Modern Steam

M

magickmaker

New member
After reading about the 5AT, and considering comissioning it from a payware builder. (barn700) I thought I'd start this thread. This is for modern steam.

So, what's the 5AT? Glad you asked.

The 5AT is a steam locomotive built on the lines of a Black 5 locomotive. However, this locomotive makes use of numerous modern advances in technology, and is expected to (when built) revolutionize the railroad industry. This is some artist impressions of the locomotive.

http://www.5at.co.uk/5ATbar7.html

http://www.5at.co.uk/5ATbar4.html

http://www.5at.co.uk/5ATbar8S.html
________
Buy extreme vaporizer
 
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barn700 said:
The part designer also produce the "Red Devil" in South Africa.

I have that too ...
Click to expand...

I ordered it last year but never received it. Is it still in production or did I get lost in the paperwork?

Here's a site on the SAR Red Devil with some of the features the 5at would have.
http://www.martynbane.co.uk/modernsteam/dw/rooinek/rooinek.html

And here's the official 5at website.
http://www.5at.co.uk/ Compare them to see some of the advances David Wardale has made.

:cool: Claude
 
Hi ya'll:

I think the biggest challenge would be to make it as efficient and easy to maintain as a diesel.

Modern technology in the form of materials, manufacturing methods, and computers would undoubtedly be required. Boiler pressures could easily be raised to 1000 psi (toward the end of steam several locos experimented with boiler pressures in the 600 psi neighborhood). The biggest problem is fuel. Coal or oil will set the environmentalists into berserker mode unless the exhaust can be made seriously clean. Nuclear ditto although it has advantages (so what if the reactor is heavy. That generates tractive effort). The only normal fuel required is water.

Great idea but I suspect difficult to achieve.

Ben
 
Of course, every power source has it's problems, like the tendency of nuclear reactors to wipe out all life within 100 miles of the explosion, if it explodes
 
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Thanks. I'm looking forward to adding more modern power to my routes.:D

collinsl said:
Of course, every power source has it's problems, like the tendency of nuclear reactors to wipe out all life within 100 miles of the explosion, if it explodes
Click to expand...
Actually, despite the myths, nuclear reactors don't detonate like bombs. A steam explosion can throw out a lot of fallout (think Chernobyl) but only in badly designed soviet reactors. American or French designs shut down too early to cause real problems. Three Mile Island was evacuated as a safety precaution, but in fact even after a complete meltdown, it didn't release enough radiation to endanger anyone inside the plant itself.
I want to use the waste fuel to run stirling engines. I should be able to generate all the power I need like that.

bendorsey said:
Hi ya'll:

I think the biggest challenge would be to make it as efficient and easy to maintain as a diesel.

Modern technology in the form of materials, manufacturing methods, and computers would undoubtedly be required. Boiler pressures could easily be raised to 1000 psi (toward the end of steam several locos experimented with boiler pressures in the 600 psi neighborhood). The biggest problem is fuel. Coal or oil will set the environmentalists into berserker mode unless the exhaust can be made seriously clean. Nuclear ditto although it has advantages (so what if the reactor is heavy. That generates tractive effort). The only normal fuel required is water.

Great idea but I suspect difficult to achieve.

Ben
Click to expand...

600 psi is pushing the technology of a Stephenson fire tube boiler. I don't know if the technology would make water tube boilers reliable in a locomotive yet. They had a tendency to rupture from the vibration.

:cool: Claude
 
Some of the problems to be overcome are:
water used for making steam, needed every 200 miles or so
damage to track
no dynamic brakes
bad power curve
much harder to drive
need for new water and fuel faculties
and probably more, electric is the way to go.
 
Let's see if I can poke around some of your post whitepass and offer a modern solution to each :). I'm not being mean, just offering suggestions.

1.) water used for making steam, needed every 200 miles or so

A: Larger tanks, or condensing units. Also, pans between the rails for high speed watering of the tender.

2.) damage to track

A: Modern alloys and computer generated rendering and design can off set this in the design phase and during construction.

3.) no dynamic brakes

A: Dynamic brakes aren't all that they seem to be. They only work at certain speeds, and not all locomotives have them now and seem do do quite fine as it is.

4.) bad power curve

A: Steam is HIGH on torque. This can be useful at lower speeds with heavier loads. Yeah, at higher speeds they kind of even out, but if you're using a steam for heavy loads and lower speeds; this won't matter. Also, with a passenger train (as the 5AT seems to be designed for) it's not as much an issue.

5.) much harder to drive

A: Modern technology can automate a great deal of the systems. Possibly even getting rid of the need for a fireman. Computers are wonderful things :)

6.) need for new water and fuel faculties

A: Depends. Water isn't that hard, many current facilities are just rebuilt steam facilities. In some cases, the water plugs are still there. Fuel is another thing. It depends on the fuel used. If fuel oil is used, it's not much an issue. As with propane. Coal is a bit more difficult. This could create problems, but none too hard to solve.
________
HOW TO ROLL A JOINT
 
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No dynamic brake?

Not quite true...

Although there are no electric motors that can be used as generators to provide drag (remember pedalling your bike with the dynamo on? :'() there have been a number of methods of using the back pressure of steam to provide drag and deceleration. Check out the Le Chatelier steam brake used on compounds for example. And as a last resort you can always throw the reverser over and apply full steam, isn't that what jet planes do on landing?



Cheers

Nix
 
I actually have some designs for modern steam locos, all compiled in a MS Publisher file. Anyone who wants them, email me.
 
Magicmaker:

You can tell the people working on the 5AT that I will donate $5 per loco sold to their cause for helping us so much getting info.

There will be 6 different liveries, smart looking too !!!
 
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In case anyone reading this wonders what's going on, the foundation that is trying to get the 5at Actually working, has offered to send me whatever I need to let barn complete the Trainz version of the locomotive.

Don't know when paul will have them finished, as I just ordered them. But, they're even sending a file of the projected power/weight ratios and speeds of the locomotive.

It's worth noting, that as designed, the 5AT will be a passneger locomotive primarily.
________
BLACK LIVE
 
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Midland said:
I would be interested to know what the "modern advances in technology" are...




Cheers

Nix
Click to expand...

Efficency... With modern technologies a steamer could reach values way over that of the '50 where the development of steam locomotives has stopped.
This means: combustion chambers, adhesion, electronic pressure regulation, controlled emissions and a lot more.
A friend of mine, that sleep with Andrè Chapelon book under the pillow, have a project of a new steamer that could reach about 3 Kw in the same volume of a small 0-6-0. On paper...
He is spending is (free) time looking for an efficient combustion chamber and simulating results of the different shapes.
 
Th fuel that will be used is much better than it would have been in the 50's too, better refining.

The cost of this project is some 3 million GBP (I think it will be closer to 6) and will be done, it will take time, but a modern rendition of a steamer will capture a few hearts I know !!!

Having a look at some of their drawings right now, and it looks impressive (even when compared to a Black 5)

I would ask for a re-calc of stresses in the small-end of the rod though, it looks a bit shy.
 
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It's designed to burn fuel oil, but with the developments in clean burning bio diesel, it's expected to only burn that as a fuel...

Also, from what I can see reading the specifications, it's a condensing unit. The large tender condenses much of the steam for reuse.
________
BustyMilf4You live
 
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Preview of 'non-standard Livery'

preview_01.jpg
 
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