Making sense of German Catenary Signals...

[Rik3801T]

Hi All,

Currently I am building a prototypical German route in TS2010 and have been doing much research on the type of signalling used in Germany to ensure that it is as true to life as I can make it. Whilst most signalling rules are pretty straight forward and some of the signs & plates used are also quite obvious as to their meaning, it is the Catenary Signals (Fahrleitungssignale) which has me stumped! Finding their meaning is easy enough as there are plenty of websites out there which go into great detail about the meaning of these signals, aspects and the like.

But what I am stuck on is where to place such signals on the route I am building. I'm hoping there might be someone out there in the wider trainz community who knows the circumstances surrounding where certain German Catenary signals are used. Essentially, where would one see these signals in the real world?

Below, I have listed the signals which I am confused about;

Switch-off Signal. Main switch must be off when passing this signal - where would this be found and why does the main switch need to be off? Also, is this a switch in the loco?

Lower Pantograph signal - why would Pantograph need to be lowered?

Electric Line section (begins) - marks a section where trains must not stop with Pantograph raised - why?


Many thanks

 

[oknotsen]

Switch-off Signal. Main switch must be off when passing this signal - where would this be found and why does the main switch need to be off? Also, is this a switch in the loco?

I know it is not in Germany, but I see this same sign every day in the Netherlands. It is positioned right before a short bridge crossing a tiny channel.
I am not 100% sure if it is purely related to the bridge as I also know that bridge happens to be the place where section of catenary stops and another starts; they had a power outage and trains passing that bridge went from having electricity to being without power. So maybe this is ment to prevent short-circuiting an area in those situations.

Lower Pantograph signal - why would Pantograph need to be lowered?

Some (short) bridges do not have catenary. A train in at speed lowers his pantograph for a few seconds until it has passed the bridge / area without catenary and then puts them back up.
I have seen that situation many years ago. This was for a ~25 meter bridge across the harbor that could open. The bridge had no catenary to avoid problems when opening the bridge (or it simply was not installed yet). Again; this is in the Netherlands, but I imagine it being a similar situation in Germany.

Here is an example of a bridge without catenary; I think it is 33 years old. It is a Dutch engine but it happens to be pulling a German train.

 

[DaSnakke]

The first is placed just before "neutral zones", where the current is interrupted for a short distance (a few meters or so); these zones are essential so as to keep the current in phase, over long distances, the current not being able to maintain its phase throughout the catenary. After the neutral zone there is another sign, like a U, meaning the driver can reconnect the main switch.

As with the "lower pantograph", among other uses, some neutral zones require the pantograph to be lowered also, beside the main switch being turned off.

Here is an example from Romania:

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/45272305.jpg

The standard neutral zone, with the usual '_' and |_| .

 

[bekaember]

Hi Rik3801T,

Most of the European countries use the "german style" electrification, but it is better to say - if we are prototypical - the Siemens/AEG system.
It is also true for Romania, Hungary, Austria, Czect Republic, Slovakia, and most of the HS lines in the EU.
Also, signallings are quite similar...

DaSnakke's picture is an excellent example for making neutral zones.
I also brought you a pic (from the game), a hungarian neutral zone is something like this, the distance between the pylons are 60 meters (electric switches are in development):

...where the first pylon has the table:

This is table is the same like your third picture (Electric Line section begins).




Regarding your second pic (Lower Pantograph), it is used certain situatons where pantograph might be damaged (for example, a secton isolator is in bad condition, under a bridge, etc...) This table is placed ~30-50 meters before the difficulty. After it, you must place the "Higher pantograph" table.


Krisz

 

[Rik3801T]

Many thanks to you all for your posts. Now I understand what these signals mean! We don't have anything like this here in Australia for our overhead systems, so it was a real challenge to understand just how these signs (signals) were applied in reality.

 

[Enkidoh]

Actually Rik, that's not entirely correct. While that may be true with the aging Sydney and Melbourne systems, which still use circa 10kV DC transmission, the Perth suburban system uses the British 25kv AC system (which is based on the European system I presume) - even our catanery closely matches that European example shown above.

Here in Perth power transmission for the Transperth suburban rail system is broken up into sections, with neutral zones located at a few points on the system (you can tell a train is passing though a neutral zone because the motors and air conditioning abruptly cuts out while the train coasts through under inertia. As far as I know Transperth doesn't have drivers lower the pantograph when travelling through such a section though. I also presume Queensland's much larger electrified system (Brisbane suburban, northern lines and the coalfield lines) also have neutral sections in the catanery, as the QR catanery system is also derived from the British/European system.

Anyway, I hope I haven't come across as too nitpicky or snobbish (and I'm really sorry if I have) - I just wanted to clarify that point, as neutral zones similar to the example shown above are definitely used on electrified lines in Australia

 

[pfx]

Here is an example of a bridge without catenary; I think it is 33 years old. It is a Dutch engine but it happens to be pulling a German train.

I'll be very pedantic here in saying it could be considered that it is a UK loco pulling a German rake, being one of the former class 77s which the Dutch bought from BR and renamed 1500 class. Not that I particularly care.

 

[Rik3801T]

Hey, thanks for the clarification there Enkidoh! I'm happy to stand corrected on the point you made on neutral zones in Australia, especially for WA. Your comment about the presence of neutral zones being indicated to the traveller by the fact that the aircon & lighting going off periodically and then coming back on, is interesting. I've noticed this occurrence sometimes on the Sydney network from time to time, but it seems to happen when the train passes over major junctions where the overhead lines cross each other. I was not aware that it was due to there being a neutral zone. I actually thought it was due to an "air gap" which one occasionally sees where the pantograph crosses the lines or if there is a kink in the collector wire.

I guess what I was referring to in my original point about us not having such zones here in Australia was more aimed at the fact that I've not seen any Catenary signals indicating that such a zone exists on the line. That's not to say that we don't have any catenary signals at all, we may well have them, but I've just not seen any to date.

Hehehe, I had to laugh when I saw your comment about you not being nitpicky or snobbish. I think I might be guilty of that thought when I see some of the screenshots ppl post on the forums where they use generic assets when they could use more accurate representations like the choice of Telephone Poles, signals etc which are clearly US styled but which appear in a UK route! There's nitpicky for you!

 

[Enkidoh]

No problem Rik. I'm glad to have been of help. A little addition though in regards to signposting neutral sections of catenary, again, here in Australia I know Transperth signposts the start and end of neutral sections with a specific sign labelled in plain English, which would make it the Aussie equivalent of the German sign at the top of your post (if you're sharp-eyed when travelling you can see the sign pass by as it's at window level and quite large.

For instance, in this driver's eye video of a Transperth suburban service on Perth's Mandurah line leaving Esplanade station, the neutral zone sign can be spotted at 1.25 on this video (just as the train is approaching the crest onto the Narrows Bridge - you can even hear the motors cut out a few moments after passing it, before seconds later 'kicking' back in again as it passes through the neutral section) - as can be seen the section is clearly signposted so that drivers can ensure they've got enough momentum to pass through the section unpowered, especially true for that neutral zone given it's travelling up a gradient. But I'm flapping my gums here .