Inaccurate Locomotives

[DARTrider]

Hi All.
Disclaimer: This is all my own opinion, If you like it, then take this with a grain of salt.
Not to rain on any content creator's parade, but take a look at this image:

On the left, a DLS SD70ACe model, On the right, SPorBUST's model. Which is accurate? Well, its SPorBUST! The dynamic brakes are supposed to be flush with the radiators not with the hood line! It also doesn't put out nearly as much exhaust as the one on the left. Seriously, I can't believe that there are so many inaccurate models on the DLS! I am a locomotive nerd and I cannot stand looking at an incorrectly modeled locomotive. But that doesn't mean its bad, its still great! Custom cab, great horn and bell sounds and an amazing 710G sound effect. Another one to compare to: (Image credit to sjilly on the TrainzPortal).

Versus:

What is off about the one above? Well, the horn and bell are the first to go, the bell sounding like it came from an Interurban car and the horn is somewhat of a K5LA. Next to go is the front nose: The windshields don't go down to the nose IRL! The logo is also more massive than the real life counterpart, frame is a bit lower to the ground and the nose is taller. The font on the numberboards and cab is also incorrect, and to top it all off, the textures on the fuel tank are just images with no 3d! I will not say who made these so I'm not kicked off the forums, but I don't like seeing incorrect locomotives! It really triggers me when they are used in videos and such. Plus, the aforementioned model and the incorrect SD70ACe have been reskinned and made more of than the correct ones, which makes it so less experienced Trainz users will snatch up one or two of these. Some of these are also in incorrect paint jobs! Conrail, Burlington Northern, GTW, Amtrak, China, CEFX, ATSF, Citirail, Ferromex, FEC, MoPac, Southern RR, Monongahela, Southern Pacific, DRGW and Gulf Coast Railroad never owned ET44AC's! Plus, some are incorrectly skinned! KCS never had Grey Ghost ET44AC's! It just doesn't make sense how these are still on the DLS with hundreds, even thousands of downloads and no one has said a thing! Next time you want an SD70ACe, look at n8phu's site, and next time you want an ET44AC, ask around to see where you can get a proper one. Thanks.

P.S I do not mean to bash any creator of these or create hate surrounding them, I just want everyone to know that there are incorrect models and if they want to have ultimate realism, they should stay away from these.

 

[euromodeller]

How to put people off from publishing their hard work in one easy lesson.

Get real, average Joe wouldn't know any difference!

This is a hobby not a museum exhibit.

You don't mean to bash ant creator? hmm, you just did!

 

[kcwright_rm]

^^^ agreed with above, and FYI The SPorBust model is the correct one, Daves is a bit low. that also segways into the main disrespect, dave specifically said his models might not be accurate and want people to lay off him. You adding to it is pretty mean.

 

[Forester1]

I for one would not notice. I can tell you just about any make, model, and year of car, but locos all look the same to me. And some creators specifically state that their locos are FICTIONAL, so if Burlington Northern did not have that loco, well they do now. The creators obviously aren't working from an original photograph to create fictional locos. Yeah, if I am running a historical prototype route, I may want to take care to run prototypical locos and rolling stock, but otherwise I would not worry about it much.

 

[JCitron]

I agree with Graham. How to ruin one's day!

What you've said applies to a lot of things that require compromise, and let's face it, you can say the same about the latest Tyco, Riverossi, Arnold, Athearn, Bachmann, Model Power, Lifelike, Kato, Atlas, and... many other models that are sold for quite a lot of money these days. The surround sound systems in some of these models sounds like a horn that's stuffed in a plastic box. That, by the way, isn't much different than what we run into with our models and that's due to both hardware as well as software limitations we are dealt with.

Unless you have the bucks to spend on both, meaning go out and purchase a recording contract and hire a crew to record train sounds, edit the clips to perfection, then give N3V the money to rewrite the underlying game engine, this is impossible, and probably wouldn't make a hill of beans difference. You see we have built-in sound circuits with crappy drivers, or horrible sound cards such as some of the Creative Labs offerings, along with snot-sized speakers not counting a laptop with quarter and dime-sized speakers out of which we expect to hear all the subtleties of horns, bells, and engine sounds, let alone all the ambient sounds and other sounds as well.

