Junction lever radius

[sniper297]

The plot thickens!

This is interesting;

First part I did as you said, he pulls up but don't change the switch to the siding. Try to throw it myself and it's locked. I note your profile thingamy says TS2009 and the build number on this test route is 3.0, could this be a glitch that affects TS2010 but not TS2009? IOW whether something works or not depends on which version you try it in?

 

[sparky15]

09 with SP1. The junction controller on S2 sets S1 opposite of what it is. When the AI sets S2 for the main S1 goes opposite for diverge.

The AI grabs S1 for a second to see the main is blocked, but lets it go right away. I can sit there and play with it all day. Even after I pull into the siding, he'll throw it for the main, pull through, then set it back to diverge.

Once he throws S2, do you get a diverge at all at S1? It looks like he already set S2 back to diverge. It didn't work here at all but I wonder if you use another controller at S1 to control S2 if it would work in 10.

Odd that first part works in 09.

Dave....

 

[Dermmy]

Tried it in 10 SP3, same result as Sniper - AI train comes to a stand at locked junction, game over.

I do not recall a previous occasion in an earlier version where a player train locked a junction against the AI. But then i don't drive all that much and might just have been lucky...

 

[sparky15]

One other thing I see.

When it doesn't work, like between S3 and S4, the AI will throw the switch to it's path, inch forward, the switch and signal will switch back giving a red, he'll stop. Does that about 6 times before it all locks up completely. Wait for a minute and it all starts over again. In between that switching back and forth I can control the switch, but not hold it long enough to get through it until it locks up. Like a tug of war.

Dave......

 

[sparky15]

Disregard, screenshot didn't load.

Dave.....

 

[sparky15]

Played some more with it. While I'm at a stand off at S3, I can switch S3 by switching S4. I still can't hold it long enough to clear the stand off and get into the passing siding. The junction controller is on S4, controlling S3.

I also noticed that when the AI comes out of the portal, it switches S3 then S4. Does the same going towards S2. It switches S1 first then S2. For some reason it holds S3 but not S1. All signals and stopping distances are the same.

I'm going to extend the base board and move the portals farther away. If I can get both sidings to work the same one way, I'll try and tackle the other direction.

Dave....

 

[trev999]

Another angle

Hi Sniper297 and other interested parties

When driving a Player train the fun is in setting a switch ahead of the train and then opening the throttle and driving. It is not so enjoyable if you have to issue driver commands on the schedule to accomplish your task. If the AI grabs your switch after you have set it then disaster usually follows.

In order to prevent that from occuring you need to know the names of trackmarks and junctions ahead. Much like driving any vehicle, you need to know where you are going and how to get there. You also need to signal to other drivers what your intentions are.

I am using TRS2004 and in that version "Control Junction" and "Free Junction" are custom commands created by Atila Barut (kuid 131986:180153 and -180154). I don't know if you have a built-in version in TS2010.

Control Junction requests a permit to occupy a junction. When the permit is granted the junction is switched to the desired direction and locked.

Before moving your player train forward, issue a "Control junction" command for the switch at the far side of the single-track section (S2 in post #25). This requests a Junction Permit and if it is available will lock the junction in the direction you request. After moving through the junction, issue a Free Junction command to allow the AI train to proceed.

I have written a modified version of Control Junction which automatically frees the junction after your train leaves it, saving having to do that chore. If the train does not cross the junction then you need to release it with Free Junction.
The new command is not quite ready yet and I am looking at making some more improvements, but in the meanwhile would you like to try the original commands as quoted above and report on their effectiveness?

Trevor

 

[sniper297]

I'll try anything once, I'm a "Wonder what happens if I do THIS? FIRE IN THE HOLE!" kinda guy. :hehe: Can't guarantee I'll use it even if it works, with a lot of double to single to double track junctions it sounds kinda complicated to have to stop and issue commands before entering any single track section. Might be something to look at tho, we're screwing around with many many junctions in small areas for testing purposes, but on the real thing if you have heavy traffic you would normally double and triple track as much as possible using single track sections only where needed. With MSTS PO&N I tried to make a valid reason such as bridges and tunnels every place there was a single track squeeze point, for an actual route I would apply the same paradigm to Trainz since we already get enough of that "model railroad simulator" criticism.

 

[trev999]

Hi Sniper - The problem with modifying the AI behavior is this:
Ok, the AI arrives at a trailing junction and can't get access to the track ahead. It can't "see" that your train is on the track because the switch is set against it. So it tries to set the switch. If that was unsuccessful, it needs to wait some random number of seconds and then try again.

Normally an AI train requests a permit to use a junction but not so Player trains. If your train happens to be half-way across the junction when the switch is thrown then a derailment will occur unless you have an exclusive permit to use the junction.

How are you changing the switches? Are you using the J key or clicking on the arrows? The way I see it, Auran needs to make a switch locking mechanism that works from the J key and unlocks automatically if your train moves away from the junction. So if you use the J key then the junction locks for other trains but you can still change it.

