Line ahead is unsignalled...

[norfolksouthern37]

no train approaching means there is no train looking at this signal, in which case it wont be doing anything.

line unsignalled means it ran out of things in its tracksearch and the last thing it saw on the track was a junction. once it hits the end of that track it cannot go any further, so from the looks of your image the track ends at the junction. as i look at the code, that message should also set up a hint in driver where it will move the camera view to the junction causing this state.

there is no maximum distance a tracksearch can go as far as i know, unless there is some bug i am unfamilliar with in TS09. the signals do search for trains approaching them from the front at a fixed distance however.

 

[dricketts]

no train approaching means there is no train looking at this signal, in which case it wont be doing anything.

line unsignalled means it ran out of things in its tracksearch. this means it searched the entire length of the track spline without finding any of the items i mentioned above.

there is no maximum distance a tracksearch can go as far as i know, unless there is some bug i am unfamilliar with in TS09. the signals do search for trains approaching them from the front at a fixed distance however.

But in my scenario pictured above you can't get much more simple than that. The track stops and the spline point you see in the distance with a end of track marker. There's no more track beyond that point. There's also a speed sign between the switch and the end of track marker. If your description of how Trainz searches the entire length of the track spline is correct, the scenario in the picture would be imposable.

How can both signals in the pic read unsignalled ahead?

 

[HiBaller]

Just for the heck of it, put a bumper at the very end of the track. That gives AI something to 'see' which might change it's indication.

EDIT: Also, from the picture, your 'end of track' may well be within the radius of the switch. Move the end further out.

Bill

 

[Euphod]

I've always only signaled one track of a two track converging situation, I don't think I've had to deal with this problem.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Just for the heck of it, put a bumper at the very end of the track. That gives AI something to 'see' which might change it's indication.

EDIT: Also, from the picture, your 'end of track' may well be within the radius of the switch. Move the end further out.

Bill

the signal reading has nothing to do with what the AI sees though, it is strictly a tracksearch from the location of the signal performing the logic. i realize the situation pictured doesnt make much sense, unless the track is somehow not formed properly. there are only 2 possibilities... it runs out of track and says 'line terminates or is closed' or it runs into a junction with nothing past it. in that case, it shows 'line is unsignalled'. what doesnt make sense in the images is that the dwarf should show the switch closed against it, and it doesnt, which leads me to suspect a malformed track.

Edit: are you sure the tracks are all connected there?

 

[HiBaller]

Hmmm. Well, as Peter said, our DHR didn't have this problem and there isn't a signal to be seen in over 50 miles. We started in 2004, went to 2006, then to 2009, then to 2010 and never uncounted this problem. Very strange.

My last shot: Is that two different kinds of track? Maybe that's the problem. I doubt it, but who knows.

Bill

 

[dricketts]

the signal reading has nothing to do with what the AI sees though, it is strictly a tracksearch from the location of the signal performing the logic. i realize the situation pictured doesnt make much sense, unless the track is somehow not formed properly. there are only 2 possibilities... it runs out of track and says 'line terminates or is closed' or it runs into a junction with nothing past it. in that case, it shows 'line is unsignalled'. what doesnt make sense in the images is that the dwarf should shoe the switch closed against it, and it doesnt, which leads me to suspect a malformed track.

Edit: are you sure the tracks are all connected there?

Yes all the spline points are connected. Are you saying unsignalled reading is normal in this scenario? If I remember correctly shouldn't the signal say line terminates or is closed against a closed switch? I've now noticed I have signals reading unsignalled ahead all over the route and in other routes. I don't remember this being normal. In the pic below the AI will not proceed even though the switch is open because the signal reads unsignalled ahead.

 

[fran1]

I've copied the above track with loco but put buffers where you have a line end mark. The signal should read line clear for 1 block. Without loco no train approaching.
Signal on other track should read line unsignalled.

Remove the buffers and both signals read line ahead unsignalled with or without loco, points set either way.

 

[dricketts]

At this point I probably need to take a few steps back and try to isolate the problem by process of elimination.

After further investigation I've noticed I have "line ahead is unsignalled" on all my routes and many instances even though the signaling seems to be working properly on these routes. Is this signal reading correct for closed switches in 2009? I was thinking from back in my 2004 days that signals would read line terminates or is closed.

Thanks again for everyone's help. This is one of those puzzles that kept me up last night and I'm determined to solve it.

 

[dricketts]

At this point I think I'm going to start a new thread because this one has got a little messy.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

At this point I probably need to take a few steps back and try to isolate the problem by process of elimination.

