Licensing

[NSWGR_46Class]

Drunking Roos and now exposing the Devil - wow this thread is interesting.:hehe:

In a court of law its not often whos right or wrong but whos left standing at the end of it. Or who can afford to pay the better actor...the big boys often play on the grounds that even through your in the right there is no way you can afford to pay for a long extened court case, or often its cheaper to bankrupt you on legal fess than to pay you whats owed.

I once worked for group who had some narsty faulty equipment but it was seen as the better route just to pay work place fines to work cover when the inspectors busted them, as it was cheaper in the long run than fixing the equipment.

 

[Euphod]

Just checking in on the post count factory. It seems nothing been decided yet.

I'll check back later.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

It's an absolutely ridiculous assumption that people buy a route map for the assets

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

It happens all the time. I bought some really crap US routes for RW, only because the payware assets included in them, were needed for an excellent freeware route.

IKB.

 

[NSWGR_46Class]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

It happens all the time. I bought some really crap US routes for RW, only because the payware assets included in them, were needed for an excellent freeware route.

IKB.

But thats RW trainz works in a whole diffrent manner

May be its worth having a pole over this

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

bearcat, i am using SnC 2009 assets in a TS2010 route i am building. The reason being that the assets i am using are of better quality than anything i have seen on the DLS. Plus in a couple of instances, do not exist in a freeware version.

I have no real interest in the Settle & Carlisle, the main reason for my purchase was to be able to use the excellent locos & rolling stock on other UK routes

Also and this is of no offence at all to the creator. I would buy the Murchison assets for use in other routes, if required. But i have no interest at all in the Murchison route itself. It is a fantastic and well made creation, but is outside my railway interests.

IKB.

 

[pommie]

Did nobody read this,

OK, its time for a curve ball,
In Australia, any agreement on the use of an item must have those terms and conditions displayed so as to be able to be read before opening the package, the days of "By opening this package you are bound to the terms and conditions contained within" are thankfully gone.

Any terms and conditions which require you to open the package to read are null and void, and being free makes no difference.

Cheers David

To read these so called legal terms and conditions you must download and open the product to read them, therefor making them null and void <---- this basically means they are not worth the pixels they are printed on, end of story, and this includes the "Do not reskin" mob as well.

Please remember a lot of content is downloaded blindly, as in you download a route and the route gathers up all the content, what content was downloaded?, you really expect us to go through all our content to check for new content every time we download a route this way, then check every one for a "terms and conditions", oh please like that is ever going to happen.

What I can see with all this is creators not uploading to the DLS because they cannot have full control over their creations, and users not downloading just in case they break some ridiculous hidden term and conditions RIP DLS.

And that means back to the old days where you could be literally searching for months to find dependencies, if you have been around long enough to remember that, you know it could be the end of Trainz.

Now girls and boys to endeth this lesson I am going to remind you all that this is a hobby, meant to be enjoyed and have fun with whether you create content or routes, and whether it is freeware or payware, or just take a train for a drive,

now repeat after me,

I SHOULD BE HAVING AN ENTERTAINING TIME
not arguing and fighting like thissssssssssss

Cheers David .... who is still waiting for a Linux version ;p

 

[mrscsi]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

It happens all the time. I bought some really crap US routes for RW, only because the payware assets included in them, were needed for an excellent freeware route.

IKB.

You do know that argument makes no sense right?

So a route builder (in your mind anyway) is supposed to take a screenshot of every little asset they put into the route so that they can advertise this is what they have in the route? Am I following you correctly?:hehe:

Every person and I do mean every person who has ever approached me to build a route for them has never once asked me about what assets will be on the map. They have however ALWAYS specified starting point, finishing point and points in between.

It's inconceivable that somebody wanting a route (for example) of the Yuma Arizona area stretching between Welton and the California state line is going to buy that route because it has a certain switchbox or a certain building or certain ground texture or crossings.

They're going to be interested in that route because it runs between Welton and the state line and it's an AREA that they are interested in running a train over.

Now irregardless of your experience with railworks, I just have yet to have anybody ask me to make them a map containing specific items freely available on the DLS and that the sale of that map hinged on the placement of those items.

It just hasn't happened and probably never will, except maybe if you ever buy one of my maps I'm sure you'll be buying it for the assets:hehe:

 

[mrscsi]

bearcat, i am using SnC 2009 assets in a TS2010 route i am building. The reason being that the assets i am using are of better quality than anything i have seen on the DLS. Plus in a couple of instances, do not exist in a freeware version.

I have no real interest in the Settle & Carlisle, the main reason for my purchase was to be able to use the excellent locos & rolling stock on other UK routes

Also and this is of no offence at all to the creator. I would buy the Murchison assets for use in other routes, if required. But i have no interest at all in the Murchison route itself. It is a fantastic and well made creation, but is outside my railway interests.

IKB.

