Is it transdem or me?

PWillard

Member
So, I used transdem for the first time. I used OpenStreetMaps and DEMS from Nasa using the 30M SRTM data selection from http://dwtkns.com/srtm30m/.

4GbsV1C.jpg


So did I mess up?

My rail splines are below the OSM texture and are clearly off center from the OSM position (off position to the south by like 10 meters or so)

(Maybe I should not use OSM? Or not use 30M SRTM?)
 
Disclaimer: I use TrainzDem but I am not an expert at it. I lay track manually. I use only 30m SRTM data obtained from the same website you use.

But in my opinion, you did not mess up, and it is not an Open Street Map problem, nor is it a TrainzDem problem either.

Using 30m SRTM data is a trade-off. Others more experienced with TrainzDem may suggest a data source with finer granularity to try, but then it requires much larger files.

I think what you have right now is 99.99% just fine, and now you just need to fine tune it by playing with the track spline points (location and elevation).

Hopefully geophil (author of TrainzDem) will see this and comment as well.
 
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It's not you. I've had this occur as well. I think it has something to do with the textures because once I textured the map with dirt, grass, and ballast the tracks appeared.
 
Thank you to everyone for letting me know... I agree, that video is really helpful...
 
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Pete,

Is that MA Rt. 133 or Rt 135?

I live near Rt. 133 that's why I ask. The intersection looks familiar.
 
I used to live a few blocks from there... that's RT135 downtown Framingham. I was often hanging out at the 2 nearby rail yards as a kid.

FYI: I'm going to try OSM textures again with slightly closer zoom level.
 
I used to live a few blocks from there... that's RT135 downtown Framingham. I was often hanging out at the 2 nearby rail yards as a kid.

FYI: I'm going to try OSM textures again with slightly closer zoom level.

I've been through there as well a very long time ago when I had to visit a coworker and fix his computer for him. Wow small world. That's quite a train-watching place. I was never so lucky and had to settle for Lawrence yard.

I never had luck with the OSMs and use the more detailed topographic maps from the National Geologic Society. I had a detailed write up on how to obtain the maps and the process for placing them, but now all that's obsolete because the sever setup is totally different and actually more complex than it used to be.

For the topo maps, if you want to try them, download the 1:240000. I can't remember the zoom though that I use but it's equivalent to the maps.
 
HzcymUj.jpg


Well, that was a bust...


And I guess I agree that OSM is just horrid. I end up with a nearly useless mush texture as a reference. I looked at Google Earth option... but that is incredibly tedious to me.

I'll try some other options. I have a Google API key... but always receive an error from transdem when using it :(
 
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If I get some time today, I'll go through and come up with some pseudo quick and easy steps for importing topographic maps into TransDEM. They really are the best option. I might be able to use my old document as a reference and update the parts that changed accordingly.
 
Transdem to TRS19 is like going from 4K to analog tv. The images in transdem look sharp but when it gets converted for TRS19 usage it loses some of that sharpness look.
 
Rather than post up my PDF, I can do that again if you wish, here's the directions directly from my document.

Here's the basic for downloading the Topo maps from the Map-tile server. Some of this information may be redundant for you, but it's here in its entirety for others as well.

TransDEM route creation and export tutorial.

[h=2]This guide assumes that you, the user, has a basic understanding of PC and MS Windows file management as well as a basic understand of TransDEM. With this tutorial you will learn how to:[/h]
1) Setup a data structure which assists with handling and exporting TransDEM data
2) Downloading and saving the Base Map image
3) Downloading the Map tiles from the WMS or Map tile server along a path created using the Simple Route Editor.

Though not required, I highly recommend setting up the folders as shown here. The driver letter, E: is used as reference only and may or may not be the same as your own system. If you, for example, only have a C: drive, then use that and create the folders as shown.
I setup mine as follows:

E:\TransDEM_Data
(Sub folders that follow)
Dem Files
Current Project <under this is your current route working folder>
Old Projects
Route Export

1) Dem Files --- Contains your zipped DEM file downloads.

2) Current Project ---- This is the current project you are working on ---- you will create a folder to hold all the downloaded images. Call it whatever you want.

3) Old Projects is to move the older data out of the way once completed. I recommend that you keep this around just in case you need to regenerate the route for export again.

4) Route Export ---- This is where the data gets exported to by TransDEM when we create the route.
You will need to go to Settings and change the output path to this location. When you export a route, it’ll place the route’s folder under this location making installation and saving of the original routes easy to maintain.

