Have You seen this

[n8phu]

Just a thought,

"Irking off the creators is a quick way to get nothing."

 

[robbiehanson]

If this indeed is a way to force people to upgrade, I have to state this:

I will NOT purchase another copy of Trainz until I can verify that it will run on my computer first(i.e. demo). The TS2009 beta would barely run for me and I see no point in paying $40 to become a beta tester for 2010.

In other words, I'm already iffy on buying another copy; unless Auran can verify to me for free that TS2010 will work on my computer without repeatedly crashing or just plain not running at all, my Trainz days are numbered.

 

[Azol]

Peace!

Seriously, no hard feelings about this whole issue. Basically what Auran (or the publisher behind it) was trying to tell us: "We will be changing and tweaking things around to make DLS, CMP and Trainz better, but that would probably break compatibility with earlier (much earlier) versions of Trainz. We won't have time to fix it for you, sorry about that".
Discount coupons for upgrades, free demo versions and some notifications from Auran would be great.

 

[leeferr]

I never said you or anyone else is worthless. I merely am pointing out that you have no right to tell creators that they "need" to update their content. I have no right to tell anyone this either.

How am I alienating potential customers ? The biggest majority of my content works perfectly fine in my 09 native mode. Many of those that don't are things like Paint Shed items. If anything, they are the ones to potentially alienate by removing old content from the DLS. Whether they do this or not, only time will tell. If they do, people do have other avenues to host content.

BTW, can someone explain to me how hosting content is actually supporting a product. The TPR depot hosts content for 06 and we don't support that at all.

I totally agree with you on this. By the way, I was in error on one of my statements. I said that most of my content worked fine in 09. Your comment about Paint Shed items reminded me that my Paintshed items on the DLS show warnings in 09. I don't really think of these as mine since they're basically a reskin of an Auran asset according to Auran established presets. My meshes and config hasn't broken these assets and I'm not sure that there's anything that creators can do to fix Paintshed assets. They still run okay in 09 I believe, but they do show up with warnings.

Mike

 

[narrowgauge]

Mike

Simple rule - errors must be fixed but warnings are just telling you that there is a better way and they can be ignored.

Peter

 

[leeferr]

Peter
Thanks, but I already knew that. I only had about 5 items that are faulty in 09, but the whole warning thng just bugs me and I wanted to fix those. It just makes things a lot cleaner. I hate looking at CM2 and seeing all of those yellow exclamation points.
Take care
Mike

 

[paulzmay]

Chris,

I respect your opinion, but I don't have 100$ to go blow off over, and don't have the patience to back every thing up. I applaud you for doing that because I can't. Say I have a route that is already at 1,350 some odd dependincies, and I'm not even 3/4th's done with it. Those are all dependincies from 06 or below, because seeing as my 09 is shot, I can't import it up. So, when I release my route, and there are dependincies that NV3/Auran has taken off the DLS, what are the people that are going to download it forced to to do? Plus, let's not forget Slave-Driver's statistics. Here is the exact phrase:

Of the 10,186 locomotives on the DLS a mere 128 are for versions above TRS06. That's 1.25%.

Of the 15,532 non-locomotive rolling stock items only 167 are for versions above TRS06. That's almost exactly 1%.

They cannot possibly be serious about removing 'old' content in any time frame whatsoever.


So, due to this info, how can a thing such as removing older content, even be considered! I just can't wrap my mind around it.

Take care,

Ryan:wave:

P.S. I am NOT bashing anyone, nor trying to be rude to anyone, so please do not take it that way, I am only stating my humble opinion.

You've hit the nail on the head, and it's the reason we can't be quite as pessimistic as everyone around here is being. There is no way on earth that Auran are going to simply remove everything with an old version build tag on September 1st. However, they need to explain what (if anything) they intend to remove, and how they make that decision. I suspect that pre v1.3 items, faulty items and items with very few downloads from many years ago would be likely candidates, though they have also indicated an intention to make arrangements to correct errors, so an item being faulty may not be a reason to scrap it if it is correctable.

The other issues about DLS access and upload access for old versions is another issue. If you haven't bought anything since TRS04, then you've had a lot of free downloads already (unless you've just bought it budget - then you get what you pay for). Or you can buy an FCT. If you've bought the latest versions, but don't like them, then you still will have access. I imagine that the change to access methods is more to do with Auran wanting to re-vamp the DLS, but not need to re-patch several old CMP versions and TRS04 so as to be able to talk to it.

I do think that restricting uploads to new builds is a bit short sighted, as there could be a substantial number of TRS04 and 06 users with First Class Tickets, and nothing new to download. So long as all new content is error free in TS2009/10, then why worry if it has an older build tag? I imagine the answer is that the current DLS software has an error checking routine for every version of Trainz (so you can't use TC3 tags in TRS04 etc), as well as ensuring error free performance in the latest builds. So perhaps the answer is to permit older builds, but not check that newer features have been included. The impact of this would be that TS2009/10 users would see no difference, but sometimes users of unsupported versions would see an error (though TRS04 would ignore it anyway).

Just my (hopefully rational) thoughts...

Paul

 

[sparky15]

All this talk about content. I feel lucky I'm able to download so much of it. It's not a right. The creators took that time to share what they have done, nobody made them do it. They in no way, shape or form owe me anything and I have no right to expect them to upgrade or modify it, or their chosen version, because it doesn't work for my version. Something it seems some here and Auran have forgotten.

Dave......

 

[Scitimar]

You've hit the nail on the head, and it's the reason we can't be quite as pessimistic as everyone around here is being. There is no way on earth that Auran are going to simply remove everything with an old version build tag on September 1st. However, they need to explain what (if anything) they intend to remove, and how they make that decision.

