I need historical help for my future routebuilding project.

J

jadebullet

might be back?
Well, seeing as I am between computers at the moment, I figure that it would be a good idea to begin planning my future route building endeavor. I am planning on attempting to create a prototypical route set in the 1950s. The area that I am modeling is from Pottsville, PA to various coal towns such as Shenendoah, Shamoakin, Minersville, Frackville, Mahanoy City, Saint Clair and any other points that I might have forgotten that are in the area.

I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find some pics of the rails in the area as much of it has been destroyed. Track maps, signal maps, are needed as well as pictures of several things such as Pottsville in the 1950s, along with the other towns. Also, I need some pics of both the Pottsville Yard and the big Saint Clair car and engine service yard.

I have emailed all of the historical societies that had email addresses, though Pottsville has no historical society for some reason.

Any help would be greatly appriciated.
 
Historic Photos

I like the project. I will try to get what information I can, very soon. My GF wants me off the PC....she's jealous of Trainz and the forums. lol !:cool:
 
Have you contacted the Reading Historical Society? I'm sure they would have maps and photos of the route that you need. Also how about the current owner of the lines, the Reading and Northern? They maybe able to help you as well.

I was recently looking at the photos on R&N's website the other day. The lines were once all double tracked and wider. They are now mostly single tracked with short sidings.

John
 
Maptech

Maptech is an invaluable source of old topo maps.

On Google Earth: there is a huge industrial park just south of St Clair, perhaps that is where the huge yard was ?

On Maptech Topo: The entire town of St Clair possibly was the area of the huge yard ?

I have seen photos somewhere...I will try to dig them up.

I'm sure that if you Google or Yahoo "Images"-"St Clair PA" , "Coal Classification Freight Yards", or "Reading Railroad Photos" it will provide some rare B&W photo's...but you probably have already done this.
 
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The yard was just south of St. Clair, where the industrial park now stands. There is only one original structure remaining.
 
Help with his route

In an older Model Railroad magazine there was a story about the area you are researching, and it was really detailed and highly interesting. It detailed the operations of the Mahanoy (inclined) Plane, and other means of getting trains over the mountains.

BTW: Where was that place that they tunneled too far in a coal mine, and it flooded, making a giant whirlpool in the East Branch of the Susquehanna River ? They installed a temorrary switch and dump track, and pushed a slew of scrap coal cars into the whirlpool in an attempt to clog up the drain.
pic13.jpg
Switchback-Railroad.jpg
InclinePlane.jpg


Billm has made a route that effectively resembles the topography of PA. I believe his route does not use a DEM, and is flat baseboards ? Using basemaps and Google Earth images and Maptech topo images, might be an easy way to get the route exactly as the prototype was laid out. Although a DEM would be the proper way to go.

The topic "WAS": Help with his route on the "READING" railroad. The St Clair yard WAS totally immence back then, and would make you yourself say: WOW that was a huge coal classification yard. Lets try to keep it on topic, : "The Reading RR in the Carbon County PA area". I personally know quite alot about the Reading RR, and I am trying to help him out with his project. Anyone else have information and photos of the Reading Railroad in Carbon County PA ?

Correction: Schuylkill County

And if I may interject: The 17 Altoona freight yards processed an incredible amount of carloads per day, as the main commodity was EB coal at one point in time. As did Enola and Conway Pa.
 
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Easy Cascade. By the way, I have a correction to make in your statement, Saint Clair is in the middle of the good old Skook, or Schuylkill County. (Skook-Hill)

Stats of the yard, and yes it was America's largest. (From the St. Clair historical society website.)
" The yard consisted of 63 tracks for 46.5 miles. Its capacity was 2,010 cars and had an engine house large enough for 50 engines. This structure was the only complete circular engine-house of the Reading Company and was also the largest one in the Reading system. A short distance southwest of the engine house there was a three-story building. The offices of assistant train-master, master mechanic, train dispatchers, clerks and conductors occupied the first floor. The second floor had pleasant game rooms, reading and lunchrooms and a fully-equipped kitchen. The third floor was devoted to dormitories, locker rooms, showers and toilets and afforded not only adequate office facilities, but also comfortable quarters for crews requiring a layover in St. Clair."

"The largest train yard in America was built here just South of Saint Clair in Mill Creek. Today it is an industrial park with only one original building remaining. Spector Manufacturing operates out the building used to repair locomotives..."

I am pretty sure that the 46.5 miles was the total distance of all of the tracks if they were put together.
 
