Jerky Movements in Surveyor

[jrfolco]

I recently resumed work on the Harpers Ferry to Baltimore route, which was originally started in TS2010, however, I decided to switch construction to TS12 (Build 61388) to take advantage of its built in content.


For some reason, working in Surveyor is not smooth as TS2010. It is very difficult to move or rotate content, or to move splined objects such as roads or track. I have to click several times before the road or track will attach to the terrain.


When attempting to move an object, I have to drag the pointer quite a distance before the object starts to move. If I try to rotate an object, it will just sit there and suddenly rotate 180 degrees or more and then I have to rotate the other direction to get it to line up. Holding CTRL helps a little.


I've switched between Direct X and Open GL, but that doesn't seem to help. I even re-installed Trainz, and it seemed to smooth things out for a short time, but that was only temporary. If I go back into TS2010, which is on the same drive, it works smoothly. I'm running a GTX 980 with the latest drivers.


I also have TS12 on another computer and I'm having the same problems, so I don't think that it is computer related. It has a GTX 570 with the latest drivers, and TS2010 also works smoothly.


Another problem I'm having is with disappearing roads and track. After working on the route for a while, sections of roads and track start to disappear. This occurs not only in Surveyor, but in Driver as well.


I've done quite a bit of work in TS12, so at this point there's no going back and starting all over. I still have about a year or so before the route is completed.


I've never done any route construction before in TS12. Everything was created in TS2010, and tried out in TS12 to make sure it worked before making it available for downloading. I'm wondering if there is some adjustment to TS12 that will correct this problem. Any help would sure be appreciated.


Thanks,


Joe

 

[cascaderailroad]

Perhaps in Ctrl Alt Del (TaskManager) something is running that could be shut off

I usually unplug my Ethernet cable when in Surveyor, and work offline

 

[JCitron]

There are a number of things which can cause TS12 or any program to run poorly such as stuff running in the background, or low disk space. However, TS12 maybe doing a data validation if this is a fresh install. When this occurs, the performance will drop right through the floor, making every mouse-click a slog fest until it completes.

To find out if this is going on, you need to enable the show database processes in the developer's tab in the settings. If you click on the TADDaemon console, you will see validating assets decrementing down one-by-one. This process really makes TS12 perform horribly.

 

[Robert3a0]

I would look closely at the amount of free disk space you have available. With your graphics card, which I assume has an equally powerful CPU, TS 12 should not be causing any problems. Something is chewing up your cache space.

 

[captainkman]

I've been experiencing the same stuttering in Surveyor as the OP and I've found that it seems to only appear on certain routes, and is consistent throughout that route. I wouldn't discount data validation or similar, though, since I have been moving a lot of content from TS2010 to TS12 to finally get it into T:ANE.

It surely cannot be a lack of memory on my system as my computer has 24GB of RAM and nearly 1TB of free hard-drive space.

Kieran.

 

[clam1952]

What build of TS12? if lower than 49922 that could be the cause and again if in between 49922 and 61388 could also be contributing to the problem. If TS12 is on a mechanical disk and not SSD defrag the Trainz drive. TS12 after an install or patch can be heavily fragmented.

Vanishing Track etc is a problem with TS12, I find flipping to wire mesh view and back usually restores things in surveyor.

 

[jrfolco]

cascaderailroad

Perhaps in Ctrl Alt Del (TaskManager) something is running that could be shut off
I usually unplug my Ethernet cable when in Surveyor, and work offline
​

Disconnecting the ethernet cable doesn't seem to help.

JCitron

There are a number of things which can cause TS12 or any program to run poorly such as stuff running in the background, or low disk space. However, TS12 maybe doing a data validation if this is a fresh install. When this occurs, the performance will drop right through the floor, making every mouse-click a slog fest until it completes.