And again your argument is 180° out of phase with what we're talking about.

You're talking about buying routes that have exclusive assets. Not buying routes based on DLS assets or nonexclusive assets.

That's the epitome of apples and oranges.

 

[Barry]

I have asked for my content to be removed from the DS. Much was made up to 10 years ago, I think so won't matter too much, also mainly maritime, and doubt if it will be removed anyway.

Regardless if "just a list of kuids". I made it originally, under the impression, it was for profit free use, and probably took me hundreds of hours. So thats that. B

 

[NSWGR_46Class]

And again your argument is 180° out of phase with what we're talking about.

You're talking about buying routes that have exclusive assets. Not buying routes based on DLS assets or nonexclusive assets.

That's the epitome of apples and oranges.

I think he was replying to my question do you buy routes just for assets -- but still I see a problrm was not all the content that was in SnC2009 also in the TC series


But ===== how does any of this answer John's Question -
what do we think of his proposed Licesing

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

You do know that argument makes no sense right?

So a route builder (in your mind anyway) is supposed to take a screenshot of every little asset they put into the route so that they can advertise this is what they have in the route? Am I following you correctly?:hehe:

Every person and I do mean every person who has ever approached me to build a route for them has never once asked me about what assets will be on the map. They have however ALWAYS specified starting point, finishing point and points in between.

It's inconceivable that somebody wanting a route (for example) of the Yuma Arizona area stretching between Welton and the California state line is going to buy that route because it has a certain switchbox or a certain building or certain ground texture or crossings.

They're going to be interested in that route because it runs between Welton and the state line and it's an AREA that they are interested in running a train over.

Now irregardless of your experience with railworks, I just have yet to have anybody ask me to make them a map containing specific items freely available on the DLS and that the sale of that map hinged on the placement of those items.

It just hasn't happened and probably never will, except maybe if you ever buy one of my maps I'm sure you'll be buying it for the assets:hehe:

Wrong again and again and again.

If they want any sort of authentic route creation. Then the user will want custom buildings and lineside accessories that match the actual route.

I don't know what sort of route builder you are, not a very realistic one by the sound of things.

"Anything goes Arnold", i want realism.

As for my arguments not making sense, i think you own those rights, exclusively.

In regards payware routes using freeware assets, it's wrong...................end of.

Referenced or included whichever way you want to have it.

The payware route builder is making money out of other peoples hard work, if he goes down that road.

So morally, ethically and for the good of the freeware community. Your stance is wrong, wrong, all wrong. This is supposed to be a trainsim community, not "leechers incorporated".

IKB.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

I think he was replying to my question do you buy routes just for assets -- but still I see a problrm was not all the content that was in SnC2009 also in the TC series

A lot of the content in SnC 2009 was new and that used from TC3 was updated.

IKB.

 

[pommie]

But ===== how does any of this answer John's Question -
what do we think of his proposed Licesing

I think the powers that be have already answered that, and to be brutal the answer was 'tough', I can and do sympathize with John and I hope that the powers that be do take the content in question off the DLS as he requested, because he has stated that he has no problem with his other content being used in payware, this whole debacle has blown up because some people have something against the DLS, but it wasn't John's fault, he just made a request about certain content that contained copy-righten textures, so if the powers that be read this (and they are probably following this thread) please grant John's request and remove those items.

Cheers David ... who has just remembered that Android is Googles Linux, so a trainz for Linux just might yet come about

 

[ShadyCadence]

But that's not the situation here.

Brad,
I'm an amateur photographer looking to start my own business.

As far as the image, the photographer holds all rights. That goes for a portrait of you to an image of great grandparents made years ago. There was a major flap of people scanning old photographs to have reprinted. You actually have to contact the estate of the photographer, even if he has passed on, to obtain the rights to reprint.

The courts here in The States ruled in favor of the original copywrite holder, the original photographer. If he is passed, the estate holds those rights.

I know international laws are different. Here, though, the dollar people from the music business, movie business and even photographers lobbied big bucks to maintain copywrites. The system is skewed in their favor. Even if you host an image on Flickr, say, any unauthorized use faults toward the original uploader. They caught some companies taking those images and using them without permission. A cruise line took a hit not to long ago for doing it and had to pay big bucks after the fact from an image they took from a free hosting site. For your info, companies are trawling those sites looking to steal your images to avoid paying royalties. Just a heads up and it's only illegal if you get caught. A few hosting sites were held guilty.

If I take your portrait, I own the image. If you take that portrait to a third party printer, both you, and the printer, are liable if I find out and subject to pay restitution. Take a portrait of you with a photographer's watermark on it to Costco and see how far you get.

Dave.........

If I take a photo of my friend at the museum and your photograph shows up in the background, have I violated copyright law? I have, after all, reproduced your work without permission, and if I give a copy to my friend, I'm distributing it as well.

