High speed freight haulage and intermodal service

[wholbr]

Hi John, KingConrail and everybody.

snip~ I don't expect many folks know much of the FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Saftey Administration) that are not directly Governed by it (North American "truckers" operating within the US Borders), just as I didn't know that "Road Haulage" is the term used in the UK to describe "trucking". ~snip

John, King Conrail many thanks for the comments and please accept my apologies my delay in replying and for using British terms when describing what you know as the trucking industry. There are several analogies used when describing the British trucking industry the most common are the logistics industry, the distribution industry, the carrier industry along with the road haulage industry. So any time I forget and use one of those terms in the future you will now know what I mean .(LOL)

I think what you John and KingConrail may find interesting along with other forum readers is the integration that is taking place between the road haulage industry/trucking industry and the rail companies in Britain and some other European countries when it comes to freight movement. Surprisingly this is working to the benefit of not only the rail companies but also is improving the business prospects and profits of the road freight operators.

Rail freight in Britain has been transformed by the introduction of the class 66 locomotives which were designed in the United States and are constructed in Canada. Their gearing has been upgraded for use in Britain so they now have a top speed of 75 mph and can easily maintain an average of 70 mph with a medium-sized freight consists which is great for a train made up for a single customer time scheduled night operation.

The above are replacing what we in Britains road haulage industry have traditionally called “night trunking“. That is where companies with central warehousing hubs distribute their products to regional distribution centres traditionally using overnight road vehicle articulated units with duel or tri axle 40 foot trailers. In one operation my company have been involved in setting up; a Bristol regional distribution centre normally received eight of these trailers every night from Nottingham 120 miles away, while its sister Plymouth distribution centre received another six trailers each night from Nottingham 250 miles away.

By combining all the above vehicles into one 15 or 16 freight car consists hauled by the class 66, the train can leave Nottingham just after the finish of the passenger rush hour in the evening, arrive at the rail terminal in Bristol at 9:15 PM and Plymouth at 11:30 PM. With specially designed computer operated overhead cranes the containers are unloaded from the rail consist to road articulated trailers for the final stage of the journey in less than 15 minutes at both terminals, and the first container is in its regional distribution centre half an hour after its arrival at the freight terminal.

You may think that the road haulage company involved would have lost business and jobs by not having the road trunking vehicles running…….. Not so. The efficiency of the night operation at the regional distribution centers has so improved that a wider range of products can be handled by the centers which requires extra vehicles for the road transport from their to the retailers outlets. The efficiency of the rail operation also means that no stock is now carried at the regional distribution centre which has released warehousing space into which a new home delivery operation has been introduced employing 24 drivers and other staff.

The outcome of it all means that the road haulage/trucking company has actually gained work, jobs and revenue. The retailer has gained a far more efficient and cheaper (per cost of each item carried) transport operation along with a new home delivery service………… Great stuff, and there are many operations similar to the above being set up all over Britain and Europe. Perhaps someone can create a scenario based on the above in trainz


it may be considered that this posting should have been in a new thread. If so, do not hesitate to move it, edit it and give it a title John.
Bill

 

[KingConrail76]

Hi Bill,

Sounds like a very successful venture, and similar to several of our "intermodal" operations, most notable being United Parsel Service (UPS). Taking advantage of Railways to reduce expenses, by consolidating freight movements has saved UPS untold millions of dollars in fuel alone, having reduced the number of long-distance trucks out on the interstate highways, while also allowing the expansion of local delivery services, such as truck load overnight services. Like your senerio, this has allowed reduced costs, increased revenue, safer operating conditions, and an increase in the ability to provide additional employment oppertunities along with better lifestyles for those employed (more "hometime" to spend with family, rather than "living" in the truck for a week at a time for a cross country run).

