How to reach goal of building a route with no asssets that would be missing.

[netjam99]

I want to attempt building a route that I could share on the Download Station. I have read here on the forum about all the trouble that come with missing assets.

So what is the best way to eliminate all assets that are not Built in and/or not on the Download Station? I am thinking I would have to delete the built in routes such as the Milwaukee Road. I also believe I would for sure have to delete purchases like the Hudson Western and Coal County. If that does not work then I guess it digressed to deleting the assets one by one on the content manager.

I did google this and found no recent posts about this! Would appreciate any advice.

Thanks,

Netjam99

 

[ricomon35]

@netjam99 -

In surveyor, setup a search filter set.

Like this

Rico

 

[johnwhelan]

Unfortunately that doesn't quite work. What is built in to one version of trainz may not be available in another.

Cheerio John

 

[pware]

In my case I have a copy of TRS22 PE installed that only has assets that are Built-in or Installed from DLS. I use that copy to test all my routes and sessions that are under development in my main Trainz Plus install. If they load into the TRS22 PE version without any errors then I know that they have no DLC or "foreign" assets.

You can set up a separate User Data Folder for any version of Trainz that only contains built-in and/or DLS assets. You can then switch between your normal User Data Folder and the restricted (Built-in and DLS only) folder to test your route/session. Details can be found on the Trainz Wiki at How_to_Create_a_Clean_Install

 

[netjam99]

Thank you Pware I appreciate it! Sounds like a plan.

 

[dangavel]

You might be able to do it for now, but in a few weeks , months, possibly as long as a year someone else may well release a route that nv3 bundle with your trainz version, which then makes some of the content in YOUR route packaged as part of THEIR route , in which case you'd have any content that you included in their route show up as unknown to anyone else who doesn't have the bundled routes installed . You often have to download hundreds of megabytes of route just to install a few assets.

In addition, every new version of trainz has different built in content , so users would not see some items if they aren't included in their build.

You also are severely restricting yourself if you exclude all the content that's packaged ,in a few cases some of this stuff doesn't have any other equivalent , so unless you can make an alternative asset, your goose is cooked.

it's a never ending issue with trainz , I will never understand just why nv3 continue to force people to download hundreds of gigabytes of items that come up as unknown just because they are in packaged routes, but it's one of the biggest annoyances of using the app and they show zero sign of acknowledging it is a problem.

They appear to assume we all have endless storage capacity and fast internet connections with unlimited downloads because they won't abandon the practice ,no matter how much angst it causes route makers. I have yet to read a convincing explanation just as to why it is absolutely essential for this state of affairs to exist .

 

[pware]

You might be able to do it for now, but in a few weeks , months, possibly as long as a year someone else may well release a route that nv3 bundle with your trainz version, which then makes some of the content in YOUR route packaged as part of THEIR route , in which case you'd have any content that you included in their route show up as unknown to anyone else who doesn't have the bundled routes installed . You often have to download hundreds of megabytes of route just to install a few assets.

You also are severely restricting yourself if you exclude all the content that's packaged ,in a few cases some of this stuff doesn't have any other equivalent , so unless you can make an alternative asset, your goose is cooked.

I have no problems with including Packaged assets in my "DLC/Third Party free routes" as long as the packaged assets have a version that is on the DLS. Many (but not all) packaged assets do have a version that is on the DLS and it is a simple task to check - just right-click on the packaged asset in CM and select List Asset Versions. If no DLS version is present then I replace that asset with one that has a DLS version. In any case a packaged asset without a DLS version will appear as an "Unknown asset" when the route is loaded into Trainz that is using a "DLC/Third Party Free" User Data Folder. It will appear as an asset that is "Available for Download" if it has a copy (even an earlier version) that is on the DLS.

In addition, every new version of trainz has different built in content , so users would not see some items if they aren't included in their build.

The Trainz Store has a number of free downloadable packages that contain the built-in assets from earlier versions for use in later Trainz versions. For example "Additional TANE assets for TRS19". I recently imported in to TRS22 a route I created for TRS19 with about 50 TRS19/TANE built-in assets. The route imported into TRS22 without any missing assets because the TRS22 install included all the necessary asset update packages.

it's a never ending issue with trainz , I will never understand just why nv3 continue to force people to download hundreds of gigabytes of items that come up as unknown just because they are in packaged routes, but it's one of the biggest annoyances of using the app and they show zero sign of acknowledging it is a problem.

