Is Mission Code Manager too buggy to be of any use?

[Smileyman]

Serious question.
And I'm talking for TRS2019 here.
I would imagine that the bug that I'm talking about mainly here has been fixed for TRS2022, otherwise no-one would be able to use it.

I've made great strides in understanding how to use EITs and Mission Codes, and I'm very impressed with what it can do for automation.
But, I ran into a problem earlier that for a little while I couldn't work out why it stopped working suddenly.

I had trains going into a 4 track station, and using the 'Stop Zones' feature of MCM, I set up the driver command to get a path to the station, and MCM would direct them to a platform that was empty.
It was really cool to watch, and sets up so many possibilities for operations.

Then it stopped working.
The trains would be given the correct path (the EIT was fully set up and working perfectly), but something screwy was going on with the trains at the platform.
They didn't stop at the platforms, and just crawled slowly along, and the driver command bar showed that the MCDriveTo/ViaPathStop hadn't been fulfilled, and was still looking for it, even though it had just run over it.

After a lot of narrowing down what it could be, I found that the Stop Zones I'd set up, which had been working perfectly for a little while, were empty.
For anyone who isn't familiar with 'Stop Zones' in MCM, they allow you to place down, let's say, 5 MCPathStops (basically a special trackmark) on the 5 tracks of your 5 track station.
You name them what you want (Birmingham Plat1, ...Plat 2, etc), and then in MCM (Mission Code Manager) you set it up so that all 5 of those PathStops are grouped together under a custom name that you decide (let's say 'Birmingham New Street'), and then back in Surveyor, you set up your driver command to enter that station using the name 'Birmingham New Street', and MCM will look at all the PathStops that are under the umbrella of that group name, and send the train to a platform that isn't occupied.
So, a busy station would be different almost every time you play it, instead of the same old 'go to platform 2, then...etc.
Sounds cool right.
It really is, in theory.
It was wonderful to watch for a minute, until it stopped working.

As I said, after running the session, and it working for a minute, it stopped, and I found out that my list of PathStops under the umbrella name had gone. Nothing there.
On the screen that lists the umbrella names, it said that the name had 10 PathStops associated with it (it should be 5), but when I went into that page to see the list for that name, there were none.
Worse, when I went to put the names back in, there were 10 in the list to choose from, each one that should be there was there twice!
Selecting it once for inclusion in the group again took both instances out of the list.

Having set it up again, I ran the session, and it worked. Yay!
Then I quit the session and ran it again, and...they were all gone again.
I repeated this several times, and each time, the session was fine right after I'd put the names back in, but the next session they were gone.
Also, at one point, there were three of each name in the list when adding them back in.

I changed the name of the group a couple of times, to see if that would help, but when I went back to the original name, it brought the list of PathStops from one of the other names I'd tried.

The final straw for the night was when I saw the group screen say there were 20 PathStops associated with the group name (there were only 5 PathStops on the route).

Going back to the menu and loading the route/session didn't make any difference, and neither did restarting the game again.
It seems it has problems saving the information for that part of the program. They are being used by the session right after you enter them, but they're not being saved.

So, I just wanted to know if anyone has experienced this?
I'm beginning to wonder just how many people actually use EITs and MCM, mainly because of the lack of information out there on it, and the lack of discussion on here about it.
It's such a powerful tool, potentially.
Did everyone who uses it migrate to TRS2022, where it's been fixed and working well?
I've seen some pretty positive comments from people about it on here and other places, so I can only imagine they're not using the broken parts, or they're using all the parts in TRS2022 where it's been fixed.

Anyway, after seeing briefly what it could do, it was snatched away from me!

Seriously though, I would like to know if anyone else has experienced this, or if this has been talked about before.
Or whether they use the feature I'm talking about without problem, and in which version.

Such a shame.
I was really starting to enjoy it.
As a programmer myself, I'm allowed to say this...I hate buggy software!

 

[paulper]

Works fine for me. PM me to start with and we can look at getting your route to me - happy to look into it

 

[Smileyman]

Works fine for me. PM me to start with and we can look at getting your route to me - happy to look into it

That's very kind of you, but it's just a test route for me to learn how to use EITs and MCM.

I'm more interested in how it happened, whether the route or session got corrupted somehow, so I can avoid it if I implement it onto my South Wales route.

