Horrible quality of new machine translations

[ZyxwvU]

Two days ago, Polish translation was ~78% complete. I entered there today and found out that it reached 100%. I looked inside and I discovered that incomplete translations were apparently created with a computer, not a human who knows Polish. The quality of automatic translation is horrible. Do you really want to release it like that?

Maybe a couple of examples:

* "Couple to the coaches at the passenger depot" was translated as "Para do autokarów w zajezdni pasażerskiej" - literally, it can be back-translated as "a steam for the buses in the passenger bus depot."
* "You'll need to stop the coaches clear of the turnout. Push back and stop where the loco can run around the consist." was translated as "Musisz zatrzymać autokary przed rozjazdem. Odepchnij się i zatrzymaj w miejscu, w którym lokomotywa może biegać wokół składu", back-translation: "You have to stop the buses before the junction. Push yourself back and stop in a place where the locomotive can run [like runners at olympic games] around the consist"
* "You can now moveforward and couple to the tankers" > "Możesz teraz iść do przodu i połączyć się z czołgistami" > "You can now go forward and merge with drivers of military vehicles known as tanks" (?!!!?)
* "If so, the handle can next be moved further into the braking range." > "Jeśli tak, klamkę można następnie przesunąć dalej w zakres hamowania." > "If yes, one can move the door handle into the braking range"
* "Now lap the brake to set a minimal application." > "Teraz okrąż hamulec, aby ustawić minimalne użycie." > "Now walk around the brake to set a minimal usage"
* "Switches are thrown by ground personnel." > "Przełączniki są rzucane przez personel naziemny." > "The network devices called switches are thrown into the ground from the height by the ground personnel."

 

[JCitron]

You could help.
Trainz translations in Crowdin

 

[ZyxwvU]

I helped. I learned about the translation program not so long ago, and within a couple of days I bumped Polish translation from 68 to 78% complete. I drove the routes, checked wording, consistency etc. Now it's quite hard to find missing texts, because everything is marked as "translated". What's the point of inviting people for helping with translation and only a couple of days later hiding all the progress by publishing poor-quality machine translations? I planned to complete the translations at least for all the tutorials and some routes, too. How can I find missing texts right now, track the progress, etc.?

Please understand that for people who don't speak English, such broken translations are a bigger barrier than leaving some untranslated, English text. At least they can use dictionary or check the meaning with someone else. This is how I used to play computer games when I was 8-9 years old, I didn't speak English well yet, and most games didn't have a translation. But if the message says about a steam for buses or merging with drivers of military vehicles... nothing can help to understand the original meaning, except of switching the language from Polish to English and abandoning even those texts that are translated accurately :/

 

[wreeder]

I totally agree with the OP. If you don't speak the language then don't try to help with translations by using online translators. The AI in those things is awful. Kind of like Yoda speaking English. "Bad am I English speaking.

 

[JCitron]

I totally agree with the OP. If you don't speak the language, then don't try to help with translations by using online translators. The AI in those things is awful. Kind of like Yoda speaking English. "Bad am I English speaking.

I do agree as well.

If this is the case, then there's no excuse for what they did, and it needs to be corrected.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Thanks for the feedback. Since most languages weren't on track to be completed, we wanted to test this out to see if it helped. We're not expecting the machine to get it right every time, the real question is does it help us get to 100% and still make sense?

As stated in our post about this on Crowdin "[FONT=&quot]You can still go through the translation list as you have been previously as there are many options to filter the lists including by selecting "Machine Translations -> Translated by MT"."[/FONT]

The process does allow you to approve or disapprove or change any entry. Please let us know the exact issue you have with identifying the machine text entries and also what exact issues you are having (if any) with updating those entries).

 

[wreeder]

Fair enough, but now you have learned that the third step of back translation is needed with this technique.

Está bien, pero ahora ha aprendido que se necesita el tercer paso de retrotraducción con esta técnica. > Spanish


Okay, but now you've learned that the third back-translation step is needed with this technique. >Back to English

 

[-Basti-]

German translations are broken for all menus in TRS 2019 SP5 and TRS 2022... besides their quality...

Edit: I just see... the menu gamen menu is broken for all other languages besides English... there are just the variable names

 

[ZyxwvU]

Thanks for the comment and some extra light on the issue, Tony. The question is: do you want to have 100%-complete translation, or just the number that says "100% complete"? There are a couple of issues here. One is the problem I mentioned earlier, that such a translation can be a bigger barrier than leaving some text untranslated. When it comes to other countries, such as Poland, we have 3 groups of people:

1. people who don't speak English at all,
2. people who speak some English,
3. people who speak English fluently.

If some text remains untranslated, #2 and #3 can select their mother tongue in the game and still enjoy it - they understand both translated, and untranslated messages (probably with some small help of dictionary). #1 will have some trouble, but they can check the dictionary, ask someone or even watch YT videos (in other words, they have some way out). With machine translation, the game can become unusable for all 3 groups. In 2021, there appeared a popular survival game, Valheim, also made by an independent studio and released as an early access. The game had only a partial translation to Polish (remaining messages were in English), but the quality of that translated part was very good. I played it in Polish, and enjoyed it. I remember that last year, I switched the language in TRS2019 to Polish, and then I switched it back to English 10 minutes later due to the problem with variable names instead of actual texts in menus, identical that Basti mentioned.

