I'm discouraged

[Apogee10]

I just finished reading all the new posts in the forum and am discouraged by what I see happening in the Trainz community. I have been a fan since UTC.
I bought TRS2004 and, along with TrainzObjectz, thought that Auran had a winner. I bought TRS2006 and after a couple of months I removed it and went back to TRS2004. I bought TRS2009 when it first came out and have yet to install it. From what I read in the forum I probably never will.

In the 2003-2005 time frame the forum was filled with results(and questions) from the community about content creation and routes. Now, most of the post seem to be about problems with the software.

I feel like Auran is not taking advantage of the hugh fan base they have built over the years. If they had built upon the successful TRS2004 we would have a much better product than we now seem to have. I know that they are in the business to make money but they could have made a fortune on spinoffs and accessories.

I'm going to continue to be a fan of Trainz and participate in the forum because when the problems with TRS2009 are solved and it runs as reliable as TRS2004 I will probably switch to TRS2009.

Earl

 

[ct_krogen]

i been with trainz from the demo game,,with any sotware there will be problems due to the many computer setups and os running, i think auran is doing a good job, with the few programmgers there

 

[johnwhelan]

I just finished reading all the new posts in the forum and am discouraged by what I see happening in the Trainz community. I have been a fan since UTC.
I bought TRS2004 and, along with TrainzObjectz, thought that Auran had a winner. I bought TRS2006 and after a couple of months I removed it and went back to TRS2004. I bought TRS2009 when it first came out and have yet to install it. From what I read in the forum I probably never will.

In the 2003-2005 time frame the forum was filled with results(and questions) from the community about content creation and routes. Now, most of the post seem to be about problems with the software.

I feel like Auran is not taking advantage of the hugh fan base they have built over the years. If they had built upon the successful TRS2004 we would have a much better product than we now seem to have. I know that they are in the business to make money but they could have made a fortune on spinoffs and accessories.

I'm going to continue to be a fan of Trainz and participate in the forum because when the problems with TRS2009 are solved and it runs as reliable as TRS2004 I will probably switch to TRS2009.

Earl

I think in the early days what you saw was people trying to find out new ways to do things. There was a lot of promise and people were exploring the possibilities. It didn't take a lot of effort to throw something new together.

These days the content creation side has to some extent moved across to Trainzdev, wikibook trainz is the place to go for faq type questions. As the product has matured so the simple stuff has been covered. Content creation has changed substantially, expectations are higher, we use scripts more and Normal mapping. This takes more time to create.

The quantity of new items appearing on the DLS was much lower. I hate to think what the number of new items per day is on the DLS would it be appropriate to fill the forum with a post for each one.

There has been a certain splitting of the forum. The UK side in particular requested a separate section but their request was ignored so now they hang out more at the UK forum.

Is TS2009 so very different from TRS2004? The computers we run on have changed out of recognition the graphics cards are much more powerful than they were in 2002. Auran basically have tweaked the code to take advantage of this. It still uses the much the same code in the game engine. Yes some bits have evolved and the error checking is tighter, it is still capable of running the same assets. The posts on software problems you've seen are basically it is a more complex product with more capabilities it needs more testing. I personally think it's a fair bit more robust than TRS2004. I don't think it's very different. TRS2004 is capable of running most of the newer stuff, not quite as well and CM2 is a big improvement for managing assets.

Cheerio John

 

[Stagefright]

I also have been with Trainz since nearly the beginning. I recall the 'good old days' of dozens of drooling smilies with every new route & feature. I too have purchased every iteration of the sim and find myself spending the most time with 2004.

I believe in Auran and Trainz. My understanding is that the Brew Crew (are they still using that moniker?) are just a small company with limited resources.

Why do I stick around? Simple: I love trains! I'm an armchair model railroader with absolutely no room to have a layout. I discovered virtual railroading nearly a decade ago and am hooked. Trainz, with all its faults and shortcomings, is the best available. Most important: there is a kinship with like-minded men and women, from all corners of the world, who selflessly give their time to create routes, locos, rolling stock, and structures to share with the community.

Darrel

 

[zatovisualworks]

I love Trainz (even TS2009 :hehe because it fits one of my dearest mottos:

Trainz has been so and will be... and that's what I like... tasting the flavour of solving issues.