Nobody is forced to download any DLC items just to get a few missing assets. In my case I have Trainz Plus Gold membership and can download any DLC packages for free but I mostly don't. If I come across an asset that is only found in a DLC package that I do not have then I rarely spend the time, effort and storage space to download that package - I will either do without it or find an alternative that I already have installed. If the route will absolutely not function without the exact asset and will not accept a substitute then I delete the route and move on. This is true for both DLC and DLS routes and sessions.

They appear to assume we all have endless storage capacity and fast internet connections with unlimited downloads because they won't abandon the practice ,no matter how much angst it causes route makers. I have yet to read a convincing explanation just as to why it is absolutely essential for this state of affairs to exist .

It is an issue with many software (and hardware) products. Take the update from TS12 to TANE - the Trainz software went from running on 32bit CPUs to needing a new 64bit CPU to run. TS12 still runs perfectly well on 32bit CPUs and there are, according to some posters here, users who are still happily using TS12 on their old(er) 32bit systems.

The TurfFX effect layers require an Nvidia GPU to run. If you don't have an Nvidia video card then the TurfFX effect layers will not appear in any route that includes them. Personally, I would not be without using TurfFX effect layers in my routes. N3V have announced that they are working on incorporating TurfFX into the Clutter Effect Layer which does not need an Nvidia card so they are doing something about it.

Ironically, it is the constant demand from (us) users for more realism, better graphics, etc, that is driving this issue. If we are prepared to "stand still" and stick with what we already have (or had in the past) then it is not a problem.

Faster internet connections are becoming essential for all sorts of non-Trainz reasons. If you want 4K, or 8K, movies streamed to your home TV, if you want to watch YouTube Trainz videos in full screen without buffering, if you want video conferencing without the "drop-outs" then a faster connection will be required. My current connection is 50Mb/sec which is more than adequate for all my Trainz activities, including downloading updates, but I am considering upgrading it to 100Mb/sec for just a few dollars extra per month for all the other reasons.

One of the many things that I like about Trainz is that you can use it a level that suits you, your budget, your hardware and your internet access. No-one is forced to upgrade if it is beyond their means or ability. Likewise route creators should not be forced to restrict themselves to the lowest common denominator. In my uploaded routes and sessions I include information about the minimum Trainz version needed (but that is shown anyway in the CM build data column), whether Effect Layers, PBR textures, high detail scenes, etc are present. I also include a message such as "all assets are built-in or on the DLS". Users can then make up their own mind on whether or not to download.

My thoughts.

 

[dangavel]

I have no problems ... etc etc,

One of the many things that I like about Trainz is that you can use it a level that suits you, your budget, your hardware and your internet access. No-one is forced to upgrade if it is beyond their means or ability. Likewise route creators should not be forced to restrict themselves to the lowest common denominator. In my uploaded routes and sessions I include information about the minimum Trainz version needed (but that is shown anyway in the CM build data column), whether Effect Layers, PBR textures, high detail scenes, etc are present. I also include a message such as "all assets are built-in or on the DLS". Users can then make up their own mind on whether or not to download.

My thoughts.

Peter, you and I have diametrical outlooks on the game, the main differences being your almost predictable responses regarding loyalty and defense of most aspects of the company and their decisions. I KNEW that if you did make a response , that you would make some sort of reply like this, I'm not going to argue with you because we will never agree on most Trainz related topics .
We know you are one of the most experienced users of the game , but the vast majority of us are not in your league. I fully admit that I only learn what I think I need to learn , I've only got a few years left on the planet, so rather than spend masses of time learing new versions of the game, i learn enough to make my routes the way I want them, and if I do come across a gap that I need to fill then I try to fill it.

However i do think you are wrong here, when you stated
"Nobody is forced to download any DLC items just to get a few missing assets."

'Then you give reasons why, but they dont make a lot of sense in this context, which is to make a route that has content that can be found on the DLS without any hassle , if you want hardly any hassle with using a new route, then you ARE forced to download the bundled routes and its often just a guess as to which ones you need to download.

