Is TRS22 setup to run on dual processor computers?

[KotangaGirl]

I've recently transferred my Trainz installs as well as some of my long term layout projects over to my HP Xeon computer with dual quad core processors, 16Gb RAM and a GTX1650 with 4Gb VRAM and I'm finding everything is running worse than it was on my older i5 powered CoolerMaster computer. Load times are slow, it takes ages for assets to be loaded into most areas and even then it's all pretty darn patchy with assets disappearing and reappearing every time the camera turns around. All settings are exactly the same as they were when this Seagate 2Tb 7200 rpm hard drive was installed in my CoolerMaster so what's going on?

Some of my own project routes are installed in a copy of TS2019 SP1 on this Xeon computer and while they are running on a 10,000 rpm SAS hard drive which makes some difference to load times everything is running fine. But even when the whole route is loaded into RAM and there's no more hard drive activity everything is still choppy with incomplete loading of assets.
My intention is save up to buy a fully up to date Windows 11 computer suitable for running Trainz, but I was hoping my HP Xeon would carry me through for a couple of years until that happens. At the moment it's looking like I'm going to have to archive away my TRS22 install and go back to running an earlier version of TS2019. At least TS2019 SP1 does work reasonably well without too many vices and I have three different SP versions of TANE as well should it come to that.

 

[G.M.]

TRS19 and TRS22 are both 64bits games/apps


A few things to check Annie
-you use 16Gb memory, besides that it needs extra swap memory(virtual memory)
this should be located on the fastest harddisk in the system
and not be fragmented


Loading times for Trainz:
-the faster the harddisk the better
-the connection from the HD to the motherboard/CPU (FI SATA, SCSI etc)
-less fragmented the better
-the smaller the filesizes the faster
(EG pbr groundtex 14mb or standard 80kb, guess what is faster)
-no other programs running/checking, specially watch for AV software
if an AV starts checking every read and write Trainz does, it really brings it to a halt


Here I do most work in an even older TRS19 build 100240 (before SP1)
main reason: interfaces and where undo is
SP1 can't bulk asset replace splines

 

[clam1952]

Shouldn't be any difference between running TRS19 and TRS22 other than TRS22 has better frame rates.

Routes are never entirely loaded into Ram though as assets are streamed as and when required.

Specifically which model Xeons? and DDR4 or DDR3? What GPU were you using with the i5?

A GTX1650, talking bottom end entry level, GPU thinking either some kind of bottlenecking going on or something else such as an AV doing on access scans. Worth checking that exclusions are still set after updates especially after a Windows feature update for Defender.

Drive speed shouldn't come into it after Trainz has initially loaded, other than obviously an m.2 or Sata are going to load quicker than a spinner, when running there shouldn't be any stuttering or other problems, I can run TRS19 from one of my USB3 Backup disks which is a mere 5425RPM and other than the somewhat long time it takes to initially load a route, it runs as well as it does on an SSD.

I would suggest running resource manager and checking what is accessing the Trainz drive when you are running TRS19 / TRS22.

 

[JCitron]

Sometimes clearing the performance settings helps.

Go to the cache folder and delete this file: performance.conf

This will force a reset of the configuration settings the next time you start up TRS22.

 

[KotangaGirl]

The i5 had 16Gb RAM and was running a GTX650 Ti Malc because its elderly bios wouldn't allow anything more modern than that. Surprisingly it ran Ok provided I kept the settings on the modest side.

The Xeons are E5320 Clovertowns @ 1.86 Ghz, RAM is DDR2. And yes I know it's a really old Xeon desktop server. When I was running it in Windows 7 it had a GTX960 GPU and it ran TS2019 really well with the CPU loadings just about the same across all 8 cores. With Windows 10 and TRS22 the CPU loadings are completely unbalanced with the bias towards the first quad core processor.

I'm not impressed with the GTX1650 as after a while it stops loading assets leaving a locomotive and its train running across a completely bare landscape. I can see in task manager that it starts off well, but then trails off to barely 20% and all the scenery starts to disappear.