So, you're using missions codes and EITs, and have multiple PathStops grouped in StopZones without problem?
If you are, would you mind telling me which version of Trainz you're using and which SP?
I'd like to get an idea of what version people are having success with.

Bear in mind that the EITs and Paths all work fine, it's just the PathStops and StopZones in Mission Code Manager that's caused problems.

 

[marky7890]

I'm using Trainz 2019, I have never used the pathstops and stopzones or the Timetable feature, I just use the Wait until hour and Wait until minute driver commands then Load At for passenger trains or drive to trackmark for freight trains.

 

[marky7890]

If you are using an edition with the unified driver surveyor feature (such as Platinum edition) you have to quickly go into driver then back to surveyor for the missioncode manager to update, I do this when testing my sessions before releasing them, then the driver list has been updated so missioncodes can be assigned in the trains tab of the manager.

 

[paulper]

That's very kind of you, but it's just a test route for me to learn how to use EITs and MCM.

I'm more interested in how it happened, whether the route or session got corrupted somehow, so I can avoid it if I implement it onto my South Wales route.

So, you're using missions codes and EITs, and have multiple PathStops grouped in StopZones without problem?
If you are, would you mind telling me which version of Trainz you're using and which SP?
I'd like to get an idea of what version people are having success with.

Bear in mind that the EITs and Paths all work fine, it's just the PathStops and StopZones in Mission Code Manager that's caused problems.

I'm on TRS22 Build 132284.

I use MIssion Codes, EITs and MC Timetable rules. My trains run to a published timetable on my Dartford Loops route (WIP). My setup involves multiple pathstops per platform (to suit consist length).

I do not use UDS and I think sometimes this has caused issues (particularly when using pguy's rules). Save a 'starting position' version of your session, export the CPD in case of accidental changes, but generally, after using Driver, make sure you exit Driver completely before returning to Surveyor to edit your session again.

Marky7890's advice above might also assist of course.

Some screenshots of pathstops being edited might help further.

 

[Smileyman]

No, I don't have the UDS.
I bought the UK Regional Edition of Trainz 2019, as I'm not really interested in built-in routes, or most non-uk rolling stock.

To reiterate, everything else about using the Enhanced Interactive Towers and getting trains to go where I want with Mission Codes works fine.
I've got a handle on it now, and it all works fine, and was ready to move onto the Timetable part of it, to see if it's something that I would want on my route.

It's just the Mission Code Manager seemingly not being able to hold onto the Stopping Zone information within the Rule after exiting the session.

I know that the first post was a big one, so I'll just state the problem as it stands:

I enter the PathStops into the Stop Zone, which have all been placed and labeled correctly, and I run the session.
I then use the Stop Zone as the destination in my driver commands, the MCM checks the mission codes, grants access to the block at the entry to the station and chooses which platform to let my into (in other words, which of the PathStops within the Stop Zone group), and sets the path.
My train goes through the path, all other paths through that block are locked, and my train gets to it's destination, the driver command is fulfilled, and the next driver command is executed.
All good!
Except, if I quit the session and go back to surveyor, and then run the session again, without touching anything else, the path will be granted, the train will run through the path, but it will not complete the driver command.

The funny thing is, if you think about it, when I run the session the second time, as mentioned above, MCM must have the list of StopPaths in the Stop Zone for it to grant permission to one of the platforms, so it has them right then. So the path is set to a random platform using the StopPaths stored in the Stop Zone group, and then for some reason, it loses them, because the train isn't triggering the command to complete when it gets to the PathStop using MCAutodriveto/viaStopPath.
This is confirmed when I quit the 2nd session and go into MCM > Stop Zones and find all the StopPaths are gone.

Basically, everything works fine except for that, and I'm trying to work out whether that was an anomaly, and that something screwy happened to my session, or whether it's something that's common, and others on TRS2019 have experienced it.

I will be doing more tests later on, and I'm very methodical and will be analyzing every possible variable to try to find out what happened.
But I don't want to waste my time implementing something on my route that's ultimately unreliable, hence my request for others to share their experiences of StopPaths and Stop Zones.

I'm hoping that it's a rare occurrence and something I did, rather than the rule being buggy, because I really want to use it.

Pguy should be commended for his work on this.
It's outstanding, and something that should have been built-in to Trainz since Trainz began.
It takes Trainz to the next level for me.

I just need to know that it can be relied on, and with my tests and people letting me know how they got on with PathStops and Stop Zones, and in which version of Trainz, I should be able to find out.