What if the user haven't got your knowledge , also if you don't know what the item is as it comes up as 'unknown " , how do you know what to replace it with ? You defend the practice , but you dont provide a reason as it why it is occurring.

If you remember, my point was addressing the objectives of the OP , I wasn't commenting on your post at all.

He wants to make a route that has NO problems with it containing assets that are not on the DLS, or that need to be downloaded as packages, or whatever , I believe it is not possible to ensure this will occur long term due to the way the assets are presented or what other users decide to download. Some people never install the 2019 extra content pack, as they dont know what its for , whats he to do if that occurs ? . The build built in items change, how is he going to cover that long term?

A hell of a lot of users will NEVER download the extra routes, they have told us so in a large number of posts . None of your well meaning suggestions can make his route future proof can they? You mention a lot of downloadable packages, that's not making a route without any missing assets !!!!!!!

Perhaps you can answer me this, given you are so knowledgeable about the game. , why are some items that are in packaged routes seen as 'unknown " and why is there no indicvation as to as to which route contains them ? Why can they only be identifiable when the package is installed, what it the advantage of this ?

 

[pware]

Dan (I assume that is your first name) we are not as diametrically opposite as you assume.

The asset packaging system, which was designed to solve the problem of users having to download a mass of DLS assets (often at a non-FCT speed) after downloading a DLC route that they paid for, is a great idea but its execution is obviously flawed in some ways. One of which is that all packaged assets should be freely downloadable from the DLS - after all the packaged system was supposed to include all DLS assets used in a DLC download. But in some cases this is not happening. According to N3V it is the responsibility of the DLC package creator to identify which freeware assets (e.g. from the DLS) are to be included in the package and which assets are payware. There have been cases where the creator has included a freeware asset of their own creation in a DLC package but has omitted to upload it to the DLS - effectively making it payware - and I am not criticising creators for this. Other cases have highlighted other problems.

"Third Party" and "Unknown" assets are another, possibly related, problem. The <kuid:368725:100031> Liverpool Range Wingen-Ardglen route recently uploaded to the DLS contains a number of "Third Party" and "Unknown" assets that CM seems unable to identify but it seems that they can still be downloaded, with a bit of "trickery", from the DLS using CM.

Clearly there are bugs that still have to be worked out.

Perhaps you can answer me this, given you are so knowledgeable about the game. , why are some items that are in packaged routes seen as 'unknown " and why is there no indicvation as to as to which route contains them ? Why can they only be identifiable when the package is installed, what it the advantage of this ?

I am not as knowledgeable as some may think. I often get things wrong. I do not know why some packaged assets are listed as "Unknown" - if I did I would pass on that knowledge. My contribution to that and other asset issues in CM was the Wiki Page How To Understand Content Manager Status Labels.

This is just one of several CM/DLS issues I have come across. For over a year now I have had a number assets on my system that are listed as "Installed from DLS, newer version available" yet no new version can be found. The original list was much longer but has mysteriously wittled itself down during that time (but now seems to be growing again). Perhaps the "Newer version available" is in a DLC package somewhere? It is not a critical issue to me because those installed "older" assets are working just fine but I can see how frustrating this can be to others. I also have frustrations with converting the DLC package codes to actual package names - perhaps there is a simple trick that someone can point out to me?

My statement that no-one is forced to download a large number of often bloated DLC packages to get a few missing assets is based on my personal philosophy that if looks like too much of an effort to find something then it probably is not worth the effort - life is too short!

Regards
Peter

 

[pitkin]

Based on my years with Trainz:
*It is probably possible to achieve the objective of the OP (at least temporarily)
*But the route might be minimal compared to what is currently available, may not worth the effort.
*A possible exception would be themed routes such as switching challenges with carefully chosen scenery.
*If you are so inclined, you can create your own assets and upload them as has dangavel

 

[Forester1]

I think you could probably use freeware from large third-party sites like JR and RRmods, etc, as they look like they will be around for a while, and I think you could use assets from wayback sites that still have downloads available. The main thing is to post a thread for the route under the freeware section (or payware if you are going that direction), and post links to all of the sites you use that will work to easily find and download those assets. But keep in mind whether you are using freeware or payware from third-party sites, they are all going to have a status of "modified", so it could be tricky to tell.