Norfolk Southern's "Triple Crown" Road Railer service is another example, albeit drastically different from UPS. The "Triple Crown" service consisting of a fleet of Wabash National built "Road Haulage" trailers (53' long by 102" wide) that can be fitted with railroad Bogies directly, eliminates the need for container chassis trailers, and/or specialized rail cars (spine cars or well cars) for transport and transloading of Containerized freight. There are other "Road Railer" operations, including AMTRAK, providing "fast mail" services, Union Pacific, with a fleet of Refrigerated Trailers, and Swift, with a fleet of standard dry box Trailers, but I think the "Triple Crown" service is the most known of them. The biggest advantage to this system is elimination of any transloading what-so-ever. The Trailer gets loaded at Point A, trucked to a central rail yard, fitted with bogies (automated by the design of the trailer) and made in to a Train, moved to a destination rail yard, disassembled (takes minutes), and then trucked a short distance to Point B to be unloaded. One major difference from your UK example though, is that these trains are usually made up of 125 Trailer units (the maximum allowed).

I often wonder what the feasability of a more UK-like rail operation would be. What I mean is, Could the US benefit from short distance express freight operations, with something like a "Triple Crown" service, but scaled down to, say, one 4,000Hp Loco and 20~25 Road Railer trailers, and utilizing more frequent, but smaller, interchange facilities. This would allow for faster delivery times, for sure, but I don't know if the US economy would support the amount of "localized" traffic to make it profitable, or even sustainable, with our "Road Haulage" industry already being so proficient making timely deliveries at distances under 550 miles (average 50 MPH for an 11 hour "driving" day).

 

[wholbr]

Hi kingconrail and Everybody.
Kingconrail, that was a very interesting and enjoyable video of the road Railers. However, I have to admit that I have never seen them in use here in the UK but I did check on a Wikipedia site where it did state that they are in use in Britain but did not give any details of the companies that may be using them. The use of specially designed rail containers that are easily transferable to road semi trailers would seem to be the predominant system in use here in Britain but I would emphasise that these are early days in joint road rail operations and things can easily change in the future.

There are a number of reasons for the demise of what we call trunking operations in favour of rail with the main reason being the cost of diesel in Britain which now stands at £1.40 per litre or £6.30 per gallon which would equate to $8.63 at the present exchange rate. Other contributing reasons would be a maximum nine-hour “driving” day with a 45 minute compulsory break after four and half hours driving. There is also the European working time directive which states that “mobile workers” must not work more than an average of 48 hours per week over any 26 week reference period.

Along with the above is the chronic shortage of HGV drivers at this time as it would seem that we are unable to recruit any younger people into the road haulage industry even though the country has over two and a half million unemployed. Part of that reason is undoubtedly that almost all companies will not allow any person under the age of 25 to get anywhere near the cab of a truck. There is also the problem that to obtain a class I heavy goods driving licence you first have to obtain a licence at seven half ton rigid, then a multi-axle rigid vehicle, following that you can start to take your tests and examinations for your class I licence. Altogether there can be up to 18 tests and examinations that have to be passed before you climb up in the cab of an articulated vehicle and start your first day’s work.

With all that said, I would agree with you kingconrail that the road haulage industry has been in the past excellent at working time scheduled deliveries up to a maximum of 400 miles per shift (200 miles each way on trunking operations) but with all the above that efficiency has now depreciated. Therefore, it is very easy to see why the road rail link up is going forward with such rapidity and enthusiasm

With regard to whether the United States could benefit from short consist express rail freight operations I can only give you the benefit of my observations here in the UK. Britain is a geographically small country but has one of the most high density populations in the world. Even at night our motorways (interstates in the US) can be congested around major cities and in winter fog, ice and even heavy rain can delay what we call just in time (T.I.M) trunking vehicles. Modern rail does not seem to suffer anything like the same delays in our weather conditions. Therefore, in highly populated areas of the United States such as the north-east corridor where population density and other conditions could be similar to the UK, express rail freight I feel could make a big impact.

The rail locomotive manufacturers are now coming forward with plans for short consist freight train power units with top speeds 90 to 100 mph. They are also claiming that acceleration and breaking will be on a par with present-day passenger consists making them available for peak period daytime working on the same tracks as our highly congested passenger services.

