JR Signal Offsets are a Nuisance on the Main Line

JonMyrlennBailey

Well-known member
It can screw up AI operations. It can hold up trains unnecessarily and make visible signals stuck on stop forever.

I just discovered that trains were stopping about two city blocks back from a signal near a switch that would stay stuck on double red.

AI was able to set the switches ahead correctly but still the damn signal wouldn't change.

Inspecting the track in Surveyor, I noticed the strange arrow object on the track and removed it. Now AI trains run pass this junction as normal with a green over red light.


The moral:

Keep these arrow-shaped gadgets off your AI-driven main line to reduce trouble.
 
It can screw up AI operations. It can hold up trains unnecessarily and make visible signals stuck on stop forever.

I just discovered that trains were stopping about two city blocks back from a signal near a switch that would stay stuck on double red.

AI was able to set the switches ahead correctly but still the damn signal wouldn't change.

Inspecting the track in Surveyor, I noticed the strange arrow object on the track and removed it. Now AI trains run pass this junction as normal with a green over red light.


The moral:

Keep these arrow-shaped gadgets off your AI-driven main line to reduce trouble.

Thanks for the lesson :). But I really do not use invisible objects such as that JR offset signal, except ATLS stuff, I need to use that stuff

But I think it's called offset for a reason, it's because it's for offset lines
 
It's not a "trouble" thing caused by a weird arrow shaped thingy.
The Signal Offset is just that - it offsets the next signal ahead, essentially a mirror. I've found two uses for it, one is the advertised use by NS37, the other is one that I think he's said it's not really meant for... Both of which are intended to make for prototypical looks while appeasing the Trainz AI.
Say you have some smaller yard tracks which do not have dwarf signals at the ends in real life but you need to have it in order to keep your AI from complaining about unsignalled track (or you want them to wait at the end of the yard track until all switches have been aligned for them to reach the end of the crossovers), you place Offsets at each one - it will act as a red signal if it does not see a signal ahead of it to copy, once it does it will copy that signal. The reason for this is that AI would set a turnout or 2 ahead, travel a little bit, set the next, etc... If it got to a switch which was locked or whatever, it would sit in the middle of these crossovers/ladders and block all sorts of things while waiting for the switch to clear. Using the offset holds the train in its own track until there is a clear path to the signal and that signal was something other than Stop. I'm guessing this is what the offset was used for here, and likely what was happening was that the AI wasn't tryng to switch junctions far enough ahead to get the offset to clear the Stop... It might be annoying but it's closer to real life because if there was a locked junction ahead that wouldn't let it completely clear the siding or whatever it was sitting on, it will sit there instead of moving a little and then blocking other junctions because it's stuck.

I've been known to use it from time to time where a signal prototypically sits on the far side of a grade crossing and you want the train to stop and not block the crossing if the signal is red. In real life engineers know better than to do this and will stop their trains before the crossing. In Trainz AI, they will sit there and creep creep creep on the signal until they're so close they're practically under it... (annoying with signal bridges because they stop so unrealistically close that it bugs me but I ignore that one). The problem, and NS37 will probably tell you the same thing, is that it is typically seen as an extra "block" when calculating so sometimes you end up with unrealistic block signal indications.
 
However, if you ever should find your AI train is hopelessly stuck behind a red signal that will never change, the junction block is perfectly clear ahead and your investigation in Surveyor shows an Offset object on the main line at a crossover or junction where the train was unreasonably held up, it behooves you to remove the Offset and do an AI retest. It seems as if Offsets may confuse AI when not placed correctly or properly applied on your route. If an AI driver must creep and creep toward a signal to make progress, so be it.

Sometimes in my car I get stuck at a long red light with no other traffic in sight. Sometimes creeping up on the light or rocking the car back and forth helps the light to change green.
 
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Question about general AI Trainz: When an AI train is hopelessly stuck behind any red signal, is there any way to exit AI, and regain control manually ... or is the session hopelessly ended, with no way out of AI control ?
 
Question about general AI Trainz: When an AI train is hopelessly stuck behind any red signal, is there any way to exit AI, and regain control manually ... or is the session hopelessly ended, with no way out of AI control ?

Select command Stop Train. If the red signal doesn't change, do what's needed to change it, such as moving the train or flipping points. Then select command Continue Schedule.
 
But you can not throw the switch as the AI train is locking the switch ... and you can not move the train, as you can not get off the train, and you can not back up the train manually, as the AI train was stopped by itself, and you can not abandon schedule ... It seems that AI is locked without escape
 
But you can not throw the switch as the AI train is locking the switch ... and you can not move the train, as you can not get off the train, and you can not back up the train manually, as the AI train was stopped by itself, and you can not abandon schedule ... It seems that AI is locked without escape

If Stop Train or Abandon Schedule are not working properly for you then you have a much more serious problem than AI getting confused.

Stop Train will release points that were under AI control for that train. It will not release points where the train is within the trigger for the points - that's why you may need to move the train. Often the train that needs stopping is not the one at the red signal - it's some other train that is causing the signal to stay red. Stop that other train and the signal will change.
 
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