Make your engines stop under AI / Drivers not Stopping

[winjmoore]

It’s sad but true that many locos on the download station don’t work well under AI. The truth is these engines don’t work well only because they don’t have very good breaks (Cannot stop).
In 06 it is quite simple to use CMP to sort this out

First you need to know the name of the engine with the problem. Second you need to know the name of a well behaving engine.

Footnote I truly appreciate all the work of the loco builders. Without you the game would not be the same. I’m not dishing you just trying to make the game better for all.

The engine I have picked as needing better breaks is BR J39 LATE CREST and the engine whose breaks I’m going to use is FOWLER 4F BR BLACK.

This principle works for all

Open CMP go to the INSTALLED TAB find FOWLER 4F BR BLACK.
RIGHT CLICK on it and CLICK EDIT / EDIT IN CONTENT MANAGER PLUS.
CLICK YES to any 04 warning messages. (if nothing happened close CMP).
In front of you is ENGINESPEC and for this loco it is KUID:44090:51016. We need to find the name of this Kuid. Back to CMP and just under the INSTALLED TAB click on ASSET KUID scroll to 44090 and find 51016. It is called 4F_ENGINE. Now back to CMP (Click on name to resort all items by name) find BR J39 LATE CREST. RIGHT CLICK on it and CLICK EDIT / EDIT IN CONTENT MANAGER PLUS. In the new CONTENT CREATOR PLUS windows click on the box with 2 dots .. beside ENGINESPEC. In the top box where it says NONE use the drop down arrow and select ENGINE. In the second box scroll down to 4F_ENGINE in mine there are 2 4F_ENGINE so I pick the first one and test it if it is ok great if it is not well I’ll just change it to the second one.
Close the CONTENT CREATOR PLUS window and save changes to it. Go to the OPEN FOR EDIT TAB and Right click on each item and CLICK EDIT then COMMIT. Now go get Alistair to drive the engine with the new improved breaking. ENJOY.
PS Alistair Now feels much safer at his work

If I was going to make an english diesel work well I would use on of the Class 37's (most of the ones with the drivers heads that move). The name of the engine file is 37_trs2004

If you know of any other engines that work well under AI please feel free to add the names of the engine below.

 

[Harry_James_Potter]

Actually, the best way is to leave CCP alone...

It's really for creating new content.

If you want to change the braking rate of any loco or train or item of rolling stock, follow these nice instructions written by the idiot who did the brakes on the 37...

1. select the item of rolling stock in CMP.

2. right click on asset

3. select edit and then edit in explorer.

4. double click on the config.txt in the window that pops up.

5. change these two lines to these values.
max-accel 6000
max-decel 80000

6. save and close the config.txt.

7. go back into CMP and right click the asset again. Select edit and then go for the commit option.

Job's a good 'un and it doesn't screw up the performance of the train either...

if this don't work repeat all steps but add
max-accel 8000
max-decel 100000

regards

Harry (AKA the dreaded driver known as Alastair.)

 

[Chelsea4884]

But will it stop on a downgrade?

I have constructed an elaborate mountain layout with very little level track. most of the track sports a grade between 2% - 4%. What a surprise, when my AI trains encounter a red signal on a downgrade, they slow but do not quite stop. Left unattended, they creep through the signal, resulting in a "passed signal at danger" warning. At this point, the loco seems to be completely disabled. The only method I have discovered for recovering a loco in this state is to run another loco into it. So consequently, I have tried to incorporate elaborate warning methods and popups into the scenario to alert me when one of these creep conditions occurs. Then I select the loco, issue a "stop train" command, hit "A" to apply handbrakes (which always brings any consist to an instant standstill), then I issue a "resume schedule" and the consist remains motionless. All this rather than regrade the route.

Will this loco edit of yours help me in my ridiculous predicament?

 

[winjmoore]

Will this loco edit of yours help me in my ridiculous predicament?
YES

I have constructed an elaborate mountain layout with very little level track. most of the track sports a grade between 2% - 4%. What a surprise, when my AI trains encounter a red signal on a downgrade, they slow but do not quite stop. Left unattended, they creep through the signal, resulting in a "passed signal at danger" warning. At this point, the loco seems to be completely disabled. The only method I have discovered for recovering a loco in this state is to run another loco into it. So consequently, I have tried to incorporate elaborate warning methods and popups into the scenario to alert me when one of these creep conditions occurs. Then I select the loco, issue a "stop train" command, hit "A" to apply handbrakes (which always brings any consist to an instant standstill), then I issue a "resume schedule" and the consist remains motionless. All this rather than regrade the route.

Will this loco edit of yours help me in my ridiculous predicament?

