deleting multiple baseboards

[martinvk]

One of the really nice things in S2.0 is the ability to delete multiple base boards in one go. While it is possible to trim the TransDEM file before exporting, it can be hard to see exactly where to cut off should be. Thus in Trainz, the boundary between wanted and unwanted base boards is very clear.

And then sometimes it fails. After deleting several dozen in a row, It will be running the Task when it suddenly stops. They are essentially empty base boards over water so not very interesting. any know reason for it to stop? Tried clicking on the big Cancel button in the dialogue but it is not responsive. CPU is pegged at 90% +

For what it's worth the file size is 1985 MB as per Content Manager. I was trying to reduce that by deleting unused base boards

 

[RikFish]

It might be "undo" which you can turn off. Disable undo/redo in Settings on the General Tab. My guess is that Trainz is writing temp files for each block of baseboards you are deleting. If these are large areas the system might become overwhelmed writing these files and lock up.
Rick

 

[martinvk]

Sounded like a plan but after disabling undo, It got to 35 base boards and then every thing froze again.
Next a complete shut down in case there was something in memory.
Seems to work so far. Wonder if there is a absolute limit or a content limit?

 

[martinvk]

Well that worked, sort of.
I can delete multiple base boards without freezing the system but then I get too ambitious, grab too many and bang, everything is frozen. Nothing to do except a forced shutdown. Naturally I get the unsubmitted edits warning. I use changes to continue where I left of.

So turning off the undo system helps but isn't the total solution. Someone with access will have to look under the hood and see what is failing. Perhaps not the highest priority but if you're going to offer a feature, make sure it works and if there are limits to its applicability, clearly spell them out.

 

[JCitron]

Increast your Windows page file. I use 2x the installed RAM as a starting point. I noticed that helped a lot with managing large blocks of baseboards and large routes.

If your CPU is pegged, the system will appear locked up as that is the brains and heart of the computer and when that's busy, nothing else will happen until the resources are released.

 

[martinvk]

Good point. I had already set it to 2x installed RAM so I doubled it again to 4x and things do seem to work a bit better. At least no more freezing when deleting multiple base boards.Now if that's what it takes and I don't recall seeing that advice ever mentioned in the official release of this feature - a big fail. How many average users even know what a page file is let alone how to change it.?

 

[JCitron]

Good point. I had already set it to 2x installed RAM so I doubled it again to 4x and things do seem to work a bit better. At least no more freezing when deleting multiple base boards.Now if that's what it takes and I don't recall seeing that advice ever mentioned in the official release of this feature - a big fail. How many average users even know what a page file is let alone how to change it.?

Yup that's always the case, isn't it! They leave it to the Trainz geeks like me to figure it out and spread the word. I found that this helps with merging routes too and prevents the crashes we've experienced while attempting that and that's why I did it in the first place. Checking my setup, I did set mine to 4x as well. I forgot about that.

 

[Herlev]

hi
how do i delete an unused base board
regards
herlev

 

[JCitron]

hi
how do i delete an unused base board
regards
herlev

In Surveyor 2.0,

Zoom out the camera to see the route from above just enough to still see the baseboards.

Using the marquee tool, select the baseboard you want to remove.
If there is content on the baseboard, press the DEL key to remove any content.
Once the content is removed, if there was any, look for the small icon showing options for baseboards and choose delete baseboard.

This same method can be used to remove multiple baseboards making the process of reducing the size of very large routes much easier and so much less painful.

 

[Herlev]

In Surveyor 2.0,

Zoom out the camera to see the route from above just enough to still see the baseboards.

Using the marquee tool, select the baseboard you want to remove.
If there is content on the baseboard, press the DEL key to remove any content.
Once the content is removed, if there was any, look for the small icon showing options for baseboards and choose delete baseboard.

This same method can be used to remove multiple baseboards making the process of reducing the size of very large routes much easier and so much less painful.

hi JCitron
thanks for your help
i have trainz 2019 version build 117009
so is that the same way to delete a base board
regards
herlev

 

[JCitron]

hi JCitron
thanks for your help
i have trainz 2019 version build 117009
so is that the same way to delete a base board
regards
herlev

Oh, sorry no it is not. I gave you the instructions for TRS22 PE and PLUS.

For TRS19:

Click on the Topology tool located in the upper right corner.
Click on the delete baseboard icon located below the add water tools.

WARNING: Deleting a baseboard in TRS19 is permanent; there is no undo available.

 

[Herlev]

Oh, sorry no it is not. I gave you the instructions for TRS22 PE and PLUS.

For TRS19:

Click on the Topology tool located in the upper right corner.
Click on the delete baseboard icon located below the add water tools.

WARNING: Deleting a baseboard in TRS19 is permanent; there is no undo available.

hi thanks for your help
kind regards
herlev tonny

 

[martinvk]

An update to the deletion freeze.

After continuing with the trimming of excess baseboards, the multiple deletion process would on occasion suddenly freeze, and the only recourse was using end task in Task Manager.

Looking closer, I noted that every time the map shifted during the deletion process, that process would freeze. If it stayed unmoved, the process would go to completion. Sometimes I would move the map in anticipation of the next group to delete BUT usually Trainz, for some unknown reason would shift the map, sometimes only slightly but enough to bring the whole thing to a halt.

Is this something particular to my Trainz configuration / hardware or can someone else replicate this behaviour?
In anticipation I've submitted a bug report

 

[pware]

Quite a while ago I used the Surveyor 2.0 Marquee Tool to delete hundreds of baseboards from a route (equivalent to about 140km of track). A long story but the terrain on this branch line was totally wrong and it was easier to delete it and start again. I used "bite sized" chunks of about a dozen baseboards at a time. I had none of the problems you described but it was done in an earlier build, SP4 or possibly even earlier.

 

[martinvk]

Possibly a unique set of features in 128487 or it's just my hardware. I wonder how many have even tried to use the multiple delete process?

 

[JCitron]

The next time this occurs, bring up Task Manager - use CTRL+SHIFT+ESC and then click on performance. I noticed that the freezes occur when there are lots of extended hard drive access at 100%. Once that settles down, it's back to business as normal. At the time, I wasn't sure if it's my system using older hard drives that's causing that but now, I'm not so sure. It could be a bug.

 

[martinvk]

Just an update on the deleting issue. It was the hardware. On another computer with Win11 Pro 64 bit with an i9-12900K @3.2 GHz, 64 GB of RAM and an RTX 4060 the whole deleting issue goes away. Perhaps a drastic solution but the old one was getting long in the tooth and has seen better days. Still a pretty solid machine but no longer Trainz ready. It will probably eventually become my daily word processing, email and general computer box.

 

[JCitron]

Just an update on the deleting issue. It was the hardware. On another computer with Win11 Pro 64 bit with an i9-12900K @3.2 GHz, 64 GB of RAM and an RTX 4060 the whole deleting issue goes away. Perhaps a drastic solution but the old one was getting long in the tooth and has seen better days. Still a pretty solid machine but no longer Trainz ready. It will probably eventually become my daily word processing, email and general computer box.

It's good that you found the cause. It could be a RAM issue though and you should run Memtest on it and check the RAM. Your new computer is spec'd almost like mine except for the video card. Instead of a 4060, I have a 3080.