Unless an asset is built-in, you can modify it within limits, and if you are concerned about the bell and horn, go ahead and replace them with something else you like as well as reskin them. The only thing you can't do is alter the mesh directly.

 

[johnwhelan]

If you want to count rivets then most models will be incorrect in some minor detail. However the ones that exist bring pleasure to many. You're getting them for free for the most part. I recommend you take the time to learn Blender, it does take time to build the models, a couple of mine took two years to build. After building your first one or two you might be more forgiving especially when you find that plans don't always align with what was built. This is especially true of historical times.

Basically if you want content creators to create free content catch them doing something right and encourage them. If you want to annoy them and push them to giving up just carry on as you are.

Cheerio John

 

[ldowns]

This is certainly why I don't post any of the many reskins I've made for use on my own routes. In many cases these fill a gap with the idea that a more accurate reskin can be made later if time permits. These would probably be useful to others as well for the same reason, but with the rivet counters hard at work it just isn't worth the flames.

We're fortunate that people like seniorchief didn't hold their beautiful semaphore models off the DLS just because some would complain that they aren't animated but snap into position. I'm thrilled to have them.

--Lamont

 

[boc61]

I gotta agree with the consensus here. I know railroads "inspire" a certain amount of nerdiness in all of us, we wouldn't be here otherwise, but there are some that I think need to step back a bit. I also understand that for some, obsessive attention to details is something that they don't have a lot of control over. Personally, I couldn't at first glance tell a GP38 from a GP40 or an F7 from an F3 , and frankly don't care. Even if I could, the fact that the creator put a hatch in the wrong spot or didn't make the cab exactly like the real thing wouldn't matter anyway.

I don't create anything in Trainz, I rely on those that do. I am happy to pay for good content, but am especially grateful to the many people who provide quality stuff for free. I come across things that I don't like, think don't look good and what not, I just delete them. I still appreciate the effort the person made, even their worst is more than I can do. If you don't like something or find it not accurate enough for you, feel free to make your own.

As far as "XYZ Railroad never owned ABC locomotive".....Who cares? Besides you, evidently. Trainz is make believe, one of it's strengths is that we can have to railroad that WE want. Do you complain about fictional routes as well?

You said you didn't mean to slag on anyone and then did exactly that, and said you just wanted to let everyone know about these failings. Who appointed you as the DLS Quality Control Officer?

 

[DARTrider]

I've seen your comments. This post was wrong of me, I shouldn't have posted. I am deeply sorry I put off so many people. Please remove the post so no one else has to look and get mad. I'm sorry. Even though this is my opinion, that doesn't mean I have to share it with the world. Dave's content is amazing and is good for what it's made for. The horn is easily replaceable and I love how there are so many reskins, even though most are not prototypical. I owe everyone, especially Dave, an apology. This is my opinion, and should've been kept to myself. Thank you for understanding.

 

[hiawathamr]

Well, its freeware. You really shouldn't complain about it as you aren't paying anything to download and use them... as I've heard several people say, if you don't like it, go and create your own using Blender https://www.blender.org/

Creators of freeware don't have to upload it and share it with the communities, they very easily could've kept it all to theirselves or make it payware.

Cheers

 

[KotangaGirl]

I find it difficult to see the OP's comments as being either constructive or useful. If he wants perfect models then perhaps he should undertake hours of research and find out everything about his chosen prototype along with as many drawings and photographs as he can find and then commision a skilled digital locomotive builder to make a model to his exacting standards. Having been through this process myself to commision 19th century Uk models I can tell you that (a) it takes a lot of time to do the research and (b) it costs real money. The more exacting you want to go with your specifications, the more money it costs. So if somebody makes something that's nearly right for free take it and be grateful. And remembering to say 'thank you' is always nice, - those of us who provide freeware models to the Trainz community don't often get to hear that said very often.