To find out if this is going on, you need to enable the show database processes in the developer's tab in the settings. If you click on the TADDaemon console, you will see validating assets decrementing down one-by-one. This process really makes TS12 perform horribly.
​

Checked the Taddaemon console. No activity

Robert3a0

I would look closely at the amount of free disk space you have available. With your graphics card, which I assume has an equally powerful CPU, TS 12 should not be causing any problems. Something is chewing up your cache space.​

I have 435 GB of disk space available.

captainkman

I've been experiencing the same stuttering in Surveyor as the OP and I've found that it seems to only appear on certain routes, and is consistent throughout that route. I wouldn't discount data validation or similar, though, since I have been moving a lot of content from TS2010 to TS12 to finally get it into T:ANE.
It surely cannot be a lack of memory on my system as my computer has 24GB of RAM and nearly 1TB of free hard-drive space.

Kieran.
​

I have 16 GB of ram.

clam1952

What build of TS12? if lower than 49922 that could be the cause and again if in between 49922 and 61388 could also be contributing to the problem. If TS12 is on a mechanical disk and not SSD defrag the Trainz drive. TS12 after an install or patch can be heavily fragmented.

Vanishing Track etc is a problem with TS12, I find flipping to wire mesh view and back usually restores things in surveyor.​

I'm running build 61388. TS12 is on a 1TB SSD.

The problem occurs on all routes in TS12. As I mentioned before, I have TS2010 on the same drive and it runs great. I have the same setup on a spare computer with TS12 and TS2010 on the same drive. Same problem with TS12, while TS2010 runs great. I'm running Windows 10 on both rigs.

Computer specs are as follows:

Main Computer
CPU: Intel i7-4790K, GPU: GTX 980, SSD: Samsung 1TB SSD, 16 GB Memory

Spare Computer
CPU: Intel i5-4460, GPU: GTX 570, HDD WDC 1TB 7200 RPM, 16 GB Memory

Thanks guys for your input. I'll keep looking for a solution, but in the meantime, I'm open for any additional help.

Regards,
Joe

 

[davesnow]

I had a similar problem. I was told to restart my Windows Management Instrumentation. That fixes the slowdown I sometimes experience when in Surveyor. It's easy, just access your Services program. The easiest way to find is just click Start, type Services, hit Enter. Under Services (Local), scroll down until you find the “Windows Management Instrumentation” service and select Restart.

This may not help you, but it's worth a try.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[jrfolco]

I had a similar problem. I was told to restart my Windows Management Instrumentation. That fixes the slowdown I sometimes experience when in Surveyor. It's easy, just access your Services program. The easiest way to find is just click Start, type Services, hit Enter. Under Services (Local), scroll down until you find the “Windows Management Instrumentation” service and select Restart.

This may not help you, but it's worth a try.

Cheers,

Dave

Hi Dave

Unfortunately that didn't work, but I appreciate your input.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Robert3a0]

Your spare computer with the GTX 570 might have slow-down with some TS 12 Routes, particularly where the scenery density is high, but your main rig should not be having any problems. My rig is almost the same as yours and I am not having any difficulty with TS 12 and I can run two screens of TANE concurrently. So something is definitely going on in the background. I am running Windows 10 also. I have found some TS12 routes were causing problems when there were lots of wave files close together, particularly Forest Birds. You might be due for a re-install of your OS (Win 10) as there could be a glitch in there. But as you are getting performance issues on both computers, it seems to me that you might have some faulty dependencies. Run a buffer check using the hints from Shane Turner's Tutorials http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?87067-Full-Listing-of-my-tutorials-as-of-20-03-2012 . I have found Shane's tips to be very useful for fixing past problems.
Regards
Bob

 

[Thai1On]

What Joe is describing is the exact reason for my move to TANE, warts and all. On my large route Surveyor ground to a crawl and got to the point of me stopping work on the route because of the massive lag in Surveyor. I was hoping there was going to be a fix, but I understand TANE has gotten all the resources now so work must continue under TANE I guess.