That's how my new command works but instead of pressing the J key you just need to click on the driver schedule and select the direction and the junction name. The command either completes immediately or hangs until the junction permit is granted.

In the new command I set up an option to change the junction immediately in front of the train, no matter what it is called and this worked very well, I have just not got it exactly as I want it yet. Another option is to set and lock the junction after the one in front of the train. That will be restricted to operate only if the junction immediately in front of the train is a trailing one and will set that junction to point to my train.

Please let me know if the Control Junction command works for you.

Trevor

 

[sparky15]

Trevor,
I tried about every rule I can find but still no go.

What I'm finding on that little test route, the first train through does exactly what it's supposed to do. It doesn't lock any switches at all anywhere on the route. Any other AI trains lock everything up. I can't repeat what worked the first time with any subsequent train after. This is in 09, haven't tried an older version.

I did have some success with a trigger multiple signal rule. It gave me a red over red at a diverge, which I ignored and took the siding treating it like a diverge signal, and another red at the 04 signal protecting the main. In other words, I got out of the AI's way. If there were a rule to trigger a diverge signal instead of a stop without affecting the switch it might work. Still have to control the switch yourself but at least you'll get a signal to take the siding.

Getting out of the AI's way is the only thing I can see at this point.

Dave.....

 

[sparky15]

Alright Jim, try this.

Under the edit session drop down and Driver Commands, check if you have SWD Drive rule. Make sure it's checked. It tells the AI driver to follow signals without setting junctions.

I set that little test out with junction controllers on all junctions to make sure whenever S1 was left, S2 was right. Same with S3 and S4. I added that SWD command and then navigate to the portal. The AI doesn't touch any junctions, just follows what's already set. If I set S1 for the main, S2 sets for diverge, wait for the first train and it takes the passing siding and stops. Pull through and set S2 for the main, S1 sets for diverge and the AI goes on to the portal.

Same for S3. Set it ahead for my path on the main and found the second AI sitting on the passing track waiting. Pretty cool.

Dave.....

 

[sniper297]

I'm going thru your previous posts trying to figure out what "SWD" is, don't turn up anything in the content manager search either. Methinks this is a bug that needs to be reported;

http://forums.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?t=295425

Note my "yardwork" test route session uses UncoupleAtTrackMark,<kuid:61392:1076> but that does NOT show up as a dependency for the session - if an AI driver requires a given rule to carry out his commands in a session, then that session SHOULD list the rule as a dependency.

 

[sniper297]

Confirmed bug;

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=61526

Until they fix that, anyone creating a session that requires custom rules needs to list those rules in the description since the content mangler errorcheckerupperthingamajigger fails to catch those. Otherwise it's a crapshoot whether the session works or not and the end user has to download every custom rule he can find to make it work.

Other item, help out us newbies - when you're telling us what we need, spell out the full name and KUID, instead of saying "get the trackmark rule" or "CAT rule", say "Couple At Trackmark,<kuid2:57145:81100:1>" so we know what you're talking about if we haven't been using Trainz for 87 1/2 yearz.

 

[sparky15]

Me thinks I'm the bug

It's STW Drive, kuid 2:30671:80002:1. Built in in 09 so 10 should have it.

Just a driver command to tell the AI to not switch junctions but follow signals only. You have to make sure the paths are set for the AI but no stand offs at junctions. And, skip the junction controllers. Without a clear path through a pasing siding, the AI will just sit there.

It wasn't enabled by default in Surveyor so I had to go into Edit Session, click driver command, edit and scroll down and tick the box next to it. Bunch more in there not enabled to play with.

Dave.......

 

[sniper297]

Sparky bugzapper!

Do they still have those things with the ultraviolet light that attracts bugs and electrocutes them?

Anyway, that is indeed built in to 2010, however;

The session that came with your route don't have it checked on. I'll try checking it on and see what happens, wasn't the "autopilot" command supposed to do something similar? IIRC the autopilot set the AI to just obey signals without throwing any switches at all, problem there is he has to have the entire route set for him and the player needs to screw around with "remember to shut the door behind you" every time he throws a switch. Would be really helpful if some of these rules came with descriptions and instructions.

 

[sparky15]

Yep, still make them, except here in corn field corners the mosquitoes consider them romantic lighting.

That session won't have that enabled, just found it a while ago. Have to add it to the AI driver commands since I didn't. Shutting the door behind you or setting junctions ahead may be a pain but beats getting out of your train to drive the other.

I'm wondering if you could use this in conjunction with other commands. Drive across a route on the main, get to an industrial area or yard then switch to normal where it controls the switches to set off cars or what have you. When done, switch back to the STW Drive to head back out.

Like I said, pretty new to this part of the game. Some interesting commands that look like you could make that work. I'm going to have a look at some of the path control rules and see if I can't whip up a bigger test route.

Still bugs me why the first AI through worked before but everyone after that didn't.

Dave......