BTW, don't you remember, good old trainzy friends, that famous thread on the old forum about 'fourers (whining) and 'sixers (sunblowing)? :wave:

Currently the situation is more complex:

*Fourers (fewer as time goes by but still on it)
*Sixers (convinced and relaxed since SP1 was convincing)
*Classickers only (rara avis but worth fostering them because Classics 3 was remarkably well-done)
*Niners (all of them thinking of the future to come and almost touching it)
*Collectors (Most of us -we own all versions but have our favourite and are reluctant to give way to the next one even though we do know it's better and contains the future of Trainz)

I still enjoy Trainz, I still don't take it too seriously so as to endanger my real life outside there and I still think TS2009 SP3 will do it... :hehe:

The Sixer side of Alberte :wave:

 

[Sourdough]

... I recall the 'good old days' of dozens of drooling smilies with every new route & feature.

Not to worry....there were plenty of frowning and mad smilies too....the 'good old days' are usually a case of selective memory...

 

[obo]

...the 'good old days' are usually a case of selective memory...

How utterly true, and I wouldn't argue if you removed the "usually".

Regards,

Rob.

 

[leeferr]

It's all relative. If our worst fears came to fruition and Auran closed down the forums and the DLS, then we'd probably remember anything Trainz related as the 'good ole days'. The 'good ole days' is relative to our experience with it.
Mike

 

[Apogee10]

Great discussion. I particularly like to hear the optimism from the community. I have been a Trainz fan for years and will continue to be. I hope that Auran sticks with TRS2009 and develops it into the product that it has the capability to become.

Earl

 

[illinoiscentral]

Discouragement?

I see no reason to be discourages, in fact I think that with the proper improvements, Trainz will become a better franchise than it is now.
I know that this often times raises alot of mixed opinions, but if Auran does not improve the things in need, RailSimulator will surpass Trainz in the next few years, sure RailSim isn't all that great now, but it will be.
You can be pigheaded if you want and say it will never happen, but that is inmature and quite stupid.
RailSim has been on the market less than 4 years, so naturally it is still new.
However Trainz has been around for many years and still hasn't come a whole lot farther than it started.
If anything, the community has brought it along over the years...think about that...Jointed Rail doesn't come with the game when you buy it.
The base product still is a sad state of being, still the same old thing it has been for years.
It says alot when the main DLS page (at least the one that comes up on the above link) still brings up the 2004 DLS, Can Auran not update it to at least advertise TS2009?!
Trainz is in need of an overhaul, one that Auran claims they have already done, but they haven't.
I'm not terribly impressed with what I've seen of TS2009, it looks like the same old stuff covered by Auran's policy of covering up the junk with a few patches of paint here and there.

Remember, You can put all the stucco you want over them bricks...
...but eventually the building will fall!

I've said it to many times before, Auran needs to start from scratch.
Start over, next year will be 2010, the perfect time to do so.
It is time to get on the ball and get us out of Dark Territory and back on CTC!
Does anyone else want to see some major change?!


Woody

 

[zatovisualworks]

No problem, Woody. At my age I sometimes like feeling 'immature and quite stupid'! It makes me feel younger :hehe:

The riping side of Alberte :wave:

 

[aardvark1]

I see no reason to be discourages, in fact I think that with the proper improvements, Trainz will become a better franchise than it is now.
I know that this often times raises alot of mixed opinions, but if Auran does not improve the things in need, RailSimulator will surpass Trainz in the next few years, sure RailSim isn't all that great now, but it will be.
You can be pigheaded if you want and say it will never happen, but that is inmature and quite stupid.
RailSim has been on the market less than 4 years, so naturally it is still new.
However Trainz has been around for many years and still hasn't come a whole lot farther than it started.
If anything, the community has brought it along over the years...think about that...Jointed Rail doesn't come with the game when you buy it.
The base product still is a sad state of being, still the same old thing it has been for years.
It says alot when the main DLS page (at least the one that comes up on the above link) still brings up the 2004 DLS, Can Auran not update it to at least advertise TS2009?!
Trainz is in need of an overhaul, one that Auran claims they have already done, but they haven't.
I'm not terribly impressed with what I've seen of TS2009, it looks like the same old stuff covered by Auran's policy of covering up the junk with a few patches of paint here and there.

Remember, You can put all the stucco you want over them bricks...
...but eventually the building will fall!