Now there is something to think about, the future certainly looks to be an interesting place in transport.

Bill

 

[JCitron]

Bill and KC,

This is cool stuff. I don't quite see where the JIT rail services would fit either in the US except for perhaps in the high density areas such as a greater metropolitan district or region. Perhaps things will change as the cost of fuel increases, but for now we have our major hubs and then the local deliveries. As you've pointed out Bill, the ever improved designs with rail carriages and locomotives will benefit us all. With freight trains running at passenger speeds, this will ensure even more efficient deliveries. Your rail system is amongst the busiest in the world. With freight trains being able to run at the same speeds, and with the same safety standards, then this will be even more efficient for transporting goods. From 2004 until 2009, I worked in the logistics area of my former employer. We shipped heavy, large, and expensive equipment worldwide. I once asked one of the freight forwarders about something like this and he echoed what I've said here.

Bill, you mentioned the work rules in the UK and Europe. They have started a similar thing with the railroads, though a bit more complicated and with longer hours. The reason behind this was safety because people were being called back to work without a rest period and were forced to work inconsistent hours. The new Hours of Service rules enforce a certain number of hours in a day and week, and both the railroad and sometimes the employee are penalized for violating this. These rules came about after some truly horrendous and serious accidents due to crew members falling asleep.

If you haven't noticed, I moved this topic to a more befitting thread.

John

 

[wholbr]

Deleated Posting, Wrong tread

Bill

 

[kws4000]

Bill, have a gander at the CN EcoRail variation of the roadrailer: http://tracksidetreasure.blogspot.com/2012/04/cns-ecorail.html and KingConrail: There was an "Iron Highway" service btwn Detroit and Chicago, sort of like a RoRo operation by CSX. I think the last dated literature I found about it was from 2004 or maybe earlier, so it may not have been feasible then, but perhaps things have changed. ALSO: I was present at a presentation of Allen Brown, CEO and President of Railmark Holdings Inc, and the gist was that transloading is starting to take off again here in the States. And the 315K GRW rule is still on the drawing board.

 

[wholbr]

Hi John kc, kws4000 and everybody.
John, with regard to your comment on whether just-in-time delivery operations ( JIT) would be needed or appropriate in the United States would be determined by the needs of the delivery operation.

If we took a large retail chain as an example, then a just-in-time delivery service would be aimed at eliminating the need for physical stock to be held within all its retail outlets with the exception of what is actually on the shop shelves for sale to the public. The JIT operation would aim to also eliminate stockholding at the regional distribution centres leaving only the central warehousing hubs holding physical stock which is always a huge saving in financial terms for the retailer.

The above is achieved by the retail stores having their sales tills linked constantly to the central warehousing hubs computer system. In this way a continuous check is made on all items of sales as the day goes on and with the each retail store having a precise time for their daily delivery the computer system is able to predict exactly what numbers of any item will be needed to replenish the shelves on the next delivery to the store.

At what is known as there “call over times” at the central warehousing hubs the stock for each retail outlet is assembled into roll containers and moved onto the trunking vehicles whether that is road or rail (increasingly rail these days). In the early evening these vehicles leave for the regional distribution centres which are normally placed at distances of approximately 150 to 200 miles apart for a large retailer. On arrival normally late at night or in the early hours of the morning the cages are moved on to the vehicle’s which will make the store deliveries or into a temporary holding area to await loading and delivery to the stores usually by the store delivery vehicles returning to the regional centre and reloading for a second or even third journey each day. All the above is known as a cross dock warehousing operation. As you can see the speed and precise timekeeping of the trunking vehicles between the central warehousing hubs and the regional distribution centres is of the essence as the sooner the vehicle’s arrive the longer the delivery day is for the regional centre and if that time is enough each vehicle can be double or even treble shifted by drivers and therefore makes for a fewer total number of vehicles required in the system, another large cost saving.

