Model Railroadz
- Thread starter kimo505
- Start date
East Broad Top in HOn3
Hotgrove, quite impressive I must say.
I started an MR layout some weeks back and its strictly rural Pennsylvania from back about 100 years ago. Basically just track, trackside buildings, industries and trees - lots of trees - most of them yet to be planted.
A Work in Progress and a long way to go it's just the begining for me. Most of the grading is done but I'm re-doing the grades from Cooks to Woodvale on Broad Top Mountain. My technique is to apply elevations and grades to the track and then bring the terrain up/down to match it. The grade profile follows the EBT's but elevations are only about 1/4 actual scale values due to the much shorter track length.
1st Set from Mt Union to Orbisonia/Rockhill Furnace:
EBT Mikado 18 with 10 empty hoppers and Combine 18 leaves the station on the main thru the upper yard in Mt Union.
Crossing Hill Valley Creek.
Passing siding at Adams.
Crossing Aughwick Creek at Aughwich Mills.
Approaching Shirleysburg.
Runks Road overpass with Shirley Clay Spur in the background.
Crossing Blacklog Creek.
Orbisonia Station with the roundhouse and shop complex at Rockhill Furnace.
Meadow Street.
The yard at Rockhill Furnace.
Bob Pearson
Hotgrove, quite impressive I must say.
I started an MR layout some weeks back and its strictly rural Pennsylvania from back about 100 years ago. Basically just track, trackside buildings, industries and trees - lots of trees - most of them yet to be planted.
A Work in Progress and a long way to go it's just the begining for me. Most of the grading is done but I'm re-doing the grades from Cooks to Woodvale on Broad Top Mountain. My technique is to apply elevations and grades to the track and then bring the terrain up/down to match it. The grade profile follows the EBT's but elevations are only about 1/4 actual scale values due to the much shorter track length.
1st Set from Mt Union to Orbisonia/Rockhill Furnace:
EBT Mikado 18 with 10 empty hoppers and Combine 18 leaves the station on the main thru the upper yard in Mt Union.
Crossing Hill Valley Creek.
Passing siding at Adams.
Crossing Aughwick Creek at Aughwich Mills.
Approaching Shirleysburg.
Runks Road overpass with Shirley Clay Spur in the background.
Crossing Blacklog Creek.
Orbisonia Station with the roundhouse and shop complex at Rockhill Furnace.
Meadow Street.
The yard at Rockhill Furnace.
Bob Pearson
East Broad Top in HOn3
Set 2 - Pogue to Wrays Hill Tunnel.
Crossing Aughwick Creek on the steel truss bridge at Pogue.
Town of Three Springs.
Approaching turnout for NARCO Branch to ganister rock tipple on Jacks Mt. Not historically correct at this point in time but adds a bit to the operations.
Crossing Three Springs Creek at Saltillo.
The wye at Saltillo.
Approaching Sidling Hill Tunnel.
The curve at Coles but not as impressive as the real one.
Wrays Hill Tunnel.
Bob Pearson
Set 2 - Pogue to Wrays Hill Tunnel.
Crossing Aughwick Creek on the steel truss bridge at Pogue.
Town of Three Springs.
Approaching turnout for NARCO Branch to ganister rock tipple on Jacks Mt. Not historically correct at this point in time but adds a bit to the operations.
Crossing Three Springs Creek at Saltillo.
The wye at Saltillo.
Approaching Sidling Hill Tunnel.
The curve at Coles but not as impressive as the real one.
Wrays Hill Tunnel.
Bob Pearson
Last edited:
Railwoodman
Well-known member
Bob !! first ..Your work is FANTASIC . Now ? How did you do the dual track sir or where did you get that ? But love your work on the EBT
Matt
Matt
Hello Bob and thank you,the positive feedback is much appreciated.
I can see from your early screenshots you still have a load of work to do.....i had the same problem as most MR builders do.
All i can say to you is stick with it and concentrate on one area until you are are 90% happy with it then go over it all again.
Look forward to seeing your progress......regards John.
I can see from your early screenshots you still have a load of work to do.....i had the same problem as most MR builders do.
All i can say to you is stick with it and concentrate on one area until you are are 90% happy with it then go over it all again.
Look forward to seeing your progress......regards John.
Matt and John, thank you both for your comments. Much appreciated.
I don't know of any 3-rail (off the shelf) track available in Trainz. The track I'm using in both my full scale EBT route and the MR version for ng36 and sg is by Trainboi1. It's on the DLS as individual downloads and on the TrainForge website as a single package dl. Great for jointed rail on wooden ties like that found on US ng and sg in the steam era in various rail wts, gauges and conditions. It has a few problems that will probably get solved at some point - just a little too much shine in mho and I've cloned some and made a few changes to get it to work better for me in 3-rail construction and on fill (embankments) and going over bridges basically switching from one version to another. Length of the frog and guard rail as he currently has it is a problem specifically in dg turnouts.