I build a house. One of your photographs is hanging on the wall. I sell the house fully furnished "as is", including your picture. Do I owe you something, even though I got the picture free? Or does your photograph become ancillary to the transaction?

A more accurate description would be same situation, but instead of the picture I write on the wall: "Dave's picture '______' goes here."

Think you got a case?

 

[mrscsi]

Wrong again and again and again.

If they want any sort of authentic route creation. Then the user will want custom buildings and lineside accessories that match the actual route.

I don't know what sort of route builder you are, not a very realistic one by the sound of things.

"Anything goes Arnold", i want realism.

As for my arguments not making sense, i think you own those rights, exclusively.

In regards payware routes using freeware assets, it's wrong...................end of.

Referenced or included whichever way you want to have it.

The payware route builder is making money out of other peoples hard work, if he goes down that road.

So morally, ethically and for the good of the freeware community. Your stance is wrong, wrong, all wrong. This is supposed to be a trainsim community, not "leechers incorporated".

IKB.

I just flagged your post, I'm getting sick and tired of being called whatever it is you want to call me, and then you go on to lecture others about the COC

For some reason you think that yours is the only opinion that matters. Got news for you Junior, I don't care what you think, not too many other people care what you think, if you want to be an imbecile and call people names to try to somehow bolster your credibility knock yourself out.

I'll tell you what kind of route builder I'm going to be, a successful one

I have turned down at least 50 offers from people wanting me to build maps for them, but you know what? Not anymore, I'm going to build maps for them, and I'm going to include one asset of yours on every map.

So what are you going to do about that? Whine some more? Cry a little bit? Call me a few more names?

I'm also going to put a text instruction sheet telling people that they can use control alt a and click on your asset and make it go bye-bye:hehe:

Anyplace I need to put a reference to a pile of junk, I'll place one of your assets from the DLS.

So if you want to be nasty, I'm your huckleberry

As far as my stance being wrong, it's the same stands as Auran/N3V, so it appears you're the one that's wrong you just don't realize it yet.

 

[pommie]

If I take a photo of my friend at the museum and your photograph shows up in the background, have I violated copyright law? I have, after all, reproduced your work without permission, and if I give a copy to my friend, I'm distributing it as well.

I build a house. One of your photographs is hanging on the wall. I sell the house fully furnished "as is", including your picture. Do I owe you something, even though I got the picture free? Or does your photograph become ancillary to the transaction?

A more accurate description would be same situation, but instead of the picture I write on the wall: "Dave's picture '______' goes here."

Think you got a case?

Here we go again with another analogy that just does not apply,
in your analogy you are taking a photo of the museum that contains his photo, no problem, this has been allowed for or there would be a NO PHOTOGRAPHS sign, however if you were to zoom in and take only his photo, then yes you have breached the copyright.

As for the house sale, it would depend on the conditions when you bought the photograph, if there was nothing about resale then yes you have, because the copyright owner (usually the one that pressed the shutter) could possibly prove loss of income, he/she could of sold your buyer one.

Off topic warning, with photographs it depends on what the focus (pun intended) of the photo is eg: I take a photo of a tourist train and someone is leaning out, to publish this photo I do not need a model release from that person, even though they can be easily recognized, because I took a photo of the train, however if I put that person in the center of the photo I would need a model release, because I took a photo of them leaning out of the train, see the slight but defining difference, thats why using photo's in an analogy is dangerous, there are so many laws regarding them, so if you use them again please do some study of photographers rights so as to get it right.

Oh man, I have run out of popcorn and wine aaAARRrrggggghhhh

Cheers David

 

[pommie]

Well said mrscsi

Cheers David

 

[Beattie]

This thread needs to be shut down soon, I am going to tell a moderator to close this thread. People are arguing over stupid things thread is closing soon hope you have goten what you wanted to in.

The upset side of Beattie :'(

 

[pommie]

This thread needs to be shut down soon, I am going to tell a moderator to close this thread. People are arguing over stupid things thread is closing soon hope you have goten what you wanted to in.

The upset side of Beattie :'(

Hey there settle down, you'll give yourself an ulcer like that.

And please don't shout, you'll wake the wife, if you do I am putting her in here, and you think you have troubles now.

Nobody has mentioned your name so whats your problem, you don't like the thread then just leave and not enter it again, but calling for, sorry demanding that a mod close it because you don't like it is very immature, and please look up the word forum, it includes heated debating, and while this debate has got a bit hot at times, it all good, and if I am honest a bit of fun in a sadistic kind of way, but the call to lock/delete this thread is not yours to make, thankfully.

Now you have read this you have my permission to leave this thread and never come back, bye bye.

Cheers David ...... who has found some popcorn but no wine ah well better than nothing.

 

[Willem2]

Don't close it yet, just hopped out to get an other 6 pack of stubbies.:hehe: :hehe:

Still waiting for the popcorn.

Cheers,

Bill.