I've said it to many times before, Auran needs to start from scratch.
Start over, next year will be 2010, the perfect time to do so.
It is time to get on the ball and get us out of Dark Territory and back on CTC!
Does anyone else want to see some major change?!


Woody

WOW Woody,

Some very interesting projections in your post....guess with your newly acquired journalistic abilities you can now make comments about the future and the things that Auran needs to do to save itself and the world.

Seems your outlook for Auran is very negative.... is that the way TM will be going in the future?

You may want to do some writing for Railsim..... they will be happy with your negative projections about Auran. TIP......You may want to learn how to use a spell checker before applying at Railsim.

Oh listen...... someone is knocking at your door. Wow, Mr. Reality is paying you a visit, you need to listen and learn from him. You need to really learn about how a business operates, needs sales and cash..... from Mr. Reality.

BTW.... is this your October article for TM? What is the article headline.... AURAN STINKS???

Oh yes, the OP of this thread posted before you, and seems quite content with things.

Have a happy day,

 

[illinoiscentral]

Hello Aardvark,

I understand where you are coming from and what you are saying.
In fact I was thinking about the whole business thing as I wrote, perhaps I didn't write it right.
What I'm meaning to say is that instead of releasing new versions year after year, Auran needs to save up and invest for the future, moreover invest in overhauling the next version.

I also like what you said about 'Mr. Reality" he has come to my door many of a time, and each time, I've offered him a drink and asked him to sit and talk with me.

No, my TM articles will not give negative outlook for Auran, rather they will be geared more for the reader in the way that they will be a joy to read, depending on who you are and what your own opinoin is, my column is an opinions column and will be nothing less.
My opinion is written for you to enjoy or hate.
That is why each issue includes a 'Letters To Woody" section where by PMing me, your letter will appear in my column.

I appreciate and enjoy what you have to say.

With Respect,
Woody

 

[johnwhelan]

No, my TM articles will not give negative outlook for Auran, rather they will be geared more for the reader in the way that they will be a joy to read, depending on who you are and what your own opinoin is, my column is an opinions column and will be nothing less.
My opinion is written for you to enjoy or hate.

I've always thought opinions are rather boring made by people who make wild guesses about what is happening.

Much more interesting to actually look at the problem and work out what can be done and what can't be done. The Trainz advantage is an awful lot of content has been made for it. If you start again from scratch that content won't work. Evolving slowly which is what Auran are doing is not bad approach, even if they would like to evolve a little quicker at the moment.

Cheerio John

 

[Mike10]

I know that this often times raises alot of mixed opinions, but if Auran does not improve the things in need, RailSimulator will surpass Trainz in the next few years, sure RailSim isn't all that great now, but it will be.
You can be pigheaded if you want and say it will never happen, but that is inmature and quite stupid.

So anyone who disagrees with you is pigheaded, immature and stupid, nice attitude.

RailSim has been on the market less than 4 years, so naturally it is still new.

I'd say 4 years is quite a while actually, hardly new.

However Trainz has been around for many years and still hasn't come a whole lot farther than it started.

Load up the original Trainz and compare, then you'll realise how far it has come.

If anything, the community has brought it along over the years...think about that...Jointed Rail doesn't come with the game when you buy it.

Community involvement is one of Trainz strengths, surely.
Jointed Rail not included? couldn't give a stuff personally, and it probably makes no difference to at least 90% of purchasers I'd say.

The base product still is a sad state of being, still the same old thing it has been for years.

Not true, many , many upgrades and additions have taken place to features.
Anyway, that's the thing with an evolutionary rather than revolutionary approach. Each change seems small in itself but compared to where we started it is a big change.

It says alot when the main DLS page (at least the one that comes up on the above link) still brings up the 2004 DLS, Can Auran not update it to at least advertise TS2009?!

That's because TRS2006, TC1&2, TC3, TS2009 all have a content manager application rather than needing the website.

Trainz is in need of an overhaul, one that Auran claims they have already done, but they haven't.

In your opinion, I think they've done plenty of overhauling personally.

I'm not terribly impressed with what I've seen of TS2009, it looks like the same old stuff covered by Auran's policy of covering up the junk with a few patches of paint here and there.

Evolution, not revolution. Look deeper and you will see there are substantial changes.

Remember, You can put all the stucco you want over them bricks...
...but eventually the building will fall!