Don't see that auran need to explain anything really , they can do as they see fit anytime they choose .

I do think that restricting uploads to new builds is a bit short sighted, as there could be a substantial number of TRS04 and 06 users with First Class Tickets, and nothing new to download.
Paul

Restricting uploads to new builds makes perfect sense to me , if there's no support for a particular build then that should be across the board , not a bit here and a bit there.

And

Since when is having something new to download been mandotory ... a first class ticket grants access to the the trough , not a free feed daily or weekly .

.

 

[Smileyman]

errors must be fixed but warnings are just telling you that there is a better way and they can be ignored.

Some warnings mention the possibility of a performance hit, so although they can be ignored, it's best to fix certain ones (like models under 300 polys using LOD levels).

Smiley.

 

[Buffalo_trains93]

All this talk about content. I feel lucky I'm able to download so much of it. It's not a right. The creators took that time to share what they have done, nobody made them do it. They in no way, shape or form owe me anything and I have no right to expect them to upgrade or modify it, or their chosen version, because it doesn't work for my version. Something it seems some here and Auran have forgotten.

Dave......

I agree with Dave, I agree with Dave :hehe: . Thank you for hitting the nail on the head Dave. Thank you also Paul for the compliment.

Take care,

Ryan

 

[Buffalo_trains93]

Double Post, sorry about that guys.

 

[Buffalo_trains93]

Originally Posted by meridious

BTW, can someone explain to me how hosting content is actually supporting a product. The TPR depot hosts content for 06 and we don't support that at all.

Meridious,

You have just proven something that was overlooked. Just like Meridious said. If we host content off the DLS, how exactly does that support Auran? And, TPR, without us supporting it (Granted there are donations, I would imagine) manages to keep on trucking.

Just some thoughts,

Take care,

Ryan:wave:

 

[leeferr]

Don't see that auran need to explain anything really , they can do as they see fit anytime they choose .......
.

They most certainly can. It may not be a smart move, but they can do it.

Oh, by the way, we creators can stop building anytime we choose also.

 

[Scitimar]

...........

Oh, by the way, we creators can stop building anytime we choose also.

Yep , you also have free choice , but you and others can stop or start as you please , it makes no difference to me ... self sufficiency is a wonderfull ... beholding to no one and free to comment as I see fit .

There's also more than one game , and at the moment 3 really cool game engines to which I can add items ..

Ain't life grand .

 

[WindWalkr]

So long as all new content is error free in TS2009/10, then why worry if it has an older build tag?

One of the many reasons is that our error-checking routines are very, very lax when checking older content. If we held the same standards with the older content as we do with the new stuff, we'd have nearly a 100% error rate.

To prevent this situation, we pass all of the pre-TS2009 content through a filter which strips out a lot of common errors before the content is checked. This is a very ugly hack and we'd like to get rid of it in some reasonable timeframe. (Keep in mind that we're talking about a project that's been running for more than 10 years here, so we do tend to take a fairly long-term view of future requirements.)

chris

 

[leeferr]

Chris

I really appreciate your chiming in here. I can understand some of what you're trying to say, but it seems that there must be some sort of error checking routine in TS2009 as CM2 will show whether there are any faults or warnings. Isn't it possible to apply the same sort of routine to the DLS to check older version uploads and reject any uploads to the DLS that show the same sort of errors that 2009 CM2 shows? I'm probably overlooking something, but speculation is all that we have to go on without definitive interaction with Auran.

I think that we're all just looking for some answers and everything that I've read so far here on the forums is pure speculation. I certainly want Auran to prosper, but I believe that this whole Trainz experience is a joint venture between Auran and third party creators. A little bit of discussion with creators would seem wise.

Maybe you could continue to allow 2004 uploads as long as they pass the 09/10 tests and anyone that hasn't upgraded to 09/10 must pay for the service of uploading and downloading. I've said all along that I'm willing to pay for DLS activity.

I haven't been able to get TS2010 to load, but I've been promised a new disc 1, so I can't comment a lot on it yet; however, I suspect that my computer won't run it very well, if at all. TS2009 is very jittery on by machine, but 2004 runs very well for me, so I will continue to create for myself in 2004. It would just be nice to be able to share my creations with other members on the DLS. I know that there are other sites that I can upload them to, but the DLS is a more convenient place for members to find something.

Thanks for letting me query a little.
Mike

 

[Sampug394]

Umm...

...Being a 2006 route builder myself, there's a lot of content I have to choose and download to make my fictional routes. I may not be a super awesome/controversial route maker, but I pride myself in my work that uses hundreds/thousands of things other people have generously made.

I'm kinda thinking that everybody FOR this whole change is overlooking an slightly concerning aspect:
There's 2384 routes on the DLS/CMP. Not including my own/etc.

Of all those, I'm pretty sure there's hardly any for TRS 09/10. The vast majority of them are for 2006 and under.
Imagine if those all went away... A whole lot of creativity and ingenuity down the big nasty drain of doom.




Now where do you people run all those fancy models?




You can't run a Train without a Railroad/Route to put it upon...

 

[meridious]

I guess that will leave the updated version of MRL to fall down the drain. Especially as it still uses alot of content made from 04 and UTC for that matter.

 

[Sampug394]

I guess that will leave the updated version of MRL to fall down the drain. Especially as it still uses alot of content made from 04 and UTC for that matter.

People hate it when routes are missing things.

You all think its inconvenient to have to post/search kuids manually on the forums and Google?

Think about the frustration when they don't Exist!