If I'm happy with TRS2004, then,...

[npr284]

Why should I upgrade to TS10 or TS12?

Are the "baseboards" capable of more detailed ground effects? Think I read this somewhere that the indivual tiny "squares" are now smaller allowing for more detail. If this is true, then I "may" need a faster computer, No?

I run trains strictly "AI" so don't need multi-player.

And really, how hard is it to import all the assets I have now into TS10/12?

These newer Trainz platforms do sound nice on the face of it for those just getting into the hobby, but what about the older folk who have labored hard thru the years to make a nice layout and/or design content for it, only to discover that the layout and content needs to be upgraded in some way? Efforts are underway now to "upgrade" existing content to newer standards. Does this mean the sim will run faster/better, on the same computer or will you need an even faster computer? Then the DLS would essentially double in size to hold two of everything!

And, what are "speedtreez"?

Thank you for reading and please share your thoughts if you care to.

Al

 

[aardvark1]

If you read all the posts in this thread, you will see the pro and con of TS12.

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=78542

Have fun,

 

[Euphod]

A great deal will depend on your PC, but if you are happy with 2004, then I see no reason for you to upgrade to something that may turn out to be a waste of time and money.
When I upgraded to 2006 it was only to see the trains keep their headlamps on during the day. Each subsequent upgrade was for some little thing or another, but each came with work as well.

 

[VinnyBarb]

One of the problems I can see for you is the non availability of quite a bit of old TRS04 content as some/most of these have been upgraded to TC1-3 configuration. Should you require such content, you need to reconfigure this upgraded content, so it might run in your TS04. Also, you have no way of knowing if this older, now upgraded content had been for TRS04 or TRS06 as the old TRS06 content might/will not run on your PC.

I agree with you, TRS04 had been one of the best versions ever, especial V2.4, which was very stable and did everything I wanted it to do. But sadly, (or rightfully, depending on your point of view) times have moved on and I find now TS10 is now getting pretty good. TS 12 is still not quite there yet but given times I am sure it will be one of the best Trainz versions again.

In TS 10, you could always run your existing layout in "compatibility" mode, which means, in essence you could/can run your TRS04 layout pretty much as it it is with the older TRS04 content by moving this across to the newer version of Trainz. Plus this will give you also the chance to exchange or add all the newer and often nicer/prettier looking content available now for an even better look of your layout. Again, one possibly would need a pretty nice/faster running PC for that.

I have created such a monster route of some 140 base boards or more and now run this in TS10, where I can still add and improve and build on to my imported original TRS04 route with the added bonus of having now all the latest scenery items, locomotives and rolling stock available (well, up to TS10) for it.

In TS 12, as far as I know, there is no such "compatibility" mode, hence you would need to reconfigure most of your old content there to make it run there, if at all and there you can ONLY use content which WILL run in it. As said, no "compatibility" mode there for these items which will not run there without errors.

Another thing to consider too is, content created for the later TS versions of Trainz is getting very elaborate and nice looking now but again, one needs a pretty fast PC to experience all these new and nice features.

Cheers

VinnyBarb

 

[RRSignal]

In a nutshell-

TS2010+ supports higher resolution, 5m baseboards, as I understand it. So your terrain can be more accurate. That's about 4 times the resolution of the old 10m baseboards.

I have never tried TRS2004, but the specifications for TS2010 and TS12 are more demanding. Even so, I've got them working quite well on my very low-end computer. I think a lot of the problems people have stem from the fact that they run OEM (brand-bame) computers that, among other things, are so loaded down with bloat that they don't run anything especially well. Then again, the average person isn't interested trying to optimize their machine and, say, go so far as to run separate ones for games and for internet, as I and many gamers do. I think that's why you get different answers depending on who you ask here.

A lot of content won't work as-is with TS2010 unless you are in compatibility mode. That isn't offered on TS12 so that's a major issue for some. Nearly all the content can be fixed, but it's a slow process. It can be fun though. Keep in mind the DLS Cleanup only applies to the DLS and not the content stored on the dozens if not hundreds of third-party Trainz sites out there. I don't feel most of the errors should have affected performance but there are some where it clearly could and should have, such as missing textures or textures stored in the wrong location. At any rate, if fixing broken content or waiting for it to be updated isn't your thing, stick with TS2010, run it in compatibility mode, and don't patch past version 44088.

As for Speedtrees, people either seem to love 'em or hate 'em. They should offer a performance boost in theory as they are processed by your video card rather than your CPU. I do not have a great frame of reference, but I don't think they offer much of a performance boost at all, but most of the trees look nicer than the older trees IMO.