Remember, Opinions are like noses, everyone has them
(cleaned that one up)

I've said it to many times before, Auran needs to start from scratch.
Start over, next year will be 2010, the perfect time to do so.
It is time to get on the ball and get us out of Dark Territory and back on CTC!
Does anyone else want to see some major change?!

Send them your cheque, $3m should get them started.

Woody

Nope, can't find anything wrong with that bit.

Mike.

 

[Driver_Col]

Just gotta get my 10 cents worth in here!

Well said Mike - Trainz has developed, is appreciated, is loved, has cost me a fortune in pc upgrades to maximize my pleasure and has kept me out of trouble for quite a few years now.

Of course it is not perfect ...... but what is? Certainly nothing in my world.

Will I disagree with various Auran decisions? Of course! It is easy to be an armchair critic especially when one is not responsible for the end result.

Will I buy TS2009? Well actually I did a long time ago now and it is gathering dust because I prefer TC3. Does not bother me? Just a little .... but then I have to take responsibility for my purchases and I have wasted far more money on lesser things.

There you are! Colin highlighting some of his shortcomings and feeling very typically human about it.

:wave:

Colin.

 

[illinoiscentral]

I've always thought opinions are rather boring made by people who make wild guesses about what is happening.

Much more interesting to actually look at the problem and work out what can be done and what can't be done. The Trainz advantage is an awful lot of content has been made for it. If you start again from scratch that content won't work. Evolving slowly which is what Auran are doing is not bad approach, even if they would like to evolve a little quicker at the moment.

Cheerio John

John,
You have an excellent point there!
What I am meaning to say is that Auran needs to get rid of the old default content, not completely change the system itself.
Just simple fixs such as, get rid of the old bogies, etc.
They did a great job with the new stations from what I can see, and the new SD40-2 is much more appealing.
Needless to say,
I did not go about this subject in the right manner, rather this is what I should have explained before hand.
If I hated Auran and Trainz, why would I still be using it?
Perhaps I have been misunderstood by some of you, and perhaps I am wrong about some of what I said.
But is that not how life goes?
We are entitled to our opinions, I have a right to mine, you all have a right to yours, if you don't like mine, don't read it.
Many of a time I have heavily dis-liked some of everybody else's posts, and I'm sure it is vice-versa too.
As related to my writings in Trainz Magazine, read them if you want, feel free to write me a letter via PM, If you don't like them, don't read them, because I have more to do in life than worry about what people think about me.
I have opinion articles I never read in my local newspaper.
But still, I find your opinions very interesting, and I'm glad you guys post.


Cheers,
Woody

 

[American_Connections]

...to actually look at the problem and work out what can be done and what can't be done. The Trainz advantage is an awful lot of content has been made for it. If you start again from scratch that content won't work...

Cheerio John

John, listen to your own words! That seems to be exactly what Auran did with 09, as nothing made before was supossed to work for it, (yet most still does)!
Woody, don't fret, remenber that quote- "you can please some of the people all the time; you can please all the people some of the time; but you wull never please all the people all the time!"
I know from experience there in these forums, as some people has pissed me off and I now have a bad reputation because I stood up for what I believed in and stated such. Another thing is- 'they will forget all the good you have done and only remember the one bad thing."

 

[johnwhelan]

John,
You have an excellent point there!
What I am meaning to say is that Auran needs to get rid of the old default content, not completely change the system itself.
Just simple fixs such as, get rid of the old bogies, etc.

In general rule one in software upgrades never take functionality away from people. Getting rid of old ways of doing things and old content and bogies will always be hit by resistance.

If you are going to do something like this then upgrade the content with a new version and even then you can cause something to break especially for a TRS2004 user.

One major problem is that if you up the version number and make it a TS2009 only model then I don't think TRS2004 users will be able to find it on the DLS. Then you've broken layouts that use the asset.

Upgrades are never fun.

Cheerio John

 

[nicky9499]

John, swapping out the default trucks isn't going to break anybody's game. Most of the rolling stock and locs out there have nice trucks and they work in 04, no? Nobody was suggesting trucks that produced screeches on curves and glints in the sun.

With all due respect, the default bogies do the job but it's the year 2009, not 2004. TS09 stands for Trainz Simulator, not Virtual Model Railroading.

Cheerio,
Nicholas.