Dave

 

[clam1952]

Re the worst buffer check, the worst offender I came across was a chainlink fence which even though it wasn't anywhere near the area being worked on was killing surveyor with similar problems. So if checking you need to check near every spline to track down an offender.

A thought, may or may not help but try deleting the contents of userdata\cache\libraries it gets rebuilt on the next launch but it usually solves any issues relating to library problems.

Should not be having a problem in TS12 with a GTX980 other than brief delays and some stuff vanishing on occasions, I don't with a GTX970 or GTX680 on another PC in TS12.

Another thought, just in case, make sure you have DX9c installed in win10, it does make a difference with TS12, I need it with both a GTX680 and GTX970 or TS12 ran like a slug asleep. Need the re-distributable download not the Web updater which doesn't work in win 7, 8 or 10.

Thankfully Tane or rather the latest Beta doesn't suffer any of these problems!

 

[cascaderailroad]

I was using Seniorchief PRR Dwarf signals, and gantry semaphore signals, and noticed that when I deleted the signals, my framerates increased from 9FPS to 16FPS. Evidently they are high poly assets.

 

[JCitron]

I've had the same thing occur with some very nice houses. The frame rates dropped to the single digits in a particular area of a route I was working on. I removed the houses, after replacing a whole lot of other content and putting it back because it didn't make a difference. After removing these assets, my frame rates nearly tripled into the 20s even in a city-like area.

Seniorchief signals are all like that, sadly...

John

 

[cascaderailroad]

That's why I use a low end laptop, as when I use MP Track Wood chunky mesh track v2 by Philskene, and my framerates are constantly 16FPS, then I start adding assets, and the framerates drop to 9FPS, then I know the asset are too high poly

 

[jrfolco]

Robert3a0
Run a buffer check using the hints from Shane Turner's Tutorials http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showt...-of-20-03-2012 . I have found Shane's tips to be very useful for fixing past problems.

Ran the buffer test. Worst buffer index was 8.

clam1952
A thought, may or may not help but try deleting the contents of userdata\cache\libraries it gets rebuilt on the next launch but it usually solves any issues relating to library problems.

Another thought, just in case, make sure you have DX9c installed in win10, it does make a difference with TS12, I need it with both a GTX680 and GTX970 or TS12 ran like a slug asleep. Need the re-distributable download not the Web updater which doesn't work in win 7, 8 or 10.

Deleted the contents of userdata\cache\libraries, and installed DX9c. Unfortunately, I still have the problem.

I previously stated that this was occurring in all of the routes in TS12, but I'm finding out that it's no where as bad as the Harpers Ferry to Baltimore route, which indicates that I may have some bad content installed. It runs well in Driver with good frame rates and no stuttering. i have the route in T:ane on both computers, and I'm not experiencing this problem. I'm getting good frame rates on both computers in Driver.

If I cant resolve this problem, I'm seriously thinking of moving the route to T:ane, and forgetting about TS12. In a year or so, when I finish the route, T:ane may be the only way to go. There is also the possibility that future down loaders of the route may also experience the problem.

Hopefully, a solution will be forthcoming. Thanks guys for your input. I really appreciate it.

Joe

 

[PARAILFAN]

Wow after hearing all this I might just stick with 2010 indefinitely. I thought 2012 was supposed to be better and used almost the same resources as 2010. The only reason I would get 2012 is for the access to higher build numbered content now. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[cascaderailroad]

But you can't run some DLC like the NKP Berkshire, Aerotrain, PRR Fleet of Modernizum in TS10, and I believe TS12 runs smoother than TS10 ... I feel a new PC in 2016, or upgrading PC parts so I can run T:ANE ... but I will always lay track using TRS2006 on my beater low end laptop, as it shows me when I place too many high poly assets.

I unplug my Ethernet cable, and Ctrl Alt Del to turn off some obvious processes like AV's and Epson Printer EE Manager (which spies on your PC ink levels intrusively)