In way over my head...wiith tunnel construction

MarkusP

New member
Hello Trainz Gurus,

I am a shiny new Trainz builder, with TANE.

I have made a lot of progress with Surveyor, but am having some difficulty figuring out the correct procedure for making a tunnel.
I was able to use dighole, to create the portal locations, but am unable to find existing structures close enough to matching
the real-life location that I am attempting to replicate (the actual portals are essentially poured concrete retaining walls).
I have also not been able to locate an internal tunnel spline, (like a square concrete tube, with track,) that would save me from
the mess I have made (haha).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0kckw3co9l5cm39/2015-10-03 052600.jpg?dl=0

I have successfully used concrete wall spines to create the tunnel sides, but because of where dighole insists on making the holes,
my tunnel has a bit of an S-curve to it. Now, I have spent hours trying to place track with spline points under the surface plane,
and placing a spline concrete slab with control points below that as the tunnel floor (and later a ceiling), and all with zero elevation change.
This is impossible, and clearly the incorrect method, as I am attempting to manipulate control points under the ground surface by sighting
through the digholes!!! :'(

All this because I have not been able to locate much in the way of modern single-track portals that will work with TANE ( v3.5 and later,
as I understand it).

Questions:

1. Is it even possible to create a s-curve tunnel using concrete spline walls (and slabs for floor and ceiling) and have them make acceptable
looking portals?
2. Is there any tutorial available on how to correctly go about building tunnels and placing track, when the tunnel has one or more internal curves?
3. If I am going about this in completely the wrong way (which I am,) and there is no tutorial available, can someone give me a clue? :udrool:

Thanks in advance for any help. I have not even begun to attempt session programming, but maybe this will be the last great mystery of route
construction for me (fingers crossed).

Mark P.
 
Hi Mark,

Tunnels are a pain in the butt. There's no other way to say this other than they are a pain. That is, however, unless you use the non-snapping-to-grid kind. There are some tunnel splines that are tracks that work like tunnels. Some have tunnel entrances while others are track. This means you can bend them and twist them like you want and they don't stick to the grid.

Sadly I can't think of any offhand at the moment, so I can't come up with any direct recommendations. This always happens it seems! Anyway, with these tunnel tracks, you simply lay them down at the height you want. You let them bury themselves in the ground, and with the wireframe mode you can adjust their height and location. With the tunnel in place, you can then put in a dighole on either end, or maybe digholes to clear the track. For those that are just track without entrances on them, you can use a scenery type tunnel entrance which fits over the tunnel.

It's not perfect, but it surely beats fighting with the grid on these things. In the event you see a tunnel you like which attacks the grid, notice the world attack!, you can modify the asset's characteristics and turn the tunnel into a piece of track with tunnel-like characteristics I mentioned above.

Hope this helps some or at least gets you thinking about it. :)

John
 
Thanks for the info, John.

I think you've started me in the right direction.
I haven't tried modifying anything in the config file yet (I assume that's what you mean) but it looks like that does add a lot of functionality.
One more thing to learn.;)


Mark
 
Thanks for the info, John.

I think you've started me in the right direction.
I haven't tried modifying anything in the config file yet (I assume that's what you mean) but it looks like that does add a lot of functionality.
One more thing to learn.;)


Mark

You're welcome and yeah, that's what I mean. It's another whole world you can get into with Trainz. All in due time. If you need any help feel free to post here and even PM me.

John
 
I made a box tunnel that's on the DLS that works like this. Actually, there are several parts though I may not have uploaded them all yet. It's probably not what you need, since it's a 4-track commuter-style tunnel, but you can take a look at the config and apply it to your needs. I don't remember if I made the top one-way visible i.e. you can see down into it from the top so that you can move your track, but it looks like a regular tunnel when you're driving through it.

I may make a tunnel more like yours at some point.
 
Hi Mark,
We've all had to start somewhere and generally we can only learn from others or the mistakes we personally make.

I've never been one to use dig-holes for tunnels because once you do, then you spend so much time finding things to camouflage or cover it up; and then it may not 'look' right.

There are a number of spline tunnels with built in tracks which can be suitably used on most layouts. The important thing to remember when you use them, is to make sure you have sufficient ground height above them (25.0 m at least) and it covers the entire length of the tunnel. This will give a clear view through the tunnel in both surveyor or driver mode. The beauty of the 'spline' is that it will bend to whatever your mind wishes. Make sure that you use the 'grid' display so that you can position your spline points to get smooth track curves. Use your height adjustment tool to fix the height of each spline point. You can use tunnels to raise track levels to different heights and it will still look good.

Looking at your screen shot, it may be more prudent to give yourself a little more space between the end of your bridge and the start of your tunnel. Never try to directly connect a bridge to a tunnel - make sure there is a tiny piece of regular track between the two objects. If you do connect the bridge to the tunnel direct, you'll find the tunnel will be blocked by ground cover and you'll miss out on the clear view through.