 

[johnwhelan]

I've seen your comments. This post was wrong of me, I shouldn't have posted. I am deeply sorry I put off so many people. Please remove the post so no one else has to look and get mad. I'm sorry. Even though this is my opinion, that doesn't mean I have to share it with the world. Dave's content is amazing and is good for what it's made for. The horn is easily replaceable and I love how there are so many reskins, even though most are not prototypical. I owe everyone, especially Dave, an apology. This is my opinion, and should've been kept to myself. Thank you for understanding.

It's called learning by experience. Research is actually about 30% or more of content creation. Rivet counters can be useful, I have a couple of what I call subject matter specialists on tap to consult on the alpha and betas. The end result is better than just me making a box but sometimes I will accept the input but then say the effort of changing or adding in another 200 rivets is too much and that has to be accepted as well.

Cheerio John

 

[DARTrider]

Thank you.

 

[davesnow]

"A perfectionist is someone who takes great pains. . . and gives them to others."

 

[ozark]

I've seen your comments. This post was wrong of me, I shouldn't have posted. I am deeply sorry I put off so many people. Please remove the post so no one else has to look and get mad. I'm sorry. Even though this is my opinion, that doesn't mean I have to share it with the world. Dave's content is amazing and is good for what it's made for. The horn is easily replaceable and I love how there are so many reskins, even though most are not prototypical. I owe everyone, especially Dave, an apology. This is my opinion, and should've been kept to myself. Thank you for understanding.

Don't ever apologize for voicing an opinion and yes it's alright to share with the world.

 

[pware]

Hands up all those who have never posted before switching on their "social filter" - I am guilty of this.

Expressing your opinion is never the problem. It is the context, the style of the expression and the way it is interpreted by the reader(s) that is usually the problem.

You did start your post with a warning

Disclaimer: This is all my own opinion, If you like it, then take this with a grain of salt.

but most readers would have forgotten that by halfway through your post.

For the record I did not have a clue about anything you were commenting on - I would not know what dynamic brakes looked like (and really I do not care).

Where, in my opinion (that's my disclaimer), you went wrong was turning a post about inaccuracies in loco modelling (a context issue) into a rant (style of expression) which never goes down well.

The interpretation or "spin" readers will often place on a post is largely a product of its context and style.

Criticising freeware is always a risky activity in these forums. It is too easily interpreted as a criticism of the creator just as much as their product. There are many posts complaining, often correctly, about the poor quality of many DLS assets. I look back at the very first routes I posted to the DLS and I cringe with embarrassment.

To be honest, I do not know how I would have written your post if it had been a topic that had gotten under my skin. I would have had a long hard look at my post and there would have been a lot of editing and re-editing before I clicked the Post button, and there have been many occasions where I ended up clicking the Cancel button instead.

 

[hert]

I think a lot of us, who have been with Trainz for a long time are a little more appreciative of any content that is released. As not so long ago you didnt have the mass variety as you have now. I play mostly with the tracking and chase cameras so I have never really cared for the cabs, which I know some people really want realistic cabs and functioning cabs. I am just glad the talented creators have shared there works that I can enjoy them in my own game.

 

[crazytrain]

Truth be told the is somewhat why I started making my own locomotives, however......



It's also the reason I haven't released most of em!

 

[ZecMurphy]

In all honesty, I don't see this thread going anywhere constructive at this point.

When looking at content you have downloaded for free, you very much need to be mindful that someone has put a lot of work and effort into it to provide that item for free. Depending on what skills they have, and what information they had access to, it may not be perfect (but then rarely anything actually is - that's from experience even with my own content!).

If you feel it is actually an issue that the creator may not have known about, then politely contacting them and offering that information to them without demanding they change it (something along the lines of "Hi creator, I was looking at your model and noticed that the dynamic brake fan didn't line up with the radiators properly; I'm not sure if you were aware of this so I thought I'd let you know; you can see this in the photo I've attached", or similar) can generally work well. Be mindful that not all creators may take feedback well, but so long as you are polite and offer it in a constructive/helpful way then it will generally be fine.

But again, be mindful that not all creators may wish to update/change their models after release, or may simply be happy with the model as it is.

Regards