Re the 3-rail dg track in the MT Union shots, that's a composite of a sg track with a rails only version of the 36ng track super positioned on it. Vertices have to match up closely to keep it aligned so the common rail looks like only 1 rail instead of the 2 on top of each other. I used to use a 3-rail mesh to carry the sg and an invisible track to carry the ng but since TANE Trainz has had a nasty habit of switching the direction of the track from the one it was layed in based in part on the direction of the last section attached. For unsymmetrical track like 3-rail this can be a disaster if not caught when it happens. I've tried 3-rail procedural track made with a single ng rail as an attached spline essentially duplicating my old 3-rail mesh but it still needs a separate invisible track to carry the other gauge. The accuracy requirements in laying it are reduced because the main concern with this method is only in keeping the track to wheel interface looking ok. But within turnouts I prefer the 2 visible track solution as discussed below.
Of course N3V doesn't officially support 3-rail dg track at all. Using 2 separate tracks adds to the difficulty in laying it as vertices on the 2 tracks typically have to be very close together but it does allow the procedural track versions to from a few more parts of turnouts than it would if it were a single visible track - most important it forms 3 visual working switch blades. On most of my construction I have a ng and sg vertex at just 10.25 inches (0.2504m) apart to ensure the 2 tracks align exactly.
In procedural turnouts Trainz sees the 2 separate tracks and forms 4 switch blades (2 forming a common blade), 2 frogs and 2 sets of 2 guard rails - nice but still deficient for a dg turnout. Typical 3-rail dual gauge has 3 frogs (one often called a toad), 2 sets of 3 guard rails and 1 set of 2. For the purest you could still add in the missing parts as custom trackside objects. - similar to what some did for normal turnouts prior to procedural track. The way the common rail is formed is a problem because it never gets cut for switchways but I just don't look that closely - my eyes are getting too old for that.
Regardless of the method used you need 2 separate turnout controls to work both gauges. Adding in custom scripting assets like a junction link allows controlling both using just one of the levers. I have my own version specifically for dg junctions that is set up as an invisible junction lever and allows 1 junction to be selected to act as a master to control it.
I didn't mention that most all my track plans are designed using a cad program, CadRail. I export the vector data and convert it directly into Trainz .trk files (TRS04 format) using a script I wrote many years ago. Similar to what Transdem does now for Trainz version up to TANE SP1 - the last version it fully works with. I do like my conversion program better but I'm biased and it works without dem data as in the MR version of the EBT in the pics I posted. It produces a very accurate replication of the track plan in Trainz but is a lot of extra work if you aren't inclined to use a cad program for the layout design. Trying to modify any of the 3-rail portion of the layout manually in Surveyor is a real pain that I try to avoid. But it is possible - I made a few changes manually to the 3-rail shown in the pics.
When you compare solutions, the old double track was the easiest to make and use - outside of turnouts where it was useless. Curves were also a problem but workable. The only place I used to use it was as guides to set the correct center to center spacing and then delete it. Can still be used for that or you can make up some 3-rail procedural track for the same purpose and for general use outside turnouts. I've had problems with keeping the track directions straight and occasionally attaching another track to it but as with anything in Trainz that can change - for good or bad - in the next update.
The EBT 3-rail track had the common rail always positioned on the RHS for the railroad north direction. They used a 4-rail centered version in only 1 location - on the left track in the Mt Union engine house over the inspection pit.
Matt did I answer your question - it's just 2 tracks - 1 sg and 1 ng on top of each other with the common rails aligned.
Bob Pearson
I don't know of any 3-rail (off the shelf) track available in Trainz. The track I'm using in both my full scale EBT route and the MR version for ng36 and sg is by Trainboi1. It's on the DLS as individual downloads and on the TrainForge website as a single package dl. Great for jointed rail on wooden ties like that found on US ng and sg in the steam era in various rail wts, gauges and conditions. It has a few problems that will probably get solved at some point - just a little too much shine in mho and I've cloned some and made a few changes to get it to work better for me in 3-rail construction and on fill (embankments) and going over bridges basically switching from one version to another. Length of the frog and guard rail as he currently has it is a problem specifically in dg turnouts.
Re the 3-rail dg track in the MT Union shots, that's a composite of a sg track with a rails only version of the 36ng track super positioned on it. Vertices have to match up closely to keep it aligned so the common rail looks like only 1 rail instead of the 2 on top of each other. I used to use a 3-rail mesh to carry the sg and an invisible track to carry the ng but since TANE Trainz has had a nasty habit of switching the direction of the track from the one it was layed in based in part on the direction of the last section attached. For unsymmetrical track like 3-rail this can be a disaster if not caught when it happens. I've tried 3-rail procedural track made with a single ng rail as an attached spline essentially duplicating my old 3-rail mesh but it still needs a separate invisible track to carry the other gauge. The accuracy requirements in laying it are reduced because the main concern with this method is only in keeping the track to wheel interface looking ok. But within turnouts I prefer the 2 visible track solution as discussed below.
