I need assets to HOLD airplanes on taxiway at runway entrance automatically.

JonMyrlennBailey

Well-known member
I have an airstrip with a single runway. Aircraft (train vehicles on invisible track) land and take off from this same runway. When a plane approaches the runway for landing, any planes about to enter the runway for take off must hold for the approaching aircraft to complete the landing and exit the runway before proceeding. I want the holding distance for approaching planes to be about 5 miles from the runway.

What Surveyor and/or Session methods and assets can be set up to automatically hold AI-driven aircraft on the ground for approaching AI planes for landing?

I thought about placing a dead-end junction on the taxiway as a hold point. I would need some kind of trigger that remotely controls this holding junction when the approaching aircraft hits it and then releases this junction the when the plane exits the runway following landing by running over a second trigger.

No aircraft in the air should ever stop while in flight. Only planes on the ground should be held for approaching aircraft. Only the approaching-airborne/landing/exiting plane should have complete control of this runway/taxiway holding point to take precedence over ground-borne aircraft about to depart. When the "holding junction" is set for the dead-end siding, the plane approaching it on the ground would naturally have to hold until this junction is set back again by the other aircraft.

Yes, I need a system of air traffic control to "fly" multiple AI "aircraft" on the same circuit without collision or unnaturally stopping while in the air.

Railroad trains can physically stop anywhere to hold for other trains because they are GROUND vehicles. Helicopters can stop in the air because they can hover. With fixed-wing planes, however, it does not work this way, as they must always be moving forward while off the ground at a high enough airspeed to prevent stalls. Airborne always has priority over land-borne.
 
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This might be possible using triggers. Any plane on the ground can prevent the trigger from allowing the invisible track loop above from switching. Once that trigger is passed, the invisible switch is set, and the looping plan can then land.

I have not used triggers in a long time so this is only a guess.
 
Thanks, John, but I need help from someone either well-versed in triggers or avidly sets realistic aircraft operations up on their Trainz routes and has sufficient knowledge of this technique. Content creators of drivable "aircraft" should also consider content for realistically controlling these birds.

Vulcan created a lot of these planes and runway and taxiway modules that I am building on my map as well. I would think he would also know how to control AI-driven air traffic smartly for multiple plane sessions. One AI aircraft flying on a loop is not such a big deal, but two or more planes leaves room for possible conflict or unnatural aircraft behaviors without logical "ATC" implementation.

The trick here is to use train vehicles and railroad-oriented assets to act like flying airplanes or at least appear to be flying planes in the eye of the casual observer. Again, the "aircraft" in the air is the only one who is to control the planes on the ground but not vice-versa.

I thought about some kind of invisible signal too, at the holding point, but how does one set it up to be controlled only by airborne planes?
 
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Usually at large airports outbound flights take off into the wind, and incoming flights use an opposite approach landing pattern, and do not use that same runway as outbound flights
 
Mine is not a large airport but a military airstrip with a single runway and a taxiway running parallel. The wind, according to my windsock asset, is always blowing in a constant direction and my runway is oriented to always take off and land against the wind. At San Francisco International, criss-cross landing and take-off runways intersect so ground aircraft still have to hold short at these intersections for incoming planes. Taxiways cross these runways too.

Real airports use control towers and humans on radios to issue commands to pilots. There is no RR signal/junction logic there.
 
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I've about thrown in the towel for multi-plane operation on the same closed loop.

I've tried everything under the sun and nothing works. There is the Trigger Multiple Signals device. It can trigger one or more signals. The trouble is that signals don't work on closed loops. They get stuck hopelessly on a red light. AI drivers can't do anything to change the red signal.

I tried the invisible speeder turntable placed in the hold short of runway position so an incoming aircraft can move it using the Move Turntable command. The plane at the holding position can't move past the turntable if it is in the open stop (transverse) position whereby the track line has a break in it. My AI driver will not even resume the drive scheduled once the miniature turntable (acting like a kind of traffic flow valve short of the runway) is closed again for passage once the plane exiting the runway moves it again with another command. Also, the runway approaching plane stops in mid-air to execute the Move Turntable command which is highly unrealistic for aircraft. Why the moving train vehicle has to come to a dead standstill in order to execute the Move Turntable command is beyond me. The Move Turntable command should be able to executed "on the fly" (literally in the case of airborne planes) by an AI-driven vehicle without any changes in vehicle speed.

There needs to be more specialized assets developed to better simulate realistic aviation operations and procedures in Trainz.

For now, I will resort to having only one flying airplane on my loop at a time until better ATC content comes to market.
 
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There needs to be more specialized assets developed to better simulate realistic aviation operations and procedures in Trainz.

Are you serious?

There is zero need for whatever you've demanded. In case you haven't noticed Trainz is a TRAIN simulator. You want to adapt it for aviation, fine, but please don't moan to us about the limitations of using a software beyond it's intended purpose. You can try to take your Toyota Camry off-roading and rally racing, but I doubt the engineers are going to take you very seriously when you call them up and say "it doesn't drive very well".

That aside you simply haven't figured it out, I'm sorry there's no other way to put this. Look, a talented dude did this once - a fully working London Heathrow.