I did transfer the virtual memory swap file over to the SAS drive as G.M. suggested which made a small initial difference to loading times.

I will check things out with resource manager as you suggest Malc as while my Xeon might be old it still runs well and it shouldn't be running as poorly as this.

 

[johnwhelan]

I run a dual Xeon as well, when loading a layout TS22 uses all 16 cores, 32 logical at 100% but running S&C it drops back to 7-8% the GPU at RTX 2070 is running at 37%. I'm not sure if that is helpful or not. perfmon or task manager can be used to see what resouces are being used.

The GTX 650 has a benchmark score of 2528 which is low. https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

The GTX 1650 has a benchmark score of 7800 which is a little low but should be fine. Have you downloaded the latest nVidia drivers?

The Xeon's don't always have the height for a high end video card and to be honest they are about twice the price they should be at the moment.

My personal view on Win 11 is for the moment win 10 works fine and I don't think it offers any major improvement over win 10 for running trainz. I have a copy on laptop.

Cheerio John

 

[clam1952]

My personal view on Win 11 is for the moment win 10 works fine and I don't think it offers any major improvement over win 10 for running Trainz. I have a copy on laptop.

Win 11 has higher frame rates than Win 10, not so much that it's worth binning a perfectly good Win 10 setup yet awhile.

I would hazard a guess that the Xeons are bottlenecking the 1650, if its running at anything under 90% in GPU-Z like say 30% while the CPU is running at 100% it's being bottlenecked. Why? newer GPUs need data at a faster rate than old CPUs can provide.


Just done a comparison of Xeon E5320 v an i5 10400 (6 cores 12 threads) as I have one here, the i5 is around 126% faster. It also runs TRS19 well with a 6GB GTX1060.

Point being you don't need an i7 or i9, a Ryzen 7 or 9 to run TRS19 / 22 the i5-10400 is actually 4% faster than my i7-6000k and has more cores and threads.

Just tried a bottle neck calculator, doesn't have your Xenon though, closest was a Xeon 5345 which is to slow for a GTX1650 and has a 68% Bottleneck, a GTX 650 however is perfectly matched at 3.7%

Price wise for the future I'd be looking at AMD for CPU / motherboard.

 

[KotangaGirl]

I did try resetting the performance setting as you suggested John and I checked the draw distance setting as well. Loading seemed to be reasonably quick in the station area that I've been using as my test site and all is good while passing through the town and yards, but once out into open countryside the GTX1650 does its gradual fade out trick and the scenery starts to disappear. My scenic work is nothing complicated with basic hedges and poplar trees and no 'magic' stuff so I really don't understand why the GPU is fading out and not working. I'm almost tempted to put the old GTX960 back in since I know that works.

John W. I did download the latest Nvidia drivers so I know that's alright. I don't think putting anything better than a GTX1650 in my old Xeon would be worthwhile and with the price of higher end video cards at the moment I'd be spending money for no great advantage since I doubt the Xeon would have the resources to get the best out of it.

I setup Windows Defender to leave all my Trainz folders alone and I checked what was running in resource manager and found nothing that looked like it shouldn't be there. I already had the usual annoying Windows junk switched off and background tasks kept to an absolute minimum so I'm not sure what else I can do.

Each of the suggestions made that I tried did give some improvement, but didn't prove to be a complete cure. However I am grateful for the advice and suggestions I received, - so thank you for that.

 

[clam1952]

Need to see the post I just made before yours Annie, wasting your time with anything other than that GTX 960 and that will still be bottlenecked.

 

[KotangaGirl]

Win 11 has higher frame rates than Win 10, not so much that it's worth binning a perfectly good Win 10 setup yet awhile.

I would hazard a guess that the Xeons are bottlenecking the 1650, if its running at anything under 90% in GPU-Z like say 30% while the CPU is running at 100% it's being bottlenecked. Why? newer GPUs need data at a faster rate than old CPUs can provide.


Just done a comparison of Xeon E5320 v an i5 10400 (6 cores 12 threads) as I have one here, the i5 is around 126% faster. It also runs TRS19 well with a 6GB GTX1060.