Edit: As an addendum to the broken content issue, there is nowhere near as much faulty content as there was when I first started with Trainz less than two years ago. So, while the formal cleanup process is moving slowly, a lot more progress has been made than I think most people realize.

 

[fran1]

Why upgrade if your content with 04.

If your satisfied with 04 stay there.
I was very content with 06 no problems at all.
As Ed stated, will your comp run 10 or 12 with ease. You need at least the recommended specs (note at least, anything less is a no go).
If not it's going to cost you big time to get your system up to scratch, is it worth it to keep up with the Jones's just to run trainz, no it's not unless your retired with bags of spare time and money.

 

[sniper297]

Yeah, look at this;

http://www.auran.com/shop/TrainzSimulator12_view.php

Scroll down to the very bottom, if your system doesn't meet or exceed all the specs listed I would pass. My system meets or exceeds except for the CPU, which is a Pentium D 2.8ghz, well under the minimum 3.4 it calls for. On my system TS2010 and TS12 both run like a pregnant 3 legged turtle who just drank her way out of a wine barrel. Main reason I went to 2010 is the AI traffic, it's much easier to set up in TS2010 than TRS2004, and it IS prettier. Got the system hardware to run it, go for it, don't have and can't afford the hardware, stay with 2004.

 

[npr284]

Thank you all for the detailed replies and the past threads. Much appreciated.

TS10 looks good from where I sit right now, but can see TS12 not too far behind. Past content is the prob for 12 but not 10 because of compatibility mode, as mentioned. I can "see" that 12 wiil overtake 10 when more assets are converted. TS12 does seem to have a faster engine OR perhaps the content runs faster allowing for more to be added to a layout that ran under TRS04.

The ONE thing I would like someone to say about TS10 or 12 is the "game" does look LESS toyish with more inherent realism than TRS04. This one thing would put me over the line to get TS12. It has taken me 7 years and mucho effort to eliminate and/or reduce the level of "toyishness" that most any type of sim has. But, then there's the fun in learning to model in Trainz!

Guess I'll stick with 04 for now on my AMD Pentium Quad 2.8, no video card thou, dedicated computer for TRS only. I do have some 38 AI drivers running aok on it with a massive amount of scenery, etc., to give you some idea what is possible in 04. Thank you for sharing!

Al

 

[fran1]

your not far off

With a 2.8 quad core I'd say with a good card and 4 gig of ram you'd be good to run either.
The quality visually (in 10) is far better than 06, detailed track with sound, better quality rolling stock and locos with sound and sway/rocking, some with couple/uncouple sound.
Better loco physics so they will slow on inclines instead of flying up them at top speed.
The trees ,hmmmm-- you'll either like them or not.
It has to be 2010 build 44088 for you, with compatibility mode so you can haul your 04 assets into the new age, beware though you will have to put a bit of work into them to get some to run.
Install as a stand alone.

 

[npr284]

fran1, Gee Thanks for the great "run-down" of what's possible with my present computer! Thought it might just work fine, but kind of knew I would need a video card of sorts to smooth things out.

Al

 

[glbotu]

So I'm someone who was in a similar situation to you when TS2010 came out. I hadn't upgraded to TRS2006 or Trainz Classics, because I felt that they weren't enough of an improvement on TRS2004 and back then, most content uploaded to the DLS was still being made for TRS2004 anyway, so I was only precluded from a few routes (and even then, if I got a copy of them by not using the DLS - say if the creator posted them on another website, I could usually convert them back). When TS2009 came out, I was impressed by the detail but it didn't have any extra content from TRS2006 (as I understood at the time). When TS2010 came out and Auran decided that support for pre-TC3 would be removed, I figured it was probably time for an upgrade, especially given that content for later versions of Trainz had really started taking off so I was missing out on a lot of stuff. After that I never looked back really, TS2010 fullfills all my current Trainzing needs and I'll probably wait a while before upgrading again - at least until TS2010 stops being worth it. My old laptop kind of struggled with it, but that's because I was trying to run it at the maximum res of the laptop (which wasn't the smartest thing to do, it had a very high res screen). My current one has no issues at all (although it's pretty powerful for a laptop).

 

[shaneturner12]

If you do download content from the Download Station, from a financial point of view, it may be cheaper to buy either TS2009/10/12 rather than having to keep buying First Class Tickets (although you can still do this, if you want faster speeds and no daily limit) - ultimately, you will need to upgrade every so often in order to be able to download content without necessarily needing a First Class Ticket.

If users are wondering why I have not suggested Trainz Classics 3, this would give free download station access for just under a year, whereas TS2009 and later are until at least 2013/2014.