Thanks for the input so far guys.
I appreciate it.

 

[Smileyman]

OK, well, deleted the session and created a new one, made sure that there were no hidden objects or bogus junctions ('Find Object' matches everything on the baseboard perfectly), and set up a new session.

After setting the Stop Zone with the 4 PathStops, I could edit other rules and they would still be there when I went back in, as well as go back to surveyor from the session editor and then go back in and they are still there in the MCM rule.
So far so good.
It doesn't seem to be misbehaving like it was yesterday, so it sounds like the session got screwed up by something at some point.

But, although the pathing is still working perfectly (love that!), the train doesn't complete the driver command when it gets to the PathStop, so it's still not recognizing it.

Now here's the thing.
Mark mentioned the driver list earlier, and I don't have any drivers in the list on the trains tab of MCM, and never have, including yesterday.
Because I'm setting and adding mission codes via driver commands, I didn't think I'd need any in the list.
There doesn't seem to be a button to add trains to the list, so I presume something's not right because I have a train on tracks but it's not picking it up automatically.

Is there a setting I've missed somewhere that will allow the trains list in MCM to be populated?

I'll test further.

 

[Smileyman]

Well, looking at the screenshot of the trains tab in MCM on the Trainz wiki, it looks like the only thing you can set on there are the mission codes, which I'm setting through the driver commands anyway, so it looks like I won't need to use it.

As for my MCM troubles, well there are bugs.
It seems like it's mostly if you change any of names of the PathStops or the name of the Stop Zones then it gets confused and starts acting up.
It remembers name and lists that you previously put in and thinks they are part of the new zones when you set it up.

I have a reproducible bug where you can have just 4 PathStops on your route and each change adds one to the number MC thinks you have.
I got it up to 20 Path Stops for just the 4 real ones!
I think that's what caused MCM to corrupt my session.

So, deleted the session, set everything up again, and got it all working.
During all that, the Enhanced Interlocking Tower sat there keeping all its settings, and working fine. Nice!

Anyway, once I got it all working, I noticed that the Path Stops are directional (which is probably why Pierre modeled them as arrows), but I didn't see any mention of that anywhere.

If a train is looking for one of the Path Stops in a zone, and it's facing towards the train, the train will ignore it, and if the arrow is facing the same direction as the train, the train will find it every time.
I did many, many tests on this, and backward arrow meant a train crawling, looking for it and never finding it 100% of the time.
With the arrow facing the same direction as the train, found by the train and completed the driver command 100% of the time.

So, I guess the lesson here is to be careful when setting up the session, as the final version of MCM for TRS2019 is very delicate and temperamental, and once messed up, it will mean a completely new session.
Good to know, and I am happy that, bugs aside, it works very well once set up.

I don't think I'm going to go down the Timetable route.
I was using drive to/via trackmarks and using the 'copy from' and the 'schedule library' before learning about EIT and MCM (thanks to John for solving that problem!), and it worked very well, so I think I'm going to combine the two.

I'll get EIT and MCM to route all the trains, and put all those driver commands into blocks in the schedule library, so I can use them as a modular system.
So for instance, I'll have all the instructions for getting a passenger train from Severn Tunnel Junction to Newport in the schedule library as "Severn - Newport (p)", and another set in the schedule library for Newport to Cardiff ("Newport - Cardiff (p)), and I can just chain them together in the main driver commands for the train, putting any delays or other actions between the two 'copy from' commands.
I can then add onto that the block to get that train to go left to Barry Island. I can also have an identical train, but change the third block with "Cardiff - Bridgend (p)" to make that train go straight out the other side of Cardiff Central and onto Bridgend, calling at Pencoed,.....well, you get the idea.

And because of EIT and MCM, I don't have to worry about which platform the trains will use, as they will either use an empty one automatically, or wait for one to become available.
That has to be one of my favourite things about it.

And of course, you can drive a train amongst all this, and the EIT MCM system will take care of all your routing too, asking you where you want to go as you approach a block. A click of a button telling the system that you want to go to Llanwern West Junction, and all you have to worry about is obeying the speed and the signals, and getting 30 wagons of iron ore there safely.

This is exactly what I always wanted Trainz to be, so fingers crossed.
It's probably going to be a long, bumpy journey.

Thanks for all the help and advice guys!
Hope the information in this thread makes more people give EIT a go.