 

[wilts747]

One of my routes has been on the go since TS12 and although like others I've looked forward to the next release of Trainz in the back of my mind there has always been that nagging thought of how much work will be required to migrate my current creations. Having learnt that frequently missing assets are in fact parts of other optional or downloaded routes when TRS22 came along I changed tack and only installed the basic program, without any of the optional routes or my own purchased downloads. After migrating my own route with sessions from TRS19 as a simple .cdp file without assets, and re-downloaded as many missing assets from the DLS I could identify, I was left with about 240 unknown assets.

Thinking that one day someone may be interested in driving the route, its about 100 miles long by 30 miles wide, mixed traffic, mainly 1960-1980 UK diesel with some steam and has 50 plus trains running under AI doing their own thing, instead of downloading the optional routes which may or may not be available in future Trainz editions, or just transferring them from TRS19, I decided to replace all the unknown assets with those from the DLS.

Using the missing assets wire frame facility as a guide and my TRS19 install as a reference it took about 20 hours work to replace all but a handful of the unknown assets and those I deleted. I was however surprised to discover how many of these unknown assets had almost identical twins on the DLS, or should I be saying is it really necessary for route builders to source assets from places other than the DLS when practically identical assets are available there. I believe today someone running TRS22 could load my route and find all the missing assets on the DLS and my aim is to try and keep it that way but to get there had its challenges. Good luck Netjam99. Peter

 

[netjam99]

Thank you so much guys, you got me moving. Lessons I took from here were adapted for example Pware's notion to have a separate copy with just download station and built in assets. I knocked that out and got Transdem working my one day off this past weekend. I have a long route for trainz going on. But I decided to go with the most simple landscaping as possible. Desert, mountains and not many towns. (Pitkin got me thinking on this one) But to keep things interesting its got major grades and huge trains with multiple locomotives. I spent a few hours and progressed nicely on landscaping. This route won't need a ton of assets, maybe I can pull this off. Helper, Utah and Provo, Utah will test the theory, perhaps I will have to grab JR and RR Mods as Forester suggests.

I am not good at track laying and signals, hope you guys will not mind questions about that stuff as I encounter unknown country!

 

[fourteen]

i feel the pain with missing assets, downloaded new route about a forth of it was non dls stuff, even worse most of the track was missing, why i ask you would you have the most imporant thing as a non dls assest?

 

[pware]

why i ask you would you have the most imporant thing as a non dls assest?

I suspect that many route uploaders are simply unaware of the sources of all the assets they use. The philosophy seems to be "If I have it installed then everyone else must also have it installed". It is a simple process in CM to check if any of the dependencies in your route cannot be found on the DLS or are not built in but too many creators do not do this.

My theory.

 

[Forester1]

For landscaping Utah desert, check out Dangavels Uintah route. He put in a tremendous amount of work and created a lot of assets that you may be able to use in your route. Plants, rocks, cliffs, ridges, etc. All DLS assets, I believe. At least hundreds of them!

 

[netjam99]

For landscaping Utah desert, check out Dangavels Uintah route. He put in a tremendous amount of work and created a lot of assets that you may be able to use in your route. Plants, rocks, cliffs, ridges, etc. All DLS assets, I believe. At least hundreds of them!

I watched two video's on his route last night good stuff after seeing your post! But was glad to see he didn't do the route I am taking a shot at. By the way I had stumbled upon his cliff terrain already. Really nice colors. Will look for the rocks. I have already noticed that Trainzdem misses those those formations and smooths them out.

 

[rwk]

What about unknowns that might be packaged payware such as tume or RoysTrainz? If they are in payware N3V routes how do you know which routes they are in? And over several years ago Roy had an external site with western Canada routes, but the one route cost $70 and I never bought it. Now, his routes are only available through N3V which means they will be locked payware and cannot be merged with each other. If I bought them, I would want to merge them together even if the total length was several hundred miles. There is a freeware western Canada route though on an external site. Pretty long route.