I get so boared with flat layouts, yours sounds great...
I guess some locos misbehave and some work well and other work on all but the steapest bits.
So find the engine that works the best and find out whats its engine file name is. Then change the other engines to use the same engine files and all will be great. Note giving a 4 wheel shunter the engine of a main line express will make it behave like a mainline express.

If you thought it was a suprice when the train did not stop think how the driver felt.
Ho that's right its only a game

You say about
At this point, the loco seems to be completely disabled
Right click on the train and click stop that will give you control back. Right chich and resume schedual later if desired

 

[Alex23]

Hi Guy's,

I have just tryed Harry's entry's on my Custom USRA Light Pacific espec, and they work very well indeed.

Therefore, as the person responsible for the espec on the J39's which started this thread, I will do some more testing in 2006 and 2004 to make certain that all is well with these dcc settings, and then issue updates of my especs.

This will take a bit of time as there are other areas to be attended to, but I will keep you up to date as things progress.

For new users who have only ever known 2006, most especs on the dls are based on earlier versions of trainz, particularly with regards to the dcc settings. The physics, and therefore the AI is different in 2006 and the old settings now are having difficulty, but we will see what we can do about improving that situation.

Many thanks Harry,

Cheer's for now,

Alex.......AKA......Alex23

 

[winjmoore]

Hi Alex.
Did I say how much I like the J39.
Actually on the old forum I had an amuseing storry about how Alister had quit because he was always getting blaimed for bad driving when infact he was driving trainz with little or no breaks. He went off and lived in city life. My point is there are heaps of locos with bad scripts, as you say just copied from earlier locos.
And thanks Harry Wish I'd known that when 04 was around.
Glad there is another way to stop these trains

 

[Alex23]

Hi Alex.
Did I say how much I like the J39.
Actually on the old forum I had an amuseing storry about how Alister had quit because he was always getting blaimed for bad driving when infact he was driving trainz with little or no breaks. He went off and lived in city life. My point is there are heaps of locos with bad scripts, as you say just copied from earlier locos.
And thanks Harry Wish I'd known that when 04 was around.
Glad there is another way to stop these trains

Hi winjmoore,

Rofl , I've had my moments with Alister as well, worst was when he parked an A4 In----I Repeat---In, the Newsagents stand at Glasgow North.

I've done some more testing with the USRA Light Pacific and the new settings succesfully stopped and then held a 270t train, at a trackmark on a 2.7% gradient in both 2004 and 2006.

This is looking promising, famous last words......

Cheer's,

Alex

 

[Alex23]

Hi Guys,

For those waiting for a fix for the J39's and other especs I am involved with.

There is a slight delay as I require the permission of a third party to include a further improvement in the engines I am looking after.

I am sorry about this, but if everything goes to plan I think you will agree that the delay is worthwhile.

Cheers,

Alex

 

[Harry_James_Potter]

I, too, have had problems with stopping 3,000 tons on a 1 in 75 grade (1.33%) at a red signal even with those numbers.

This is something that REALLY does need to be fixed because I've just have to flatten all the grades bar one on the test route... It's a pain in the butt to do it but I had to do it in order to get the trains to stop.

However, I'm glad that it is working for other people.

regards

Harry

 

[Bill69]

Stopping trainz

Hi Harry,

I, too, have had problems with stopping 3,000 tons on a 1 in 75 grade (1.33%) at a red signal even with those numbers.

This is something that REALLY does need to be fixed because I've just have to flatten all the grades bar one on the test route... It's a pain in the butt to do it but I had to do it in order to get the trains to stop.

However, I'm glad that it is working for other people.

regards

Harry

Did you think to increase the AutopilotSignalDistance in trainzoptions txt before you flattened you layout? I have done this on a layout where I had trouble with the AI not stopping at a signal on a downgrade.

Cheers,
Bill69

Ps. I know you are going to say that will affect all layouts, yes it is true but if you don't have a trackmark mentioned in the commands that is too close before a signal it does not affect normal opperation.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[winjmoore]

Actually, the best way is to leave CCP alone...

It's really for creating new content.

If you want to change the braking rate of any loco or train or item of rolling stock, follow these nice instructions written by the idiot who did the brakes on the 37...

I don't agree. CCP is great for changing horn sounds and modernising stuff that dose not quite work.
I've know for along time that the BR Calss 37's The ones with the spinning fans are great at breaking.
So I tried you problem out. A class 37 with a huge load but on a steaper incline 3. At the defualt speed of 40 all was good. So I increased speed to 125, not so good. I then reduced the incline to 2% at 125mph and all was good.