The foregoing does perhaps show why Road Railers have not been adopted in a widespread way by the British transport system and other European countries with similar just-in-time, trunking and cross dock operations. There is no “one size fits all” vehicle when it comes to city centre deliveries especially to retail outlets. Again for demonstration purposes, if you take our large chemist chain that I mentioned in a previous posting, they have eight stores located throughout Bristol. Some have unloading facilities that will accommodate large multi-axle 40 ton articulated vehicles while at others you have to be a highly skilled driver just a to get a 14 ton, short wheelbase, two axle rigid vehicle within 100 yards of the outlet at any time. Therefore the regional distribution centres normally require a range of heavy goods vehicles to accommodate their normal daily needs and therefore Road railers probably do not fit in easily to the forgoing requirements.

That said, the class 66 rail locomotives have increased speed and efficiency with their average 70 mph speed as against the maximum 50 mph road vehicle between the central warehousing hubs and the regional distribution centres. The foregoing has increased the delivery window time for the regional distribution centers allowing more night time and early morning deliveries when city centre roads are less congested and when larger vehicles find it easier to manoeuvre. All the above has brought huge cost savings to the transport industry and its customers and as KingConrail so rightly pointed out, we now have far less heavy goods drivers sleeping overnight in vehicle cabs with no toilet or washing facilities. Instead a growing number have reasonable shifts in terms of hours and then return at the end of that shift to their homes which make for a healthier, safer and far better lifestyle

If rail locomotives can be produced which can haul short consists of 15 to 20 freight rail cars at an average speed of 90 to 100 mph then the cost savings and employment benefits to everyone involved in the transport industry will be further increased. Hopefully, the benefits will also be passed on to all members of the public through reduced road congestion, pollution and the cost of all items they buy.

Remember if you’ve got it at some stage it came on a truck. So, do not be afraid to love your local trucker


Bill

 

[JCitron]

Bill,

I wasn't quite as clear as you are in your description here. I can see this kind of service working well in a metropolitan area with the hubs close to the servicing areas, but we have great spans of empty nothing in between, and the JIT just wouldn't work in these areas since the tracks are long gone. In our Midwest, it's not unusual to see long forgotten branch lines that once served many small, and not so small towns, but have been ripped out over the past decades. These routes are now empty paths with occasional sleeper piles, empty telegraph poles, and bridge abutments.

Perhaps some day as fuel costs rise, these once forgotten ROWs will return from grassy paths to rails once again. That is, unless a WalMart or Home Depot hasn't put their parking lot across the ROW.

John

 

[wholbr]

Hi John and everybody.
I would entirely agree John that the rail/road system I described above which is in common use here in Britain and other European countries needs cities and towns to be reasonably driveable (by that I mean within an hour or so of each other) and have high density populations.

However, to me and I am sure many other rail supporters in Britain and Europe exactly how the extensive US rail network works in day-to-day running is somewhat of a mystery to us. We see the huge freight consists in the media which seem to be made up of containers, tankers and flatbreads etc rumbling along seemingly made up of numerous customers and consignees but we have no idea (at least I have not) of how it all operates in terms of getting all those consignments to the various customers.

As an example, suppose I wanted to send three containers of freight from Boston to Salt Lake City on a regular weekly basis. Would there be a scheduled rail service I could use, or would it be a case of it being moved across the network and various railway companies with consists being shunted and again made up at each stage on an ad hoc basis without any schedule for delivery whatsoever.

I know I am probably touching on a huge subject but perhaps you could advise John or any other forum member on the above which I am sure many of us Europeans would find interesting.


Bill

 

[KingConrail76]

Hi John and everybody.
I would entirely agree John that the rail/road system I described above which is in common use here in Britain and other European countries needs cities and towns to be reasonably driveable (by that I mean within an hour or so of each other) and have high density populations.

However, to me and I am sure many other rail supporters in Britain and Europe exactly how the extensive US rail network works in day-to-day running is somewhat of a mystery to us. We see the huge freight consists in the media which seem to be made up of containers, tankers and flatbreads etc rumbling along seemingly made up of numerous customers and consignees but we have no idea (at least I have not) of how it all operates in terms of getting all those consignments to the various customers.

