High Speed Rail In the Midwest

[bl4882]

Hey rjhowie,

Stuff it!

Hi rjhowie,

I have an even better idea. Suppose we just let all the bad guys know that as far as we are concerned the little patch of ground you occupy is a free fire zone; with no interference from us. Then none of our obscene spending designed to protect our own people and our friends would be your concern. Would that be ... OK? Make you feel better?

Bernie

 

[Blutorse4792]

Let's show them we don't need "government" solving our problems and nip this political fight in the butt before the mods get involved.

This is about high-speed rail, not the U.S. military. Healthy political debate is always a good thing, but not on the Trainz forums.

 

[BobCass]

I Agree with Blutorse..Lets Nip in the Bud..After all we are all Trainzers..

 

[bl4882]

I agree with the last two posts. I should have suppressed that response. I apologize.

Bernie

 

[Euphod]

hHi Euphod,

Not really that disingenuous when you consider that the US does spend half the world's budget on armanents for no goodly reason. All sorts of enemies are conjured up as an excuse and the cost is ridiculous. You folks have a kind of mawkish love affair with it apparently. I also understand that the country is intending to spend even a trillion more than the Pentagon wanted. Ironic there is a penchant for wanting to strut the arms but let the railways (well passenger) go to the wall so to speak. No harm to you but many rail fans here will be sighing with relief that you aren't a candidate (!) Much of the nation's economic crisis was started by the previous lot which is obviously your forte and it didn't create as many jobs either not matter the example you give. Admire your loyalty but the US doesn't have the matter of freedom all sewn up as if the greatest free nation - even internally. Anyway as a looker in I think you will be disappointed later in the year and that may save the US passenger rail side from disappearing into history. Somewhere I have, if I could find the dashed thing an Assoc of Railroads book dating from the 1950's and given to me. It was as the passenger rail was declining but fascinating. For me, I am glad that this land of freedom has a national pasenger rail system. Indeed Americans who visit here are often surprised at it's extent in diffeence to the situ back home. So whatever is lost it won't effect me nor my corner of the world. The gradual loss of passneger rail over the pond is of course your loss not mind so I will not lose my beauty sleep!

Regards from the centre of the universe (Glasgow of course!)

"Baaaa!" to you too.

Edit: I probably should explain that. I find when having a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowlege the facts and continues to spew the rhetoric of whatever side of the discussion they endorse it becomes akin to the bleating of so many sheep. You go ahead and bleat your talking points, even though the subject of HSR in the US doesn't affect you at all, you just are using it as a stone to grind your nationalistic pride to a sharper point.

For anyone else that is interested, please notice that I never claimed the US was "the greatest free nation", I just stated that rail and roads are not the cause of the greatness we do enjoy. Regardless of who is elected this year, they will not be immune to economic reality. I only have one vote (even though I live in the Chicago area), and will use it as I see fit. Every democratic republic receives the leadership it deserves, and I have no illusions about the leadership here, it probably won't make a difference either way.

 

[rjhowie]

That's a slightly arrogant, patronising touch there assuming you are like Moses with the tablets on what is factual and correct and accusing me of bleating. I am just as entitled to comment on things as you are whether they apply to the US or anywhere in the world. This is an international forum I would remind not just for across the pond. If you want a selective forum you could start one yourself after all there is a British Trainz site. You seem to come from a faction over there that thinks anyone outside that box somehow is automatically wrong. There are plenty of people in America who are very opposed to your outlook on expenditure which happens to be flawed. I would remind of the practical fact that the present election is close thus emphasising what I say. No-one here has the sole rights to facts, truth or anything it is your opinion and mine. Coming from a place that has an indepth passenger system, I would love to see America with something that we have but I do know it is never going to happen. It has been lost over there and now history. In one sense I can agree with you that it doesn't directly effect me and I am not too fazed as your loss not mine!

Where any high speed does come to fruition over there I applaud it and wish it well. Have been to the ex-colonies twice and sampled what is there so I will keep my fingers well and truly crossed. Regards,

Bobby

 

[jacksonbarno]

Euphod isn't the only one who thinks that you are bleating. If the loss of the passenger train in the US means that the country stays afloat, than so be it. It is our problem, not the UK's, not France's, not Germany's. When the country's back on its feet, then we can go off and spend money on endeavors, but for right now, we need to tunnel out of this hole that we have dug ourselves in. Its not that I wouldn't love to have HSR in the US, but we have to implement it at the right time, and we have to implement it well. There has to be a reason why people would want to ride HSR, and for right now, there is none, as airlines (no matter how much the TSA goes into your privacy) are more readily available, as are highways. Of course, we could make like layout modelers, and throw the budget out the window (or should I say, with the current administration, even further out the window) and build it, but real life doesn't work that way, does it. The money that could go into HSR could, I dint know, go somewhere that we need it? Perhaps the failing infrastructure?

 

[kws4000]

FWIW, just a couple days ago (two weeks I think) we spent our last tax dollar for the year. From now until New Year's Eve we're spending money we don't have, "Backed by the Full Faith of the United States Government". In Prez Obama's first year, this date was surpassed early in July. And we have been doing this for years, regardless of administration.
(Prez GW Bush just had the misfortune to have a war thrust in his face.)

Some argue HSR is "infrastructure". And they are right. But it is not "essential". Nice, but not neccessary. We survived thus far with nation-wide sub-80 speeds, we can do it a bit longer.

