High Speed Rail In the Midwest
- Thread starter mp202
- Start date
Yes, that should happen to them too. Otherwise, there are no repercussions for bad decisions; such bad behavior is simply encouraged.
I'm trying to stay off the political third rail and keep this topic about the HSR, but subsidies are the government's method of rigging the game. What occurred with GM was just a horrible travesty of economics, capitalism and law. The banking industry has now been rigged to give the big banks an advantage over smaller independent banks, we maintain ethanol subsidies when everyone agrees that it's use does not improve the air quality, and worse than that removes corn as food from the private sector at a rate so alarming that impoverished nations will be pushed to starvation.
Unintended consequences of government messing about in capitalism. GM would have been bought out, and should have been allowed to go bankrupt through normal channels. The most important aspect of capitalism is failure, because through failure a business learns how to be successful. What about all those jobs, union or otherwise? Who cares? A business exists to sell a product or service, not to provide jobs. Job are a result of a successful business, not the goal! What about all the money that was thrown at Solyndra, that was squandered through government intervention? What about all those jobs?
Capitalism has it's own way of correcting it's course, the government should stay the hell out of the way.
Unintended consequences of government messing about in capitalism. GM would have been bought out, and should have been allowed to go bankrupt through normal channels. The most important aspect of capitalism is failure, because through failure a business learns how to be successful. What about all those jobs, union or otherwise? Who cares? A business exists to sell a product or service, not to provide jobs. Job are a result of a successful business, not the goal! What about all the money that was thrown at Solyndra, that was squandered through government intervention? What about all those jobs?
Capitalism has it's own way of correcting it's course, the government should stay the hell out of the way.
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
Good point, also though, in response to the jobs comment, if the government had stayed out of the way and let the economy run its course, then the economy would have been back on track by now. GM, most likely would have stayed afloat, and everything would, more or less, return to normal sooner than it will now. But I digress, this thread has been derailed. Lots get the crane out here, shall we?
Great points brought up by all.
Has anyone from the Midwest heard any new news about the old CRIP line between Kansas Cit and St Louis? Rumor has it that a group of retired and active UP executives own the route. Their hopes were that it was a good investment because the demand would increase over time for high speed line between the two cities over time. Only a portion of the line is currently active out of STL use by the CMR (Central Midland Railroad).
The old CRIP is the yellow route across the central part of the state in this document.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=f565842d7684fbca&id=F565842D7684FBCA!670#cid=F565842D7684FBCA&id=F565842D7684FBCA!669
Has anyone from the Midwest heard any new news about the old CRIP line between Kansas Cit and St Louis? Rumor has it that a group of retired and active UP executives own the route. Their hopes were that it was a good investment because the demand would increase over time for high speed line between the two cities over time. Only a portion of the line is currently active out of STL use by the CMR (Central Midland Railroad).
The old CRIP is the yellow route across the central part of the state in this document.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=f565842d7684fbca&id=F565842D7684FBCA!670#cid=F565842D7684FBCA&id=F565842D7684FBCA!669
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Actually, one line is already operating. The Porter-Kalamazoo (My city) is up and running at 110 and has been for a couple months now.
Hold it right there: Kalamazoo, Mi, is the second busiest station in Michigan. You HAVE to stop there. That's the only reason why we retrofitted that d*** station. Detroit to Chicago non stop is a waste of money w/o stopping at Ann Arbor, Lansing, Dearborn, and Kalamazoo.
Euphod's point about if something cannot survive in the market it shouldn't exist I would say is too much of a simplification. There are things that are needed in America and publically assisted. Anyway the corporates in that private industyr have far too much influence including politically. They get away with financial murder don't they so let's shut them down but of course, no chance. Especially shifty with money so some of them should be dispensed with on that same principle. Less spent on armanents (half the world military budget and that SHOULD be reduced) would assist passenger rail. Based on his assessment and if he was the man in the White House over there say goodbye to any passenger rail. Just imagine. The only advanced civilised nation without passenger trains! :hehe:
Blutorse4792
Now T:ANE I can get into
Certainly. Fancy, shiny high-speed rail is not one of them. If you really, absolutely must blow that money, how about updating the crumbling infrastructure we already have?
That sounds a lot like hollow, "99% vs. 1%" rhetoric that doesn't get anything done besides giving police cars a fresh coat of "green", high-fiber paint. Besides, deregulation (spits on the ground and makes the sign of the cross) after the Staggers Act is probably the best thing to happen to U.S. railroading since the diesel engine.
Or we could, y'know, not spend it instead of finding another pit to toss it down...
Yeah, who cares if they're impractical and unnecessary? They're fast and shiny, not to mention trendy! All of the cool countries have them...
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France is a sovereign nation and what ever it's citizens decide as far as their government and subsidies is up to them, I have no opinion on it.
Free market capitalism is essential to avoid the problems most of the civilized world is facing now; bloated budgets, unnecessary programs, onerous taxation and non sustainable benefits. The pathology of dependence becomes ingrained into a culture to the point where government becomes the nanny, provides all, reduces freedom and individual motivation. I do oppose subsidies in the US because they skew the mechanics of a free society, leverage one industry against another, give advantage to some businesses while causing others great difficulties.
Making business the bad guy doesn't accomplish anything except to manipulate the people into class warfare type reactions.
Yes, if I had any power I would choose to end subsidies for passenger rail. If it were profitable and a venture wanted to market it, then fine. If passenger rail ended completely in the US, then it would be no different than the loss of the typewriter industry, or the local stables and blacksmith shop.