As an example, suppose I wanted to send three containers of freight from Boston to Salt Lake City on a regular weekly basis. Would there be a scheduled rail service I could use, or would it be a case of it being moved across the network and various railway companies with consists being shunted and again made up at each stage on an ad hoc basis without any schedule for delivery whatsoever.

I know I am probably touching on a huge subject but perhaps you could advise John or any other forum member on the above which I am sure many of us Europeans would find interesting.


Bill

Hi Bill,

It's a bit of both, if you will. There are scheduled trains, that run at generally the same time of day, and days of the week, but probably not nearly as regemented as in the UK. An example would be Norfolk Southern's train 23W. 23W is an intermodal train, mainly made up of United Parcel Service's TOFC (Trailer on Flat Car) and 53 foot Containers, but will also include other TOFC and 20~53 foot containers (single stack only due to Routing under catanary wires). It is scheduled to run from Baltimore, Maryland to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Monday thru Saturday (schedules can change weekly). Before it leaves Baltimore, freight from other locations are consolidated into it, and when it gets to Harrisburg, cars for Harrisburg are removed, then the remainder is consolidated into a larger train heading in another direction.

Now, though 23W is "Scheduled", it does NOT have a "time" for departure or arrival. It has more of a "window" of time for which they "try" to get it on the rails and moving. It is a "night time" train, so anything after 8~9 PM it could get rolling, but I have seen it rolling as much as 4~5 hours after that. I would imagine, for this particular example, there may be more of a priority to keep it on-time, as UPS guarantees their delivery times to within 24 hours.

Here is a link to Norfolk Southern "Train Symbols", which will give you some other info on Scheduled Trains, departure locations and destinations.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,2661357

 

[kws4000]

Hi Bill,

It's a bit of both, if you will. There are scheduled trains, that run at generally the same time of day, and days of the week, but probably not nearly as regemented as in the UK. An example would be Norfolk Southern's train 23W. 23W is an intermodal train, mainly made up of United Parcel Service's TOFC (Trailer on Flat Car) and 53 foot Containers, but will also include other TOFC and 20~53 foot containers (single stack only due to Routing under catanary wires). It is scheduled to run from Baltimore, Maryland to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Monday thru Saturday (schedules can change weekly). Before it leaves Baltimore, freight from other locations are consolidated into it, and when it gets to Harrisburg, cars for Harrisburg are removed, then the remainder is consolidated into a larger train heading in another direction.

Now, though 23W is "Scheduled", it does NOT have a "time" for departure or arrival. It has more of a "window" of time for which they "try" to get it on the rails and moving. It is a "night time" train, so anything after 8~9 PM it could get rolling, but I have seen it rolling as much as 4~5 hours after that. I would imagine, for this particular example, there may be more of a priority to keep it on-time, as UPS guarantees their delivery times to within 24 hours.

Here is a link to Norfolk Southern "Train Symbols", which will give you some other info on Scheduled Trains, departure locations and destinations.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,2661357

That's the idea. Powder River Basin coal mines get from 1 train/2 days to 2 trains/day (not sure on specs, but certainly in that window). (I recall reading somewhere that the largest coal powerplant in Ohio gets 3 trainloads of coal daily, someone needs to check me on that!) BNSF sends three Z trains (intermodal double-stack) daily from LA to Texas (I think, may have changed during recession). Scheduled, yes. Regimented, not very. And I recall that CSX runs a daily Tropicana OJ train from Florida to NY area (can someone check me on that?). As for mixed manifest, trains leave semi-regularly or whenever the departure track is full, you have sufficient power, and have a valid crew. Because branchlines are much smaller, they probably have a much more regular schedule, but is still tied to whenever the mainline train arrives. Don't forget that "dimensional" loads screw everyone over, and you have to be in hole waiting for Amtrak when applicable.