11238229_10152999086109542_8566778722172669155_n.jpg


As abovementioned if you're trying to "fly" planes in a TRAIN sim you treat them like trains. There's so many ways to control AI and signalling such as triggers and ATLS there's simply no excuse for "the AI won't do what I want it to do".
 
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Trainz certainly needs a working communication system to better simulate rail operations, but an actual ATC operation is not necessary. Such an "ATC-like" system would have to grow out of a native dispatch system, which Trainz is only just starting to implement with the upcoming interlocking tower feature.
 
I can assign an AI driver/pilot to "fly" these trains disguised as planes fine: no more than one at a time on any given closed circuit unless they are just flying around endlessly, one following another around the loop without ever landing or taking off, except maybe, for touch-and-go landings. Trying to use whatever Trainz assets there are off the shelf to incorporate some air traffic control logic is a horse of a different color.

There might be some assets floating around out there but I haven't a clue what is available that really works for what I am trying to do.

I wish I knew how to script custom rail-vehicle-activated triggers that could control turntables and junctions, lets say, or build some kind of 'traffic stopper' that controls AI rail traffic.

Rule number one about Trainz "planes" is that they must never stop or back up while airborne nor must they fly too slowly. Ground aircraft may stop, taxi grandma slow and back up, of course.

So just HOW do I hold an aircraft about to depart short of a runway which another AI "pilot" approaching to land upon and then end the hold once he is clear of the runway?
 
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All that captain obvious claptrap aside, Trainz has these "traffic stopper" things that control rail traffic. They're called absolute signals.
How do you hold an aircraft? The same way you hold a train in the siding while it waits for another to pass...without stopping! Can you imagine that!
 
Use BNSF50 Invisitrack, Invisible signals, and track direction markers, just as you would on a railway on the ground.

Using AI, you will always have stalls waiting forever at green signals and junctions, and planes will back up a mile, only to repeat the same malfunction ... stop using that danged AI !

My suggestion is build a multitrack staging yard on the ground, and also in the sky, and use trackmarkers, to "drive via", or "drive to" a trackmarker with a signal placed a short distance ahead.
 
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None of these absolute signals come in an invisible version that I am aware of. I just checked it out. A railroad signal on a taxiway won't look kosher.
 
I am trying to add the sophistication of planes taxiing on taxiways, pulling onto aprons to load/unload passengers, waiting on the apron for a given amount of time, backing out onto the taxiway using "reverse thrust" since there are no animated working tugs, taxiing to the runway entrance, holding for any incoming planes as necessary, pulling out onto the runway to take off when the the coast is clear, flying a long loop around the entire map, landing back at the same runway again and taxiing off to the apron again and repeat the whole process endlessly and have at least two aircraft "drive" the same course, but each plane having its own designated parking spot on the apron.

I want all this occurring passively in the background while I concentrate on driving my railroad trains on the ground. The airplanes are still chiefly moving scenery but I thought it would be fun to have jumbo jets behave like the real ones do.
 
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Examine the config file of an absolute signal, and apply the same parameters to an Invisible signal config file ... I find that BNSF50 blue Invisitrack, and his Invisible signal, work just fine at all locations
 
I am trying to add the sophistication of planes taxiing on taxiways, pulling onto aprons to load/unload passengers, waiting on the apron for a given amount of time, backing out onto the taxiway using "reverse thrust" since there are no animated working tugs, taxiing to the runway entrance, holding for any incoming planes as necessary, pulling out onto the runway to take off when the the coast is clear, flying a long loop around the entire map, landing back at the same runway again and taxiing off to the apron again and repeat the whole process endlessly and have at least two aircraft "drive" the same course, but each plane having its own designated parking spot on the apron.

I want all this occurring passively in the background while I concentrate on driving my railroad trains on the ground. The airplanes are still chiefly moving scenery but I thought it would be fun to have jumbo jets behave like the real ones do.

Try using <kuid2:60238:9564:2> Aircraft Pushback Tractor 4. It work great. Need to have driver off the plane till the tractor pushes it back and disconnects. I have him waiting for trigger by tractor on the return, then he moves to plane and does his route.
 
I am trying to add the sophistication of planes taxiing on taxiways, pulling onto aprons to load/unload passengers, waiting on the apron for a given amount of time, backing out onto the taxiway using "reverse thrust" since there are no animated working tugs, taxiing to the runway entrance, holding for any incoming planes as necessary, pulling out onto the runway to take off when the the coast is clear, flying a long loop around the entire map, landing back at the same runway again and taxiing off to the apron again and repeat the whole process endlessly and have at least two aircraft "drive" the same course, but each plane having its own designated parking spot on the apron.

You know, when I was making my DLS session for the Wilson Mills and Mount Olive route, I noticed the route included an small airport with invisible track all set up. I thought "wow, this is great. I'll add a bunch of planes and have them taking off and landing. This'll look great!". Guess what - total waste of time. Even with 6 or 7 planes running the loop continuously, I almost never saw them as the train passed by at 50mph. You had to randomly get the timing just right to see one. Deleted the whole lot as not worth it.

Maybe if an airport was right next to a railroad yard where you were doing work would it even be worth the hassle. If the airport is next to a mainline, forget it. As others have said, Trainz is a railroad simulator. Drive more trains, worry less.

Todd
 
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