I really admire your disingenuous straw man of the US military, I've read your use of it more than once. The problem is that the primary responsibility of our Federal Government is the protection and defense of the nation. The percentage of the budget (when we have a budget) that goes to the military is actually quite small when compared to the amount that goes to unfunded mandates, needless programs, bureaucracy, and areas of governing that should rightly be done by the states. The other problem is you act as if there's some big pile of money that, if not used for the military could be used to fund research on converting solar powered unicorn farts into molecular transportation beams. Almost half of the money the federal government uses for ANYTHING is borrowed, and our children and grandchildren will carry the brunt of that debt. You are welcome to vote and run your country as you see fit, but your opinions about my nation amount to nothing but rhetoric and class envy.
The US government is in no position to chase rainbows right now. Someday it may be, and if the fed wants to build HSR with windmills and solar panels on the roof, then they would be in a better position to so. I'll still disagree with it though. Entrepreneurs are constantly on the search for ways to make a profit, if you don't think passenger rail travel has not been considered time and time again, then you're not thinking clearly. If it were viable, it would be done.
Freedom is what makes this nation great, not trains or highways. Increased taxes to the nanny state only reduces individual freedom. The more money an individual gets to keep, the more freedom they have to make decisions that lead to a fulfilling life. Those that live off the teat of a nanny state become sheep.
My employer has a program through which the employees can purchase shoes (from a limited selection of work shoes) to be reimbursed by the company. The catch is, if you choose to buy such shoes you MUST wear them. You are allowed exactly one fitting, so if you find that the shoes disagree with your feet, you still must wear them everyday. While practically everyone else jumps at the chance for something "free", I do not.
If you let them buy you shoes, eventually they come for your feet.
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jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
@Bluewater, alas, you are right, that statement was a bit hasty... Perhaps both nonstop runs and trains that stop at al of the major population centers long the route. The whole reason for nonstop trains though, is if HSR were to actually compete with airlines and highways, it would have to get from point to point very quickly, just look at the Eurostar! It has two variations, on that makes a stop at Brussles, and one that goes onstop, and because of the nonstop run, its faster than airlines, and better, I might add.
Consider this:
Supose HSR is well planed and implimented to serve a major portion of our transportation needs, getting folks from where they are to where they need to be. Never mind that it bankrupts the nation.
What if several years later most folks no longer need to go there but need to go somewhere else due to major changes of some sort. Then ridership goes way down on the obsolete route and there is a need build a new route. What are the odds that the need for this change would be perceived soon enough by our beloved burocrats to fill the new needs seamlessly?
How would ( and has) such a change be handeled by the airlines?
How would ( and has) such a change be handeled by the bus lines?
For that matter, how would ( and has) such a change be handled by railroads and "traditional" passenger rail service?
Supose HSR is well planed and implimented to serve a major portion of our transportation needs, getting folks from where they are to where they need to be. Never mind that it bankrupts the nation.
What if several years later most folks no longer need to go there but need to go somewhere else due to major changes of some sort. Then ridership goes way down on the obsolete route and there is a need build a new route. What are the odds that the need for this change would be perceived soon enough by our beloved burocrats to fill the new needs seamlessly?
How would ( and has) such a change be handeled by the airlines?
How would ( and has) such a change be handeled by the bus lines?
For that matter, how would ( and has) such a change be handled by railroads and "traditional" passenger rail service?
hHi Euphod,
Not really that disingenuous when you consider that the US does spend half the world's budget on armanents for no goodly reason. All sorts of enemies are conjured up as an excuse and the cost is ridiculous. You folks have a kind of mawkish love affair with it apparently. I also understand that the country is intending to spend even a trillion more than the Pentagon wanted. Ironic there is a penchant for wanting to strut the arms but let the railways (well passenger) go to the wall so to speak. No harm to you but many rail fans here will be sighing with relief that you aren't a candidate (!) Much of the nation's economic crisis was started by the previous lot which is obviously your forte and it didn't create as many jobs either not matter the example you give. Admire your loyalty but the US doesn't have the matter of freedom all sewn up as if the greatest free nation - even internally. Anyway as a looker in I think you will be disappointed later in the year and that may save the US passenger rail side from disappearing into history. Somewhere I have, if I could find the dashed thing an Assoc of Railroads book dating from the 1950's and given to me. It was as the passenger rail was declining but fascinating. For me, I am glad that this land of freedom has a national pasenger rail system. Indeed Americans who visit here are often surprised at it's extent in diffeence to the situ back home. So whatever is lost it won't effect me nor my corner of the world. The gradual loss of passneger rail over the pond is of course your loss not mind so I will not lose my beauty sleep!
Regards from the centre of the universe (Glasgow of course!)
Not really that disingenuous when you consider that the US does spend half the world's budget on armanents for no goodly reason. All sorts of enemies are conjured up as an excuse and the cost is ridiculous. You folks have a kind of mawkish love affair with it apparently. I also understand that the country is intending to spend even a trillion more than the Pentagon wanted. Ironic there is a penchant for wanting to strut the arms but let the railways (well passenger) go to the wall so to speak. No harm to you but many rail fans here will be sighing with relief that you aren't a candidate (!) Much of the nation's economic crisis was started by the previous lot which is obviously your forte and it didn't create as many jobs either not matter the example you give. Admire your loyalty but the US doesn't have the matter of freedom all sewn up as if the greatest free nation - even internally. Anyway as a looker in I think you will be disappointed later in the year and that may save the US passenger rail side from disappearing into history. Somewhere I have, if I could find the dashed thing an Assoc of Railroads book dating from the 1950's and given to me. It was as the passenger rail was declining but fascinating. For me, I am glad that this land of freedom has a national pasenger rail system. Indeed Americans who visit here are often surprised at it's extent in diffeence to the situ back home. So whatever is lost it won't effect me nor my corner of the world. The gradual loss of passneger rail over the pond is of course your loss not mind so I will not lose my beauty sleep!
Regards from the centre of the universe (Glasgow of course!)