Of course N3V doesn't officially support 3-rail dg track at all. Using 2 separate tracks adds to the difficulty in laying it as vertices on the 2 tracks typically have to be very close together but it does allow the procedural track versions to from a few more parts of turnouts than it would if it were a single visible track - most important it forms 3 visual working switch blades. On most of my construction I have a ng and sg vertex at just 10.25 inches (0.2504m) apart to ensure the 2 tracks align exactly.
In procedural turnouts Trainz sees the 2 separate tracks and forms 4 switch blades (2 forming a common blade), 2 frogs and 2 sets of 2 guard rails - nice but still deficient for a dg turnout. Typical 3-rail dual gauge has 3 frogs (one often called a toad), 2 sets of 3 guard rails and 1 set of 2. For the purest you could still add in the missing parts as custom trackside objects. - similar to what some did for normal turnouts prior to procedural track. The way the common rail is formed is a problem because it never gets cut for switchways but I just don't look that closely - my eyes are getting too old for that.
Regardless of the method used you need 2 separate turnout controls to work both gauges. Adding in custom scripting assets like a junction link allows controlling both using just one of the levers. I have my own version specifically for dg junctions that is set up as an invisible junction lever and allows 1 junction to be selected to act as a master to control it.
I didn't mention that most all my track plans are designed using a cad program, CadRail. I export the vector data and convert it directly into Trainz .trk files (TRS04 format) using a script I wrote many years ago. Similar to what Transdem does now for Trainz version up to TANE SP1 - the last version it fully works with. I do like my conversion program better but I'm biased and it works without dem data as in the MR version of the EBT in the pics I posted. It produces a very accurate replication of the track plan in Trainz but is a lot of extra work if you aren't inclined to use a cad program for the layout design. Trying to modify any of the 3-rail portion of the layout manually in Surveyor is a real pain that I try to avoid. But it is possible - I made a few changes manually to the 3-rail shown in the pics.
When you compare solutions, the old double track was the easiest to make and use - outside of turnouts where it was useless. Curves were also a problem but workable. The only place I used to use it was as guides to set the correct center to center spacing and then delete it. Can still be used for that or you can make up some 3-rail procedural track for the same purpose and for general use outside turnouts. I've had problems with keeping the track directions straight and occasionally attaching another track to it but as with anything in Trainz that can change - for good or bad - in the next update.
The EBT 3-rail track had the common rail always positioned on the RHS for the railroad north direction. They used a 4-rail centered version in only 1 location - on the left track in the Mt Union engine house over the inspection pit.
Matt did I answer your question - it's just 2 tracks - 1 sg and 1 ng on top of each other with the common rails aligned.
Bob Pearson
Railwoodman
Well-known member
Yep you did . And one I didn't even ask . Thanks . Fantastic work . I'll try your technique and see what comes of it . The switches are going to my work around I guess . But your post have been impressive .
Matt
Matt
crazytrain
Hobo
Kickin' around on the Galesburg layout.
S. Linwood Road at Magic Chef.
Wye at the end of Dieterich Ave.
Looking west from the wye.
S. Linwood Road at Magic Chef.
Wye at the end of Dieterich Ave.
Looking west from the wye.
Ooo! Love the Galesburg layout, the GP30's and GP7u's.
Sorry for the unexpected disturbance everyone.
I am looking for fluro lighting on my mr layout and may I ask is that one of your custom built asset or least shine me a light for the kuids?
Atm, I’m adapting a much fun way of designing the room with a ceiling mounted train shelf layout. It adds an extra decor around the room on its own (I’m still on a learning curve).
If you want I can add a train shelf layout as an add-on feature to complement it into your routes.
keep up the hard working mate
I look forward to seeing further more screenies on behalf of everyone.
911TrainsRCool
@hotgrove, the layout looks phenomenal. I can’t say how much you’ve put into making dioramas that bring out the realism. You are a very talented designer and so architectural.
I am looking for fluro lighting on my mr layout and may I ask is that one of your custom built asset or least shine me a light for the kuids?
Atm, I’m adapting a much fun way of designing the room with a ceiling mounted train shelf layout. It adds an extra decor around the room on its own (I’m still on a learning curve).
If you want I can add a train shelf layout as an add-on feature to complement it into your routes.
keep up the hard working mate
I look forward to seeing further more screenies on behalf of everyone.911TrainsRCool
crazytrain
Hobo
Kinda of play on LTEX: Crazy's Truck & Electric! 
Trainmaster189
Active member
I would like to make a deal on those two Conrail diesels sir!
That's awesome crazytrain! So how many models of locomotives did you make so far?
That's awesome crazytrain! So how many models of locomotives did you make so far?