Point being you don't need an i7 or i9, a Ryzen 7 or 9 to run TRS19 / 22 the i5-10400 is actually 4% faster than my i7-6000k and has more cores and threads.

Just tried a bottle neck calculator, doesn't have your Xenon though, closest was a Xeon 5345 which is to slow for a GTX1650 and has a 68% Bottleneck, a GTX 650 however is perfectly matched at 3.7%

Price wise for the future I'd be looking at AMD for CPU / motherboard.

So it's looking like I should perhaps get my old GTX960 out of its box and put it back in the Xeon again. Thanks very much for checking out those figures Malc.
All I want is for my old Xeon to carry on for a couple more years until I can get the money together for something better that's Win 11 compatible. There's no end of later model ex-lease Xeons around at the moment, but they aren't Win 11 compatible so it's not worth spending any money on them.

 

[KotangaGirl]

Need to see the post I just made before yours Annie, wasting your time with anything other than that GTX 960 and that will still be bottlenecked.

I've got a box of older graphics cards I can try Malc. The GTX 960 did basically work alright before even if it was being bottlenecked. I've got a GTX 650 with 2Gb of RAM and two huge cooling fans that I know works Ok so I could try that as well. I'm running TRS22 on Medium settings so the GTX650 should be fine.

 

[lackoo11111]

There's one thing i don't like about the newest trainz versions : the constant high CPU usage while installing hundred of megabytes non-DLS content from a folder .

 

[JCitron]

There's one thing i don't like about the newest trainz versions : the constant high CPU usage while installing hundred of megabytes non-DLS content from a folder .

That's caused by the decompression of the CDP files while the data is imported and submitted and is also seen when existing assets are submitted. I noticed this in TANE, and it's been the same since. I found increasing Windows virtual memory helps a lot with this because it gives the CPU more room to process the data, so it spends less time working at it.

 

[lackoo11111]

That's caused by the decompression of the CDP files while the data is imported and submitted and is also seen when existing assets are submitted. I noticed this in TANE, and it's been the same since. I found increasing Windows virtual memory helps a lot with this because it gives the CPU more room to process the data, so it spends less time working at it.

Thank you . I will try what you suggested .

 

[Driver_Col]

I don't know whether this is relevant (I barely understand the prior comments!), but I am running TRS22 without undue problems with GTX1060 3GB. Regards. Colin.

 

[clam1952]

I don't know whether this is relevant (I barely understand the prior comments!), but I am running TRS22 without undue problems with GTX1060 3GB. Regards. Colin.

Not one of my main rigs but I have a 6GB GTX1060 with a i5-10400 and that works surprisingly well with TRS19.

Annie's problem is using very old CPUs that can't feed the new generation cards fast enough, thus low FPS and stuttering. symptoms are low GPU usage on a GPU intensive application, and CPU struggling at 100% when it ought to be low usage, given the GPU is supposed to be doing the work, net result is at best stuttering and a space heating CPU, worse case all of the previous and a slide show. Ideally GPU should be 100% and CPU a fairly low value say 25% which is what my i7 - 6700K / GTX980Ti uses.

For CPU intensive apps like TS12 the GPU being bottlenecked is pretty much irrelevant as it's not doing a lot.

 

[Driver_Col]

Not one of my main rigs but I have a 6GB GTX1060 with a i5-10400 and that works surprisingly well with TRS19.

Annie's problem is using very old CPUs that can't feed the new generation cards fast enough, thus low FPS and stuttering. symptoms are low GPU usage on a GPU intensive application, and CPU struggling at 100% when it ought to be low usage, given the GPU is supposed to be doing the work, net result is at best stuttering and a space heating CPU, worse case all of the previous and a slide show. Ideally GPU should be 100% and CPU a fairly low value say 25% which is what my i7 - 6700K / GTX980Ti uses.

For CPU intensive apps like TS12 the GPU being bottlenecked is pretty much irrelevant as it's not doing a lot.

Thanks Malc. I guess it's the "Only as strong as the weakest link" concept. Regards. Colin.