 

[JCitron]

Bill and everyone,

I'll add a bit here too. CSX which is the main player out of Boston, has the Qs. These intermodals leave Beacon Yards at 8:00 pm, after the last commuter trains, and head west to Worcester where they are split up with some business staying local while other trains are sorted and sent west to Albany, NY (Selkirk Yard). These trains are again sorted with manifests sent north via the old Delaware and Hudson, south to New York metro area, or west towards Buffalo and on to Chicago.

Our regional railroad, Pan Am Railways, runs freights from North Maine Junction, via Portland Maine, then on Deerfield and Rotterdam Jct. In Deerfield, they can send freight south to New Haven and New York or west to New York State. At Mechanicsville they connect directly with the Delaware and Hudson (CP Rail), so now there's a direct west connection there. They also teamed up with the Norfolk Southern with the Pan Am Southern. The PAS handles through trains for the Norfolk Southern to Ayer, MA where they can interchange with the Boston area.

This sounds great in theory, but the problem with Pan Am is their poor running equipment and poor track. They never maintain anything so there are a lot of slow orders. The slow orders cause service violations so the crews outlaw and lay off. This keeps the traffic from moving smoothly through our area. The old Boston and Maine routing, via the Hoosac Tunnel, has its own issues. The tunnel, though recently widened, is still too short for full double stacks, so containers have to be trans loaded to lower the height of the stack trains before they move through the tunnel. More recently there have been some run throughs from Worcester to Rigby (Portland) with CSX locos on the front. Perhaps this has helped alleviate the bottleneck caused by bad track and old equipment. The CSX is lucky that, other than a short stretch of slow track from Worcester to Ayer, the rest of the line is up to 79 mph passenger quality track. This was done by the local transit authority for the commuter service and allows for fast running freights where they can benefit. The rest of the freight lines see maybe 40 mph if that on the rest of Pan Am, except where Norfolk and Southern has pitched in on the West end.

John

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
Apologies for the delay in replying to the to everybody who posted answers to my question(s) but approaching the age of 70 I sold the business four weeks ago and believed I was going to retire. However, the company who financed the buyout insisted I remained as “business development adviser” to the new owners and so retirement with that long holiday in America etc still looks very far away. Still mustn’t grumble (LOL)

Anyway, back to the thread. As a non-American looking at a map, the USA still has an extensive railroad network despite all the closures etc. From reading all the postings it would seem that the network is broken up between various railway companies who not only own all the rolling stock but also the track. The foregoing (as I perceive it) makes it virtually impossible to run an integrated national rail service for either passengers or freight,(Would somebody please correct me if I am wrong in that statement). However If I am correct in the above, how would the American forum members see the future development of the railroads throughout the country?

As John stated, the US has large areas of country where population density is low and therefore it could be perceived that the future of mass transport still remains within the realms of the air and road environment. It also could it be that the future especially of passenger rail transport is only seen in the context of such areas as the North East corridor as us Europeans know it. Or does anybody really expect that a truly national rail infrastructure will develop for both high-speed passenger and freight services throughout America.

A government minister here in Britain declared the other day that the railways were once again the backbone of the transport system and that these are now the years of development following decades of decline and neglect. It is certainly true that there is scarcely a day when you pick up a newspaper or switch on the television news that there is not a story about the railways. China, Russia and many other countries have declared huge investment in their railway systems. However America seems strangely muted to the rest of the world on its intentions. So, as stated, what do American forum members believe will happen in railroad development in their great country that has throughout my lifetime led the world in technology and innovation to the benefit of us all.


Bill

 

[kws4000]

Hi everybody.
Apologies for the delay in replying to the to everybody who posted answers to my question(s) but approaching the age of 70 I sold the business four weeks ago and believed I was going to retire. However, the company who financed the buyout insisted I remained as “business development adviser” to the new owners and so retirement with that long holiday in America etc still looks very far away. Still mustn’t grumble (LOL)

Anyway, back to the thread. As a non-American looking at a map, the USA still has an extensive railroad network despite all the closures etc. From reading all the postings it would seem that the network is broken up between various railway companies who not only own all the rolling stock but also the track. The foregoing (as I perceive it) makes it virtually impossible to run an integrated national rail service for either passengers or freight,(Would somebody please correct me if I am wrong in that statement). However If I am correct in the above, how would the American forum members see the future development of the railroads throughout the country?