<logicalrant>
They will continue to fund the airports and keep them open so that the military can go anywhere it wants. They will continue to fund the highways because there needs to be an alternative to the "evil transortation tycoons" we call railroads; besides, every few miles on the interstate, there is a straightaway long enough for a plane to land on, military once again. But they don't want to fund Amtrak because it is losing money. When you look at it, if the government did not pay for the airports but the airlines did, ticket prices would be through the roof and they would be bankrupt.
</logicalrant>

We live in an oxymoronic world, if you ask me.

 

[rjhowie]

Yes jacksonbarno you are in a deep hole and fully acknowledged. However if an opposing view in a discussion is automatic bleating as a knee-jerk term of expression then he and you are also guilty of such! There are plenty of people in the USA who don't agree with the argument on what to spend on be it trains, military, social matters or whatever so on that premise the bleating term is unfortunate and not very mature in a reasonable discussion. I can accept that in the climate you dug yourself into that trains will not be a paramount subject and hopefully in time it may become something worthwhile altogether.We too have been effected by what was started and perhaps more fortunate that we are able to still extend passenger rail. To be fair it is understandable for an arument to delay rail matters over the pond with a million a year losing homes and worse things happening. As I said one would hope that maybe one day high speed rail may stick it's head up again!

 

[SantaFebuff]

I don't care about the politics, I'm so happy! This is happening right here at home, and it's happening on the part closest to me! I railfan Dwight, IL every now and then and this is so cool to see happen. The only thing that's bad in my perspective, is that they are ripping out grade crossing signals that were just put in in 2009.

Cheers,
Joshua

 

[rjhowie]

Leaving aside SuperFudd's inanility to say anything sensible I am happy with people to express opinions as I am myself. No-one here as the sole truth about anything at the end of the day we are all entitled to have opinions whether others like them or not. Living as well do in places where such is the norm this should be especially noted and in frees societies soemtimes we have to accept being offended! In addition allowing difference is part of that not assuming we all have to be the same which would contradict the principle. And I accept what you say there SantaFebuff about being more interested in railways than politics. Coming from a country that has a railway system that is essentially a passenger one with a much smaller goods side (okay freight over the pond!) I thought it would be a good sign to see a better national passenger rail thing over there. Unfortunately different traditions spill into the political arena as can be seen whether it should be public or private money. That arena is however not the sole thing for one camp but again to legimimate points of view.

So I do hope that America does seem some progress but if it doesn't if won't effect me practically as I can still get about most of here on a passenger service you would eat your heart to have over there!

For me any country that can maintain and espeically extend it's passenger railway is something I am right behind it in principle but up to it to decide it's future. Hope you are lucky Santafebuff!

 

[amigacooke]

If having no government sector is such a self evidently brilliant idea, I have been struggling to think of a country that is boldly putting this into practice.

Then it came to me. Somalia. Having dispensed with the trappings and economic dead weight of central authority, all sorts of private ventures have sprung up. Piracy I believe is a strong growth sector, with plenty of rewards for those bold enough to take risks. Armed militias and related industries also offer the budding entrepreneur (isn't it a shame the french have no word for entrepreneur), plenty of opportunity to enhance a nations wealth (preferably by nicking it from elsewhere).

And of course the clincher. A go-ahead society such as Somalia has no truck with High Speed Rail. Actually it has no truck with railways at all.




Baa

 

[rjhowie]

Poor Somalia, doesn't know what it is missing - Afghanistan as well!

 

[Blutorse4792]

Going by this "logic", North Korea is the shining example of a healthy, robust government sector, yes? No small-minded reactionaries getting in their way!

Of course, I am puzzled how one can get the idea that we support "no government sector whatsoever" from our aversion to an impractical and unnecessary money-pit. Once again going by your "logic", it's safe to assume that those posters bemoaning excessive military spending are completely opposed to the idea of any military whatsoever, yes?

 

[amigacooke]

Going by this "logic", North Korea is the shining example of a healthy, robust government sector, yes? No small-minded reactionaries getting in their way!

The point that I am, in a clumsy manner, trying to make is that neither the public nor the private sectors unfettered have proved to be utopian. While government can make bad investments, the private sector can too.

It seems we agree, to a degree.

 

[Blutorse4792]

Yes, and I believe that a superfluous high speed rail system is a bad investment, especially when the federal government is already hemorrhaging money and our economic recovery is at little more than a crawl.

 

[SuperFudd]

When a private sector business makes mistakes they learn from them or go out of business. Either way they don't make it again.
When a public/Big Brother entity makes mistakes they just go on making mistakes.

 

[Blutorse4792]

It's even worse when it's not a first time mistake... First the USRA, then Amtrak... Is the third time finally going to be the charm that gives people the idea that the U.S. federal government can't run a railroad? (Unless they just so happen to be in charge of it when the jackboots of overregulation are finally removed from its neck, ala CONRAIL)

 

[Bluewater]

@Bluewater, alas, you are right, that statement was a bit hasty... Perhaps both nonstop runs and trains that stop at al of the major population centers long the route. The whole reason for nonstop trains though, is if HSR were to actually compete with airlines and highways, it would have to get from point to point very quickly, just look at the Eurostar! It has two variations, on that makes a stop at Brussles, and one that goes onstop, and because of the nonstop run, its faster than airlines, and better, I might add.

I see what you mean. In order to compete we would need non stop long distance. But I would also knock out those inter city shuttle flights with Corridor trains like the Bluewater.

 

[springtransit]

Actually, one line is already operating. The Porter-Kalamazoo (My city) is up and running at 110 and has been for a couple months now.

With P42DC's, I see! I didn't think they were capable of being high-speed trains!