Good news. The Reading Company Historical Society has gotten back to me, and there is alot of information that they have that I can use. They currently cannot access it at this time because of construction of a new archive room, but they should be able to get some later in the year. This route, when I eventually start it, is going to be a huge undertaking. In addition to my goal to accurately recreate St. Clair's rail yard which has over 40 miles of track, as well as structures which will have to be custom made, I was also informed that Readings Shamokin devision was under alot of change between 1940 and 1960, but I will still be doing a 1950s route.

So the good news is that the research will be coming, which helps me out in one of the problems that I was worried about since the tracks have been removed. As soon as I get a new computer, I plan on starting to learn either GMax, or Blender, to make buildings, as alot of the buildings along the route I plan on making custom. One of the things that I will need to buy once I get the money for it is Trainz DEM so that I can save alot of time, and add accuracy by getting a DEM of the area. I just need to find a DEM of the Shamokin Division.

I have to say that I am intimidated by the daunting task that I plan on doing, but I have confidence that I will be able to complete it, though it may take a while until it is started, let alone completed.

The Mahanoy plane was made obsolete by this line if I remember correctly. The rail between St. Clair and Frackville were destroyed by Hurricane Agnes in the 1970s unfortunately.

Edit: The Knox mine disaster took place near Pittston, PA.

Images for your viewing pleasure.
ExplorePAHistory-a0b9o5-a_349.jpg


oldknox.jpg
 
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I've done routes where the track has been missing for a while. Once I had the best maps available of the area, I drew the lines on the TIGER image as close as I could get them, then when I had the finished DEM imported into Trainz, I laid the track based as much on the terrain features as my pathetic drawings. It's easier if there are landmarks left, like roads that jog to go around a section of rail that is no longer there.

:cool:Claude
 
I will have to do that Tokyu40. There are some nice landmarks, including a creek that the trolly line between Frackville and Saint Clair follows. (Yes I will even be modeling the small stuff like branch lines to the mine and trolly lines.)

Also, I have some news that I found out during my research that might make Cascade happy. I will be modeling a small amount of PRR when I do this route as the Reading had an interchange with the PRR at Shamokin, and an interchange with the Lehigh and New England at Tamaqua. I am glad about this because it adds two nice caps to my route plan.
 
Mining

From my recollection: The miners knew that the mine was unstable and risky because being low on the water table and near the river. However they were ordered by the coal company, to rob the pillars (knock out the remaining, supporting coal pillars) a risky operation even in the most stable of a mine. The cave in flooded the entire mine, but I am unsure of any casualties. It must have been a huge raging whirlpool, an eyepopping unbelivable spectacle of the river going down a drain !
 
Basically what happened was that the coal company had ordered the mine be dug towards the coal company, under the river. It was supposed to have the regulated 50ft between the mine and the river, but the coal company decided that it should be 36 ft. Then since the coal seam was tilting upwards towards the river, they kept reducing it, while striping out the support pillars of coal. At the time of the colapse, there was only 5 to 6 feet between the river and the mine.


By the way, for those of you interested, I found something REALLY cool, that will definitely come in handy.
http://www.readingmodeler.com/modules.php?name=FSG

This is basically a link to each town on each division and what various rail served things there were. Scales, industries, interchanges, its all there.


Also, once I create the route, it means that fans of the Reading would be able to run the famous Schuylkill and King Coal passenger trains. (Philly to Pottsville and Philly to Shamokin respectively.) It will be a run from Tamaqua to the stations instead, and then returning to the Tamaqua portal though since it would be very very difficult and time consuming to run the line all the way to Philly.
 
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DEM's

Exactly how difficult is it to learn how to make these DEM's...it sounds like a 10 page tutorial, and dozens of days reading how to do it, and extensive learning curve, of how to do a dozen complex processes, to end up with one end product. Where's Fishlipsatwork when we really need him ?
 
Trainz DEM looks like it is the program that is essential to creating prototypical routes since the entire US is mapped. I will certainly buy it once I get the money.
 
TranzDEM is definitely easier than MicrtoDEM, since it's designed specifically to work with Trainz.
It's a little intimidating to do the first DEM map, but after that you can do as many as you like.

:cool:Claude
 
Hey you guys are talking about the east branch of the Susquehanna. That's my turf! That's it, I'm starting a turf war...ok, maybe not. I know pretty much about the area. Pittston is a little too far north for the area your working on. There is a map of this area called Scranton from fishlipsatwork. I don't think it's on the download stations but somebody has it. I should know because I'm working on it. There is also Reading's Lurgan Branch from Harrisburg to Chambersburg but I think that map is lost.

You guys where talking about the Knox Mine accident in 1959. That's just right down the road from where I live today. according to what I have read, they dump 400 ore cars down that hole. Must of been a big hole! This ended the deep mining in tha area.

Any area between Scranton to Harrisburg is my home turf. If you need any help, just PM me.
 
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