As John stated, the US has large areas of country where population density is low and therefore it could be perceived that the future of mass transport still remains within the realms of the air and road environment. It also could it be that the future especially of passenger rail transport is only seen in the context of such areas as the North East corridor as us Europeans know it. Or does anybody really expect that a truly national rail infrastructure will develop for both high-speed passenger and freight services throughout America.

A government minister here in Britain declared the other day that the railways were once again the backbone of the transport system and that these are now the years of development following decades of decline and neglect. It is certainly true that there is scarcely a day when you pick up a newspaper or switch on the television news that there is not a story about the railways. China, Russia and many other countries have declared huge investment in their railway systems. However America seems strangely muted to the rest of the world on its intentions. So, as stated, what do American forum members believe will happen in railroad development in their great country that has throughout my lifetime led the world in technology and innovation to the benefit of us all.


Bill

1) Congrats. They like you!

2) US RR companies own all of the track except where owned by Government commuter agencies and Amtrak, but they do not own all rolling stock; a majority is owned by private lessors. Integrated national service is NOT impossible, it just doesn't get a lot of press. I'd gamble that at least a few intermodals run straight from LA to NY without change in power or transloading, but there will inevitably be a delay in transition from one company to another due to existing schedules and actual time of arrival. As for passenger, current terminals are much as they were back before WW2, plus or minus a couple hundred miles away from the original route. But it is not really the terminal-2-terminal runs that generate the real money, it is all the stops inbetween that people get on and off at. T2T service is best served by that which does not stop, and people pay for it (through the wallet, nose, and busted knees & lack of sleep).

3) Consider average population density: UK has 679/mi^2, while USA has only 90. Granted, only averages, but as a matter of comparative opinion, the UK appears to be very much like the NEC in terms of relative population density, plus outlying drivable distances. And because we are so big, not everyone is going to the city. Many places where people want to go are far beyond general residential areas most of the population are from. And because our relative pop density is so low, the roads aren't as crowded for a given event, ie rush hour. The largest metro area I ever went to regularly was 25,000, and they all went all over the place. There was no overwhelming directional traffic unless there was construction . Thus, LRC has little to no economic viability across much of the USA.

4) You know more about the UK than me, bud. As for the USA, let me put it thusly: no rail = massive power shortages (coal), clogged highways jammed with semis (intermodal), dramatic shortage of capable drivers and vehicles to transport bulk freight (manifest/branchline), regular new INFLEXIBLE pipelines that typically spill FAR more than 30,000 gallons of crude or gasoline (fuel), and nuclear waste traveling the world on easily hi-jackable, poorly guardable vehicles, not to mention skyrocketing costs for large factory components that have to be built in place because the road can't handle them (unusual loads). Simply put, railroads made us who we are, and the population levels support that claim.

As for investment: North America is the only area of the world, save perhaps Australia, where common carrier railroads are privately owned. I would have to gamble that government agencies across the world took a good look at what we have, got jealous, and decided that throwing more money at their problems would perhaps solve them. That's pure speculation, but a good guess on my part. IMO, real improvements will come when those systems start to operate for-profit, and not as mandated service. (of course, longer sidings, bigger yards, larger clearance gauges, heavier axle loadings, and stronger couplers could always do something tremendous....:hehe:)

 

[JCitron]

Well said, KWS. I couldn't have said this better.