[h=2]Downloading and saving your Raster Maps, Base Tile.[/h]
The purpose of the base image is to get us into the area where we want our map downloads. We don't have to show complete details, but enough to see what we want. Using the Bing Maps (MS Terraserver) (Google doesn't work anymore it seems), and the Combined to show roads, we will have enough to get what we want later.

- Startup TransDEM (to be referred to as TD from now on), and click on Raster Map.

The base image:
- Click on Map Tile Servers.

You will see a black box.
- Click on Provider and choose MS Bing
- Click on Tile type and choose Combined.

You will now see a picture of the earth showing the country borders.
- Using the arrows surrounding the map (not the big left right arrows on the right) navigate over to the US.

- Click on the map to zoom in. The more you click, the more you zoom. You can also use the zoom in/out slider or click on the + or - to zoom in and out until you see the area you want to bring in.

This doesn't have to be the completely zoomed in high detail view. This is to give us the area where we want. Remember you can use the arrows surrounding the map to get your area in the view.

- Once you get your view, showing what you want, click on the big right-direction arrow.
- Click on Get Map on the bottom of the screen.
This will download your base image to your drive.
- Choose the folder you setup for your project. Mine is the HT&W in my files at the moment.
- Call the file Base Map Image. (There are two parts, but they come down together so just call it Base Map Image).
- After the map is saved, it should now appear automatically in TD.

[h=2]Tracing the map-tile path using the Simple Route Editor[/h]
In this part, we will trace the route using the Simple Route Editor. This is a small pencil icon located towards the right side. Once that's activated, click on create polyline with mouse. This will create a line that we will use to download the map images that will be included as the base for your route.

- Click on Simple Route Editor.
- Click on Create Polyline with mouse.
- Draw the route roughly in the area where you want the map coverage. It doesn't have to be 100% accurate, but follow the route area as best as you can at this resolution.
- To cancel your route drawing, press ESC. To add more lines, click again and you can draw more and press ESC to end again.

If you click on the ends of the spline (the little arrows), you can adjust the spline. Right mouse-button clicking brings up other functions.
- Once you have your polyline done, click on the Simple Route Editor button again to "lock" the route to prevent it from moving.
To save the route, which you might want to do in case you have to quit at this point, click on Route and save. Just click OK and ignore the options.
Now we will go back into the Raster Map - This is for topo maps. Adjust the resolution and map type for orthographic images.

- Repeat the steps above to get yourself in the same area as before. Once you do that you need to change the map type.
- Click on Provider and put in the provider.
- For the provider, choose USA Topo if this isn’t there already.
- Under Tile type, choose the only option for map 1:24K Raster.
- Zoom into the area you want again.
- Click on the small zoom level under Scale and change that to 12 - this will get you close to the 1:24k which is 1:30k scale.
- At the bottom, change the Mode from single map to Map images along path.
- Type in the name. I use map_image_ (The image number is appended), you can put in something else.
- You will now see the bar moving, and if you slide that map-retrieving window out of the way, you will see the topo maps drawn along the path.
- When the process is done click close.

[h=2]Loading the Raster Map images later on, and if the display "disappears" once the images have been downloaded.[/h]
- Click on Raster Map
- Click Close Raster Map
- Click on each Map Image*.lgb (Where *.lgb refers to the group of downloaded map images) and load these.
This is all the downloaded maps and not the underlying base map and route which you no longer need.
You will see the route load up again as a long string of images if done correctly along the blue route line.
- Click on the delete route to remove this from the screen as this is no longer needed now.

[h=2]Creating the actual route[/h]On the top bar, you will see a magnifying glass, crossed, arrows, a single arrow and other icons.
- Click on the crossed arrows.
- Scroll the middle mouse-button towards you to zoom in to see the map details.
- Go to one of the ends of your route.

Once you get there, it's time to build your route, and one that will be used going forward for actual export to T:ANE.
- Click on the Simple Route Tool again
- Click on the Create new polyline tool
- Draw a spline along the tracks.

If you come to a yard, just draw through the middle of it.
If you come to a junction, draw the spline up the line to its end, and then hit ESC when you reach the end then continue on the mainline some more. You can always finish the mainline first and then the branch line if you want. You'll figure out your best method for that.

- Once you get your route done and traced, save it. This is something worth saving if you need to quit and come back later after all this is your route now.