So you could put in speed restrictions

The BR Class 37 Engine Spec is 37_trs2004. This works like a charm.

 

[Harry_James_Potter]

I don't agree. CCP is great for changing horn sounds and modernising stuff that dose not quite work.
I've know for along time that the BR Calss 37's The ones with the spinning fans are great at breaking.
So I tried you problem out. A class 37 with a huge load but on a steaper incline 3. At the defualt speed of 40 all was good. So I increased speed to 125, not so good. I then reduced the incline to 2% at 125mph and all was good.

So you could put in speed restrictions

The BR Class 37 Engine Spec is 37_trs2004. This works like a charm.

Re 37 engine specs. Yeah I know. I wrote it!

RE CCP... only use it for changing engine specs if you want all your locos to have the same performance (which is quite boring when running in Cab mode - No AI.)

regards

Harry

 

[Harry_James_Potter]

Hi Harry,



Did you think to increase the AutopilotSignalDistance in trainzoptions txt before you flattened you layout? I have done this on a layout where I had trouble with the AI not stopping at a signal on a downgrade.

Cheers,
Bill69

Ps. I know you are going to say that will affect all layouts, yes it is true but if you don't have a trackmark mentioned in the commands that is too close before a signal it does not affect normal opperation.

Cheers,
Bill69

Yes... It's the first thing that gets changed but it still doesn't stop the AI creeping past signals thing for me.

It was far easier to flatten the route (all bar a good 10 miles of 1 in 75 grade retained for testing purposes.) and not worry about AI drivers playing merry hell...

Other thing to note that it's very rare to find a grade of 3% on the UK railway network. Lickey Bank and the Folkestone harbour branch are the closest you'd get.

AI drivers still need instruction on the subtle art of stopping on reds on a hill.

regards

Harry

 

[Alex23]

Hi Harry,

Can I just ask.

How many engines are you using on that 3000t train?

On my "Shasta Dreaming" Route which has a long engine killing 2.9% grade of 4.5 miles, I use 6000t PFE Trains with usually Five or six large EMD diesel locos to provide breaking. (Big Boy and a Challenger are restricted to 3000t down hill on this route.)

Just out of interest.

Alex

PS CCP I never use unless I really have too, for one thing it makes the converted content unusable in 2004.

 

[Harry_James_Potter]

Hi Harry,

Can I just ask.

How many engines are you using on that 3000t train?

On my "Shasta Dreaming" Route which has a long engine killing 2.9% grade of 4.5 miles, I use 6000t PFE Trains with usually Five or six large EMD diesel locos to provide breaking. (Big Boy and a Challenger are restricted to 3000t down hill on this route.)

Just out of interest.

Alex

PS CCP I never use unless I really have too, for one thing it makes the converted content unusable in 2004.

Good point about the 2004 content thing.

I tend to allow a ratio of about 1.5hp per ton trailing load (mainly for hill climbing purposes) for locos rated for 80mph and 1hp per ton trailing load for 60mph rated freight diesels.

Thus I use 3 class 37s on my 3,000 ton trains. that's enough to get them up the hills at a stately speed and get them down the other side without problems except in AI driver mode.

regards

Harry

 

[mi-tee.mike.master]

Hurrah. Good to see this info is still available. Had to use it a long time ago to fix those maglev trains and now need it again to get a RENFE loco to co-operate.

 

[Mick_Berg]

1. select the item of rolling stock in CMP.
2. right click on asset
3. select edit and then edit in explorer.
4. double click on the config.txt in the window that pops up.
5. change these two lines to these values.
max-accel 6000
max-decel 80000
6. save and close the config.txt.

I tried this in the config file of my loco, but the accel and decel tags weren't there. I added them, and CMP said the tags were faulty. Shouldn't it be done in the enginespec config file?
Thanks,
Mick Berg.

 

[aardvark1]

To Mick Berg...

Mick,

Don't expect a prompt reply from HJP soon.

He passed away last year.

Harry was a brilliant Trainzer and whatever he posted is more than likely correct.

HJP...your still missed by many people here.

Rest In Peace Harry.

 

[Mick_Berg]

Oh dear, I'm so sorry. I didn't notice that this thread was started over a year ago.
Mick Berg.

 

[Bill69]

I tried this in the config file of my loco, but the accel and decel tags weren't there. I added them, and CMP said the tags were faulty. Shouldn't it be done in the enginespec config file?
Thanks,
Mick Berg.

Hi Mick,

There is a much easier way to stop trainz on a downgrade now, use the AI brake by whitepass kuid 58422 100218. It is invisible in driver. With steam locos place it behind the tender and with deisels place it as the first vehicle behind the loco.

Cheers,
Bill69