After further investigation I've noticed I have "line ahead is unsignalled" on all my routes and many instances even though the signaling seems to be working properly on these routes. Is this signal reading correct for closed switches in 2009? I was thinking from back in my 2004 days that signals would read line terminates or is closed.

Thanks again for everyone's help. This is one of those puzzles that kept me up last night and I'm determined to solve it.

as i explained it:

there are only 2 possibilities... it runs out of track and says 'line terminates or is closed' or it runs into a junction with nothing past it. in that case, it shows 'line is unsignalled'.

looking at your last screenshot it appears normal. nothing will read past that junction until another signal is placed somewhere down the line.

 

[dricketts]

Thanks Norfolk. I had a few junction levers placed incorrectly and that was causing part of my problem. I've made those adjustments and they are now working properly.

I still have the issue with the long stretch of single track. I've placed several track side objects and built a loop but the bottom line is Trainz needs a signal somewhere along this stretch. Unfortunately this set up is a recipe for a ton of cornfield meets.

I started a new thread so maybe someone with a fresh perspective might post.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

probably a signal protecting the next junction would do it. the odds of a head on would be very low, but possible if the trains left the sidings at the same exact time. the signals guarding the mainline as in your images will never let a train out of the siding without protection at the next junction. that next signal would also provide ai trains with an option of what track to take at the next junction.

 

[45581fred]

Hi
Just a word about "half speed"

Quote "The DHR is unsignalled over it's entire length of 50+ miles. We found that the normal locos would not travels faster than half speed, due, we were told, to the lack of signals".

That may be an explanation, but there is more to it than that. Basically, any AI train that passes a signal at caution (a yellow aspect) will have its speed reduced to half line speed.
Also, when a session starts, all trains seem to be unaware of line speed, until each in turn passes a speed restriction sign. They are thus, up to that point, driven as if under a yellow (caution) aspect. In TC3 that defaults to 40mph.
It's probably something else, but if you have a train facing 15 miles of track with no speed restriction sign en route, in TC3, it will never get above 40mph, even with or without green signals.
Similarly, (TC3 at least, again) a train leaving a Portal needs at some stage to be told the line speed.

 

[SuperFudd]

In Trainz the default speed limit is 40mph. If a train passes a yellow, it will slow to 20mph, again assuming no posted limits.

 

[dricketts]

probably a signal protecting the next junction would do it. the odds of a head on would be very low, but possible if the trains left the sidings at the same exact time. the signals guarding the mainline as in your images will never let a train out of the siding without protection at the next junction. that next signal would also provide ai trains with an option of what track to take at the next junction.

They are protected. This is a very simple setup it's just 17 miles long and the Trainz signaling still can't deal with it still in 2009. The signals can not "see" the protecting signal 17 miles away. It's a major flaw in Trainz. This makes for a very high probability of cornfield meets every session using AI. I'm hoping someone has a work around.
I've tried the invisible loop, trackmarks, speed signs, but no success...

 

[norfolksouthern37]

They are protected. This is a very simple setup it's just 17 miles long and the Trainz signaling still can't deal with it still in 2009. The signals can not "see" the protecting signal 17 miles away. It's a major flaw in Trainz. This makes for a very high probability of cornfield meets every session using AI. I'm hoping someone has a work around.
I've tried the invisible loop, trackmarks, speed signs, but no success...

i am still going to go out and say that the distance has nothing to do with it. since you have shown this end, what does the beginning of the next siding look like? you said it was protected, but i have a feeling you do not define this the same way myself or the signal code does.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

they should be set up like this:

the next one they find without finding another signal to guard it will give the AI problems, that is why they stop looking. a junction indicates that a new path can be taken.

 

[dricketts]

They are set up exactly like your diagram. This is a long route, about 80 miles with 6 passing sidings that all work just fine except except the one that has the 17 mile single track stretch.

In your example below you would have a left diverging and right diverging at each end and the other 4 signals protecting the single length of track. Trainz just won't allow signals to see far enough for my example. It will take some thinking outside the box to come with a viable solution. I've found several threads on the subject but no clear remedy.

I did run across something about this rule:
Static Block Rule (Fixed Safety Block),<kuid2:104722:255001:3>

I'm going to do some experimentation with it. In theory it sounds like it might work. You would still have to place two opposite facing signals in the middle of the block on the single stretch of track but hopefully the rule will prevent cornfield meets.

 

[aking4125]

I've seen this in TS2010 Harlem line Route. Near South East towards the portal, the signal reads "Line ahead unsigalled".

The AI train stops there for a few seconds then the signal blinks green and the train goes on ahead to the portal. The setup there is the same setup as what you got.

What driver command did you use ? I used the "Navagate To" command for the AI train to get to the portal.