[h=2]​--- Continued ---[/h]
 
Loading DEM files and trimming for export to Trainz


With the maps downloaded and the route traced, the next step is to bring in the DEMs and trim them to the map area. DEMs are huge files now, done in 1-degree slices of the earth, and sometimes require more than one segment of map to cover the area we need. The problem is the DEMs themselves are quite huge and need to be trimmed down to cover the area we actually want to represent because neither TD nor T:ANE can handle multiple full sized DEMs in one shot, and TS12 barfs when trying to import insanely huge routes. As a test I brought in a 750MB TD route into T:ANE without a hitch. TS12 CM crashed immediately to the desktop! Keep in mind that this maybe the upper end of the route size as this was never tested further from here.

Using our map as a guide and route as an anchor we will trim the DEMs in sections and butt them up against each other to build one contiguous subsection of the map.
For this process you will need to unzip the DEM files.
All you will need to use, out of the huge download is one file - the largest of the .img files in the zip.
Open the Zip and drag out the largest .img and place that in your route folder in your TransDEM data folders you have setup - the same folder where all the images have downloaded to. Once copied we need to bring in one DEM at a time to trim down and save.

With your map still loaded up on the screen:
- Click on File/DEM and choose Open DEM.
You should see it in the same list as you have just placed it in the same folder.

It can take time to load up each DEM individually so let it do its thing and don't panic. You can see the progress bar at the bottom of the TD screen which shows how much is being imported.
- When importing, click OK on the defaults displayed there is no need to touch anything here so just ignore them.
When the DEM loads up, it will be green and other colors which represent the lows and highs. Your map area will cover a small portion of all this map, perhaps only a snot-sized slice which has happened to me more than once.
Our next steps now involve trimming, saving, loading, and merging together to create the final result.

- Click on the single white arrow - the Select Tool.
- Click on the DEM/map image and draw a box around your map that sits on that section of the DEM just up to the edge where it ends on the DEM its self. It doesn't matter if you draw above that into the black area - just the green part and map are selected.
- Click on the Scissor to Erase DEM points.
- Click OUTSIDE the selected map area.
A dialog box will appear with ALL OUTSIDE selected.

- Click OK to trim everything down to just your MAP with that section of the DEM.
If you make a mistake, you can always start again - we haven't saved anything just yet.
- If all is OKAY, save the DEM by clicking on File/DEM, and choosing Save DEM as... and put in a name. I call mine Part A or Part 1, etc.
- Repeat this with each section. Open DEM, choose the next one, trim, and Save. You will be prompted about closing the existing DEM. Just click on OK.

Once all the DEMs have been trimmed down, we now merge all the pieces back together into one smaller DEM that just covers your route.
- Close all DEMs by clicking on File/DEM close DEM.
- With no DEMs showing, click on Open DEM and choose Part A or Part 1, depending upon how you saved them.
- Once that part loads up, repeat with the next part and choose Add DEM, and then the next until all the DEMs are loaded up.

It may take time to load up each of the DEM files.

- Once loaded up, if you are satisfied with your trimming and splicing, you can now save this DEM as a single DEM. I usually call mine Final for lack of any other name.

By this point, your route should be plotted out. This is the actual route that will become the rail line that we'll use to generate the Trainz route. Your images should be in place. If you have downloaded multiple times, ensure that they are all loaded up. You can actually save these as one group. By the time I'm done, I may have had to download multiple sets because of missed map images. I ran into this recently with a new map I'm working on. I saved the final map concatenation as large.lgb even though there are many map images00x.lgb files in there.
- Close all the Raster Images.
- Open your saved and trimmed DEM
I actually import the DEM first then load the map images later. At any rate, ensure the whole package is complete and together so you see your blue route line on the maps and DEM.

Exporting to Trainz

- Click on Trainz on the top menu bar.
- Click on Export and Create DEM and Ground Textures.
Now we need to fill in some blanks.
Starting on the left:
- Skip down to Route filter.

- Apply the filter to at least 4 baseboards. You can go higher if you want, or less. This is the number of baseboards that will be cut back when we export the route. You don't have to do this at all and you can do the trimming later in Trainz. It's up to you.
Trainz Version:
- Pick T:ANE for T:ANE or TS12 for TS12. Use T:ANE for TRS19 and above.
- You'll see an option for 5 meter grid. You can apply that to only the baseboards where the route actually is traced, and leave the rest at a lower resolution. You'll find this helpful when you have lots of mountains because you don't need a high resolution outside the area. In fact it's good for all routes. Then if you're gutsy, you can pick All and build a gazillion 5m baseboards.