The other two issues with machine translations:

2. how do you convince people that you still need help with translation, if everybody sees "100% complete" on Crowdin?
3. motivation - mine went down, when I realized that people can actually switch back to English after a couple of minutes because of trouble using the game.

I know I won't be able to finish all the translation on time (I learned about the action too late). But I want to do my best, and hopefully, deal with the remainder later. I'd also like to feel that this effort makes sense and that people will use it.

I also know that I won't manage to review all machine translations on time.

 

[majortom100967]

Me myself I would be very glad to help to translate to Italian (I speak a good English and I can find out which is the best translation among more than one ca be found out (excluding the literal ones which most time aren't perfect for the situation). For example: "Precaching content..." to "Sto memorizzando il contenuto nella cache". Pretty OK but rather than (the equivalent) "I'm memorizing the content into the cache..." I would prefer a simplyer "Memorizzo il contenuto nella cache..." -> "(I'm) Memorizing content into the cache...". It's often a matter of details but... who decides?

 

[wreeder]

I speak Klingon if N3V ever goes other worldly.

 

[sister]

I'm fronting the same issue with Italian language. I'm reviewing alla the authomatic translations to correct the biggest errors. I understand there is some hurry to arrive at the end of the work before TRS22 will be released but better wait a little bit more and avoid such terrible translation. For an example we are discussing which would be the better translation in Italian for "Scrapebook" and I can assure you it's nothing simple. LOL

 

[jordon412]

I speak Klingon if N3V ever goes other worldly.

Then you'll like this:

EDIT: See if you can guess this: batlh ghob ylpab.

 

[sister]

Then you'll like this:

EDIT: See if you can guess this: batlh ghob ylpab.

I was there the 3rd of January 22. What a great place!

 

[ZyxwvU]

Tony_Hilliam, can you comment on this?

Why do you delete human-made translations and replace them with machine translations?

 

[Spiffy]

Thanks for the heads up. That situation you pointed out shows that it was only a 99% match to the new string so the system didn't insert the string as a solution as it operates on a minimum match of 100%. We will have a look tomorrow at the possibility of reducing the percentage slightly to avoid these cases where only a slight change has happened.

 

[ZyxwvU]

I understand and appreciate that. Unfortunately, I think I will withdraw from helping with translations for now. I don't like the approach of the massive use of machine translations. Their quality is poor. The progress is obscured. Their massive influx is impossible to control and maintain in reasonable time for small groups of volunteers. In many places, machine translations make the game unusable for a typical native speaker, and one would need to sit and review almost everything to change that. I'd really like to play Trainz in my native language, but currently the process is too frustrating and not volunteer-friendly. Hopefully the approach will be changed, then I will be more than happy to help again.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Thanks for your well balanced review of the current situation.

I agree that there are plenty of cases of poor quality. By the same token, if you don't speak English, a slightly garbled message is better than one you can't understand at all.

I should point out that there are filter options so that Machine Translations only can be selected. This means only the items that would have been "not translated" would be in the list. (or not 100% as Mike pointed out).

We're preparing to get the current translations out to a wider group of testers to check so once that's released, it's the opportunity for changes to be made.

We'll publish the full process when the new build is ready for testing.

 

[ZyxwvU]

You're welcome, trying to do my best, and also we're all trying to help each other here . I look forward for the new process, maybe it will be less time-consuming from the volunteer perspective. I see that the short UI texts are usually meaningful enough to be usable. The problem is with longer descriptions and session instructions - the instructions go beyond being slightly garbled. It's the feeling like "I'm seeing Polish text but I have no idea what it is about". Effectively, you don't know what you should do next to progress, and you can't translate it to the proper version in any way, because you don't have the reference point. With some English texts here and there we at least have chance. Many people, even if they don't speak English fluently, understand it to some extent.

 

[gavviani]

I can try to provide you with some suggestions for improving the translations or helping you understand the intended meaning in Polish.

"Couple to the coaches at the passenger depot": Improved translation: "Podłącz się do autobusów na dworcu pasażerskim" (This translation means "Connect to the buses at the passenger depot.")


"You'll need to stop the coaches clear of the turnout. Push back and stop where the loco can run around the consist." Improved translation: "Musisz zatrzymać autobusy przed zwrotnicą. Cofnij się i zatrzymaj tam, gdzie lokomotywa może objechać skład." (This translation means "You need to stop the buses before the turnout. Reverse and stop where the locomotive can go around the train.")


"You can now move forward and couple to the tankers." Improved translation: "Możesz teraz ruszyć do przodu i podłączyć się do cystern." (This translation means "You can now move forward and couple with the tankers.")


"If so, the handle can next be moved further into the braking range." Improved translation: "Jeśli tak, następnie klamkę można przesunąć dalej w zakres hamowania." (This translation means "If so, then the handle can be moved further into the braking range.")


"Now lap the brake to set a minimal application." Improved translation: "Teraz zacznij pompować hamulec, aby zastosować minimalne naciskanie." (This translation means "Now start pumping the brake to apply minimal pressure.")


"Switches are thrown by ground personnel." Improved translation: "Przełączniki są obsługiwane przez personel naziemny." (This translation means "Switches are operated by ground personnel.")"


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