The UK is a bit larger than New England plus part of the greater PA to Washington DC metro area at 94,058 square miles. New England its self is about 72,000 square miles. Interestingly, our population density back here on the east coast is also similar as well as our railroad services. We have Amtrak and the local agencies for passenger service, however, as you said the privately owned freight companies, although we have majority ownership in these areas. CSX for example owns and operates a good chunk of the Northeast, with Norfolk Southern grabbing a hunk, then Pan Am Railways, and the other carriers such as the Providence and Worcester, New England Central, and others handling the rest. Unlike the UK, however, we have done very little to expand any commuter service or even freight services to the extent that the UK has. This is possibly due to the number of larger number highways we have in the region, and in particular I-90 and I-95 cross right here in the Boston metro area, which creates a true EW-NS junction of the major roads in the northeast. The other metro areas, such as New York and New Jersey have I-70, I-80 which are also cross-country east-west, north-south roads which are covered bumper-to-bumper with trucks as they head cross country in various directions.

Sadly companies such as Pan Am Railways, has done little to pick-up the freight off the highways. CSX and NS have done a good job, but PAR has a bad reputation being Guilford Transportation. Guilford has gone through great lengths to discourage business and to even close down lines. Perhaps they have reason for this, other than running trains, as I've seen them fight off state agencies and go as far as to rip up the tracks anyway, and then sell off ROW to power companies and communications companies. In the mean time, Routes such as I-495 and I-95 are clogged with trucks coming down from Canada heading into the Boston area.

John

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
Many thanks to all those that posted regarding my enquiry in an earlier posting as to how Americans see the future of their railroad network. Having seen the replies I feel perhaps I should have phrased my question somewhat differently.

To set a background, approximately two and a half years ago I was invited to attend a national transport conference which looked at the future of all forms of transport in the UK. The foregoing reviewed road, rail and air transport with regard to both passenger and freight. The conference was held at the height of the recession in Britain and Europe and therefore many of us who attended felt it was difficult to predict what would happen in the next few months let alone the next decade which the conference had been set up to debate.

At one stage the conference was addressed by the chief executive of the biggest transport operator in Britain. He advised that through the progress of mobile communications, portable technology and social networking a new generation of people wishing to have a far greater control of their own future was coming forward. These people he predicted would open and develop their own businesses and in the coming years would be in the forefront of leading Britain out of recession and into a much brighter future. The forgoing he advised would present a whole new challenge to the UK.’s transport infrastructure both passenger and freight.

Two and a half years on everything he predicted is coming about. Thousands of new business start-ups have been made; unemployment is now rapidly dropping with many of those previously without jobs finding work in the mass of the new small businesses which are indeed leading us out of the recession. At the forefront of all this are the railways with their ever-growing passenger numbers thought to be over twelve and a half percent in the current year with many of those passengers using trains as temporary mobile offices for those small businesses when traveling. The railways are also working in conjunction with the road transport industry to move freight through cost-effective and speedy innovations such as would not have even been dreamed of only a decade ago. Many large road transport companies now have their own “rail arms” that run alongside their traditional operations. The foregoing has also brought about new markets such as home delivery which I have posted on previously in this thread.

All the above brought one of our most respected national newspapers to state at the weekend that it felt Britain and some states in Europe are at the start of a “new industrial revolution” a statement that has been reflected in many other quarters. Those statements I would very much agree with, and perhaps that was the basis of my original question. Does it feel in America that things are very much changing in its commercial and industrial society and if so, is it also felt that the railways will be in the forefront of those changes. I realise that America geographically is vastly different to Britain and even much of Europe, but is that feeling of great change also taking place in the US with all the ramifications for its rail, Road and Air transport infrastructure.

Bill

 

[JCitron]

Hi Bill,

There are changes, for the better I think, in the rail industry here in America. The big players, CSXT, NS, UP, KCS, and BNSF are investing heavily in upgrading their service, building larger rail yards, and integrating with the trucking industry through their inter-modal services. I subscribe to a very interesting newsletter from the American Association of Railroads. The AAR as it is called. This is a consortium of railroads that work together to ensure that the railroad industry works and enforces good safety practices and good customer- industry relations among other things. The newsletter is a great source of information on what is happening today in the US rail industry.

https://www.aar.org/Pages/Home.aspx

John