Middle Section right top:
Skip over the very top with UTM coordinates and go to Overlay Bitmap (Ground Texture).
- Check Ground Texture from Raster Map (important to show your Topo map!)
- Uncheck show route. You don't want to have the route's blue line hiding yards and stuff.
- Uncheck UTM grid. Unless you are using 3d Tiles (don't ask), or Google Earth tiles, this is not helpful and obliterates images on the map.

Go down to Map KUID:
- Put in your UID then the starting number.
- Check Search all World\Custom\Maps for unique KUID
- Check Reuse existing KUID

Going down to the bottommost section the Export Destination:
Put in the path for your exported routes.
E:\TransDEM_Data\Route Export
- Below that goes your map name. Put in your route name up to 15 chars.
- Click OK.

That's it, your route is being built. It can take some time to do this and let it finish. I usually go do something else while it builds up the route.
After everything is cooked down and your route is exported

- Start up T:ANE, or TS12
- Go to Content Manager
- Open up Windows Explorer
- Open up the folder where you exported your routes to.
- Drag that new route into CM.
- After it's imported successfully, open up in T:ANE/TS12 and have a look.

If there's anything you don't like, delete the route from Trainz, and delete the exported route (not the original). Rebuild things again, adjust the settings, maybe you need some more maps, etc.
Build a new one and have a look.

Exporting routes in sections

Due to the sheer size of the data, it is sometimes necessary to trim back the route into smaller segments and import as smaller routes that can be merged in Trainz. Since TransDEM uses UTM coordinates, a route which has been cut into sections can be assembled together as long as the edges have not been altered in Trainz.
To split a route in TransDEM:

- Load up the DEM and the tile raster map.
- Ensure that show grids is on and displays the UTM coordinates.
- Write down, the coordinates for the map slice based on the UTM coordinates. Note: these are kept in a text file which will be in the route-export folder. If you neglect to write down the information, you can always view it there
- Using the Simple Route Editor, trace the route as outlined above.
- Using the Marquee Tool, select the area around the drawn route. This will lock the area as a selected.
- Using the Scissors, click on the outside area to trim out what you do not want. A dialog box will come up with this option selected.
- Export the route as normal, saving the name you wish to use.
- Close the DEM
- Close the Raster Map
- DO NOT SAVE THE TRIMMED MAP
- Open the Raster Map
- Open DEM

- Repeat again for the next section. You can determine the exact location to start from by referring to the coordinates which are exported from the previous section.
 
I have another for handling GEO-PDF maps. That process has really changed a lot and that needs to be completely revised thanks to a server overhaul.
 
I demand map server not be overhauled... lol.... Anyway... thanks so much... I'm giving this a try.

Well... ok... USA TOPO ended up looking worse than all of them so far. :(

 
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I like to use for Map Tile Servers "MS Bing(Virt. Earth)" and for tile type "Orthophoto" for map tile servers and set to "Map images along path" for detail. I don't know if that makes sense?
Dean
 
I like to use for Map Tile Servers "MS Bing(Virt. Earth)" and for tile type "Orthophoto" for map tile servers and set to "Map images along path" for detail. I don't know if that makes sense?
Dean

That makes a lot of sense, but there's a texture issue when you bring them into Trainz that affects those in a similar manner as it does the topographic maps.

For the topo maps, there is an alternative that looks a lot better using GEO-PDFs, they can be placed on the map area and produce very satisfying results. The GEO-PDF images need to be processed within TransDEM then placed in order to cover the map.

There are some great instructions on how to do this right in the TransDEM documentation. Getting the maps over at the NGS is a different story because what used to be so simple has become yet another C-F.


2020-08-07 121048.jpg
 
John,
Just to make sure we're on the same page(No pun intended) are you talking about saving as the UTM tiles(scenery)?
Dean
 
John,
Just to make sure we're on the same page(No pun intended) are you talking about saving as the UTM tiles(scenery)?
Dean

No, Dean. I'm talking about actual GEO-PDF files downloaded from the National Geologic Survey server. These are placed as geo-referenced images then tweaked in TransDEM. Each pdf is loaded individually saved then loaded one after another to build the final image.

There's a tutorial in the TransDEM documentation on that. I need to write up how to obtain the files from the NGS which has been horribly changed after working perfectly the old way for a decade. That sounds a bit too familiar, I think!
 
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