Shane

 

[tomurban]

fran1, Gee Thanks for the great "run-down" of what's possible with my present computer! Thought it might just work fine, but kind of knew I would need a video card of sorts to smooth things out.

Al

If you have a smaller (300W or less) power supply, like I do check out the nvidia GT430 with 1gb of video RAM. I have the MSI version, slightly over clocked at 800 MHz. It only needs 20-30 W from your PS. Costs around $70 and runs 2010 extremely well. If you like realism and detail, check out the Blue Comet Add-on or any of the excellent payware locos now available. There is some really fine free ware out there as well, but you have to look for it. Most payware sites also offer some freeware items that are just as good but the selection is naturally limited.

tomurban

 

[npr284]

Thank you tomurban for the reccomendations on the power supply and video card. Funny thou, I did have a low end Nvideo card in the Trainz only computer and something weird happenned. My hard drive crashed one day, so installed another. Now, this is/was an HP Pavillion with Vista, but only SP-1. It was one of the early bird Vista's. SOooo, I put in the hard drive and POW that blew out also after only about 2 months use!?? What the?

Now I started to suspect the video cards drivers or something not up to date. I pulled the card and just trashed the machine. But, now instead of trashing the card too, sent it to a friend of mine who knows a lot about computers also, perhaps even more than I do. He liked the card in his computer, for a while at least. I got an email from him some two months later saying his computer crashed and took out the hard drive! Oh NO!??
And this was a $150 card too.

Something happenned with that card and Vista SP-1 that took out the hard drive. HP units are notorious for using Hitachi drives and I blew out two more in two new units, this time with SP-2 installed. I opted to just buy two Western Digital drives and all's well now. End of sad story.

The lesson I "think" I learned from all this is that now my Quad TRS unit has an on-board ADI video chip, that's pretty fast BTW. This tells me that IF I want to install a video card then should probably use one from ADI, like the Rage Pro. But, this means going to a 600w power supply! More headaches and $$$.

Yea, I also have DL'ed some of the real nice locos, that are not quite payware. Bye Bye Freeware!

Al

 

[tomurban]

Sounds like you had some lemons. Your video card does not need to be from the same MFG as the MB. There are some excellent video cards out there that will not kill your PS. Take a look at newegg.com. Good stuff at good prices along with above average customer service if you need it.

tomurban

 

[RRSignal]

Thank you tomurban for the reccomendations on the power supply and video card. Funny thou, I did have a low end Nvideo card in the Trainz only computer and something weird happenned. My hard drive crashed one day, so installed another. Now, this is/was an HP Pavillion with Vista, but only SP-1. It was one of the early bird Vista's. SOooo, I put in the hard drive and POW that blew out also after only about 2 months use!?? What the?

Now I started to suspect the video cards drivers or something not up to date. I pulled the card and just trashed the machine. But, now instead of trashing the card too, sent it to a friend of mine who knows a lot about computers also, perhaps even more than I do. He liked the card in his computer, for a while at least. I got an email from him some two months later saying his computer crashed and took out the hard drive! Oh NO!??
And this was a $150 card too.

Something happenned with that card and Vista SP-1 that took out the hard drive. HP units are notorious for using Hitachi drives and I blew out two more in two new units, this time with SP-2 installed. I opted to just buy two Western Digital drives and all's well now. End of sad story.

The lesson I "think" I learned from all this is that now my Quad TRS unit has an on-board ADI video chip, that's pretty fast BTW. This tells me that IF I want to install a video card then should probably use one from ADI, like the Rage Pro. But, this means going to a 600w power supply! More headaches and $$$.

Yea, I also have DL'ed some of the real nice locos, that are not quite payware. Bye Bye Freeware!

Al

Running any system on an inadequate power supply can cause these problems, and others. Even worse is that power supplies can vary from unit-to-unit. On my desk next to me sit two nearly identical computers I built. Both have the same nice gamer's case with the identical 500w generic pre-installed power supply, exact same motherboard as well. Now, the gaming machine has four hard drives in it, two DVD burners, an nVidia GT240, a faster CPU which often runs at or near 100% CPU utilization. The other has a 2.2GHz CPU and an old 8400GS video card. But I can only safely run ONE HDD and DVD burner. If I add a second HDD, I'll soon start to see drive dropouts, head clicks, etc. That's all because the difference in the PSU. BTW, I settled on a GT240 when I could have had a GT250 fopr something like $5-10 more because I was afraid this much push the "better" power supply past it's limits, even though it's well within nVidia's recommendation of a 450w supply.

That's why the very first order of business when I make recommendations is to make sure their PSU is adequate and I always use way, way overpowered supplies. You'll find even a lot of name-brand supplies can't put out their rated currents or even close to to them.