Jumping Track Ends

S

SharkNose

Active member
Hopefully I'm wording this right so as not to be confusing...

I have a section of track already on the ground. I've picked up another track end with my mouse and am moving it to connect to the track end that's already there. When I let my mouse button go to drop my end of the track, why does the track end on the ground jump to attach to the end I just released? I think it should be the other way around. The track end on the ground is where I want the spline point. The track end I am moving should jump to the track end already on the ground.

I have some screen shots ready if I am not explaining the situation and question correctly...

Thanks.

Andrew
 
I want them to join. I want the track end I am moving to be attracted to, move and join with, the track end already in place when I let go of it. :)

I do not want the track end already in place to be attracted to, move and join with, the track end I am waving around with my mouse when I let go of it. :(
 
Try running a temporary connection between the vertex of the track you want to move and the one you want to stay put, without moving either. Then delete the vertex at the connection with the track you want to move. The track you want to move will snap to the position you want.

Bernie
 
This sounds really wierd and I've never seen it happen. Unless you hold down the shift key, usually the vertex (spline point) will join to another one nearby, often the wrong one.

Try holding down the Shift key and see what happens.

Also it's often difficult to get a new piece of track to "stick". This is because there are other spline points nearby. Holding the Shift key will force the spline point to stick.

But what you are describing is very strange. Sorry I don't have a useful suggestion.

Mick Berg.
 
That's why I'm wondering about iPad, I can't duplicate in TS12.
The tracklaying "helper" (cough cough improbable pretzel bender) will bend existing track to what it thinks is a proper transition curve (HA!) when the second track spline snaps to it, but the vertex for the first track always remains in the same place.
 
Here's some pictures...

Ok, here's the exact situation:

This is in TS12. I'm using bekaember's wonderful track spacing objects to get my straights perfect.

TLQ001_zpsda293f8b.jpg


After placing one of his object's, the track will snap (I should have used this word instead of jump) to one of his attachment points when I click near it to lay the track. Then after snapping all my track, I zoom in to each spacer object.

TLQ002_zps9832b476.jpg


Then I remove the spacer object.

TLQ003_zps4949cfa8.jpg


Next I grab track end "C" and move it down to attach to track end "B", which has not been moved from it's perfectly spaced position.

TLQ004_zpsa49df7fe.jpg


Track end "B" (the perfectly positioned end) will snap to my imperfectly moved track end "C".

TLQ005_zps98e4b031.jpg


As you can see, the spline point has moved upwards slightly. Directly up or down won't hurt my spacing, but it may snap left or right out of position, depending on how well I can let go of the mouse button releasing track end "C".

I'd like it to behave like this: my track end "C" should snap to the perfectly placed track end "B" (just like track snaps to the attachment points of bekaember's spacing object).

I'm probably nit picking with a few scale inches, but the better the track is laid, the better the trains will run.

Thanks for your replies.

Bernie, I'll give your idea a try. It sounds like it will work.

Andrew
 
Does MB_16m_finescale_double_4m, and other multi-track work in TS12 ?

I use that for straightaways ... and single track on curves ...then I later on replace the MB_16m_finescale_double_4m track, with single track.
 
Personally I find laying my mainline track in 2 track, (or 3t or 4t) then once completed, I select single track, delete 1 spline section and connect the single track in the correct direction replacing the 2 track and repeat for the rest of the line, I find it keeps the radii of the 2 track with consistent spacing between the lines. I must admit though, I've always created fictional layouts and so precise measuring has only ever been needed in the yards - but same again, a 4t section, (or multiples of) laid in one section the length of the yard, then create additional splines to ensure it's straight from one end to the other (again replacing the 4t with single track to ensure the track is running in the right direction). You may find this technique helpful if your doing a long straight, use your ruler and the gridlines to determine the start and end points then add your splines in to keep it perfectly straight -it would remove the need to accurately play around with each spline.
 
Hi SharkNose - I understand exactly what you mean, but my experience is the exact opposite of yours! I just spent a fair while in Surveyor deliberately trying to get the 'target' vertex to move but the new piece always snaps to the target location. The way I build yard ladders involves laying, deleting and re-laying track and if the target vertex snapped to the 'waving about' vertex my system just wouldn't work! I tried about a dozen different tracks at random plus mixed track joins and in every case the target vertex stayed put. I have had a quick look at any Surveyor option that might change the behaviour, but can't see a likely culprit. TRS10 44088 Native.....
 
Bernie's suggestion fit the bill! :clap: For whatever reason, moving a track spline point has different snap properties than when adding a piece of track. In my example pictures above, instead of trying to move track end "C" to track end "B", add a section of track between "B" and "C". The snap behavior is how I want it. Adding a point always snaps to another already existing point (unless you press "shift" as mentioned by other posters above). Just be sure to add the small section of track in the same direction as the existing track. After the addition, then remove the additional spline point. The existing track positioned by the spacer remains exactly in place using this method!