Here's a few that I have used successfully .... Tunnel Euro (2 or 1 tracks); Tunnel QR (1 trk); Tunnel QR Cat (1 trk); Tunnel Stone (2 trk); Tunnel Stone Low (2 trk); Tunnel Stone Low Cat (2 trk); Tunnel Swiss Narrow (2 trk)

If there is nothing that you like, experiment with dig-holes and I wish you luck.

Cheers,
Roy3b3
 
AndiO6 has a rectangular tunnel (look for AJSTunnel kit) with neat portal script that puts you in cab view as you go through the tunnel. Like everything Andi makes, it works exactly as it should.
If you can get your tunnel entrances in line with the grid its much easier to fill in the spaces left by the digholes.
Mick
 
Thanks for the info. Interesting that it's possible to make something one-way visible, I will check it out.
 
Thanks for the info Roy,

Here is a Google Earth image of the tunnel in question. It turns out there is room for some regular track, the DEM that I acquired does not
show it this way, which will make things a bit easier.The problem is there's no room for the 25m "roof" and I am still learning what is and
isn't possible.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/he930mv5gs67qx0/tunnel.JPG?dl=0


 
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Thanks for the info Roy,

Here is a Google Earth image of the tunnel in question. It turns out there is room for some regular track, the DEM that I acquired does not
show it this way, which will make things a bit easier.The problem is there's no room for the 25m "roof" and I am still learning what is and
isn't possible.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/he930mv5gs67qx0/tunnel.JPG?dl=0



I did say 25m height for tunnels but I just checked and found 'Tunnel Euro (2 track) only requires 15m coverage to give a clear view through the tunnel - it's just trial and error to see what works best for you.
If you've got to work with less height then you could either use two retaining walls for your tunnel walls with a slab over the top.

Looking at the Google Earth image I think you could get away with the Tunnel Euro. Another way to get sufficient height is to lower your track height slightly coming off your bridge. I notice the cars parked up to a fence and so the track could be easily set a couple of feet lower.

Good luck, cheers,
Roy3b3

PS: Just checked 'Tunnel 1 track' and 'Tunnel 2 track' and they only require 10m coverage - they even have internal lighting.
 
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I've been away from the forums for a few days, and I just came across this thread. I have several dig hole tunnels and portals on my web site. (click on my sig below) The portals are constructed so that they completely cover the dig holes. There is also a tutorial on how to place these portals and tunnels. You may also find them in my newer routes. (Cumberland to Harpers Ferry, Murrysville & Western, and Gorre & Daphetid) With the exception of my routes, all of my content is on the DLS under jrfolco or kuid 73500. They also work well in T:ane.

Joe
 
Thanks Roy, I will give them a look. The problem with concrete slabs is that they are very thick. As you can see, the elevation above the tunnel is quite low.I tried using a slab, and found I would have to drop the rails more than 10 feet! I'll give Tunnel Euro a try.

Thanks Again!
 
Mark,

For tunnels you might be interested in LP Tunnel by josefpav

Go here to have a look. You will need to use your login, just as you do here, to get there.
https://www.auran.com/DLS/index.php


http://auran.com/trainz/downloads/buildingsstructures/kuid2_46162_38101_11.jpg


Type: Buildings / Structures | Version: TS2009 | KUID2: <KUID2:46162:38101:11> | Filesize: 952.19 kb | File Type: .cdp | Downloads: 52169


This might be the tunnel you'll find useful.

Anyway... It looks like you are putting in the tunnel for the Green Mountain Railroad up in Bellows Falls. User bendorsey (Ben Dorsey) made some bridges for that area. He's the 'bridge man' around here. Are you including the Chesire Branch of the B&M, or is this modern times?

John
 
On this subject, I like to bring to the table the sound of trains passing by tunnels. In TS12 I have used an elaborate system to do this using extra tracks with bridge sound. But this track does not work in T:ane, or I have not been able to make it work. There are tons of tunnel tracks, but are any of them having the "proper" sound?
 
PS: Just checked 'Tunnel 1 track' and 'Tunnel 2 track' and they only require 10m coverage - they even have internal lighting.

Thanks Roy,

I now realized that I probably should have been asking about "viaducts". I suspect the high coverage and vaulted ceilings of most tunnels probably have to do with the amount of overhead (mountain) weight they have to support. I think I have something that will work for now, but this may be my first content creation task down the road.
 
Wow, Bellows Falls, spot on!

I think you may be the guy I need to speak with! ;)
Since I am learning everything from scratch, rather than try to research the full history of this area, I thought I would just do a "modern times" version, thinking it will be easier to replicate accurately. I now have a set of baseboards that could eventually cover the entire States rail system. For now, I am focused on the Green Mountain line from Bellows Falls to Rutland. I did see the bendorsey bridges on the DLS, and will likely need them, eventually. I also found the North Walpole Roundhouse, which was quite a surprise, and have already put it to use.

I think I will eventually have to create that tunnel, which I am now thinking really is a viaduct. That learning curve will have to wait a while, as it is actually a part of the Amtrak Vermonter line. I do have a few questions unrelated to this thread, and will PM you with them, if you don't mind. Perhaps you can direct me where I need to go to begin learning all that I will need to complete this (someday) as a high quality route.

Thanks Again John!
 
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