I haven't used the multi-track pieces yet for the reason of track direction, but using them as spacers and replacing them later is an idea too. Thanks for everybody's comments and suggestions.

Andrew
 
They say that laying track direction, is an old wives tale, a myth ... But as I am a perfectionist ... I later on replace all my tracks, with tracks laid in the correct direction of travel.
 
It is a myth, the only thing it affects is the default direction of trains or track objects on that ribbon, the AI trains pay no attention to it.

Back to the original, now that I understand what we're actually talking about;

1. Lay track, start NEW track section, when it connects to previously laid track the original vertex stays put.
2. Lay two or more track sections, then MOVE one of the track sections to connect to others, the ones being connected to are so eager the vertex jumps when the one being moved gets close to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qGB8HY0qUo

It's more obvious in the second test since the two tracks are aligned along one of the grid lines, when I move the center section over they snap across and ruin the alignment. Video was in TS2010 rather than TS12 so apparently this has been around for a while.
 
sniper297 said:
~snip~ ..so apparently this has been around for a while.
Click to expand...

Yes, it has.

In TRS2004, adding a new piece of track will preserve the spline point to which it is snaps.

Connecting two existing points will pull the track off line, unless:
1. You are directly overhead.

2. Zoomed right in so that the compass ring exactly overlaps the "same fit" spline circle (preferably with a low –surveyorfov entry in trainzoptions for a closer viewpoint).

3. Have a very steady hand.


Cheers
Casper
:)
ps Feel free to now add a further take on the name - SharkKnows:D
 
Not to get OT with the direction, but lets say you have a single track line, then add a passing side in the opposite direction, but WITHOUT direction markers, like this:

Code: 
>-A-------------M-------------B->
      \--<------S------<--/

Trains from A to B will tend to stay on the Main (M) as expected. More typically though, when traveling from B to A they WILL use the siding (S) regardless of whether there is an opposing train anywhere down the line or not, simply because the track was laid in that direction instead. Not a big deal, right?

Try converting the siding to a Wye -
Code: 
->--A----------M---------B-->-
        \--<--   --<--/
              \ /
               |
               S   <-S's directionality points downwards.

Again, no direction markers, no opposing trains (only consist on route to test the theory) but trains from B to A would, less frequently than before but still possible, drive from B down the Y into S, then back from S towards A and continue on their route backwards, but would never do this heading from A to B.

What I don't know is mixing directionality within the same single-line stretch. But I do know that if given the opportunity of taking a track facing the correct direction (indicated by which way the trains and trackmarks face initially) they will take it over the shortest route if that route is "facing" the wrong direction, and again, this is all without direction markers. (Even more off topic, this direction of tracks becomes even more complicated when inserting spline points, as it will sometimes change that directionality... but anyway.... enough off topic, back to the track end movement)
 
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There is a setting or something causing this issue. As stated previously my whole track laying technique - particularly on yard ladders - relies on inserting track lengths between already-laid lengths of spline track. I have never - in any version - had the existing track 'jump' to the new track. The new track has always snapped to the existing vertex with no special effort made, just click anywhere in range....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjNeoj_3HiA

Andy

OT @ ctclark while not questioning that something is causing the behaviour you describe, the direction in which the track was laid is not the issue. As Snipe has pointed out track 'direction' governs only whichever way trains face when placed and which side of the track attached items default to. In actual fact it is almost impossible to lay track in a consistent 'direction'. Every time you insert and delete a vertex the 'direction' reverses. So unless you get everything exactly right first time the 'direction' is constantly changing anyway as you tweak the track layout.....
 
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Andy,

Your YouTube example shows a new piece of track being connected to an already laid piece.

The problem (if I've understood the OP correctly) arises when two, already laid, pieces are joined.

This is what the OP is faced with when the track guide object is deleted; creating a gap which needs to be filled.

The foolproof solution is to place a new piece of track in the gap created by the deleted object (and then perhaps delete the resultant unnecessary spline points), but this can be very time consuming over several miles of track.

It’s quicker to drag the two together, but the penalty is the risk of movement. It can be done (as per my above post #15). There is no guarantee that it will be spot on, but very acceptable result can be obtained with a steady hand.

Cheers
Casper
:)
 
Andy

From my own experience with map-building, I have discovered that two yellow circles joining together will always jump! However, a white circle will never disturb a yellow one. If I understand your original query correctly, the answer is to temporarily uncheck your 'fixed-track vertex height' option, then touch the spline point that you don't want to move with the 'adjust spline height' selected.

Regards

Alam
 
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