Yes, however, you might want to see the publicity and headache that Ubisoft is getting over this with AC2 at the moment before assuming that 'all the big boys are doing it, so it must be good'
Have You seen this
- Thread starter robin_hoods
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Yes, however, you might want to see the publicity and headache that Ubisoft is getting over this with AC2 at the moment before assuming that 'all the big boys are doing it, so it must be good'
I never said it was good, only that they were doing it. Also, Ubisoft is only the latest name of many that have tried it. Sometimes it's worked out really well for the company in question, sometimes not.
Like it or hate it, at the current time the industry seems committed to online authentication. All of the Microsoft products have been this way for a while now.
Personally I'm a Mac user at heart and I'm very glad that 'our side' hasn't gone that way yet, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time, especially after the success of the iPhone.
chris
Uh, no they don't.
All MS products use a one-time (for most people) C/R system that is usually automatic if online.
It is certainly not what anyone would call an online authentication system.
Sadly it's not working well for the "other guys" , there's an easy work around for children and adult alike , thanks to some inventive guys behind the wall , not even payware is safe . I don't see any effort on your part to be any more successfull , time and money best spent elsewhere imho .
I don't have a problem with online checks , most of my software is node locked , phones home at regular intervals or in the case of Autodesk , CIP is , and always has been active . FWIW and my opinion only .. You guys can do what you please if it means making an extra $$ ... just remember to issue a patch if things go bad
Not sure how you were thinking in regards to payware , but short of runtime decryption of mesh and textures protection is almost impossible if people are serious about theft .
Sci
I enjoy crossword puzzles, the more challenging it is the more enjoyable it is. I'm sure most hackers view DRM the same. Most probably don't care for the program itself but are after the enjoyment of cracking it.
I wonder how many millions of dollars software companies have wasted amusing these morons and aggravating their honest customers. An honest customer has to jump through hoops to get their program to work and a crook goes past all that like it wasn't even there. I've seen posts in other places where these users were about to buy the program they want but download a pirated copy to use, just to lose the hassle of DRM.
Dave.....
I wonder how many millions of dollars software companies have wasted amusing these morons and aggravating their honest customers. An honest customer has to jump through hoops to get their program to work and a crook goes past all that like it wasn't even there. I've seen posts in other places where these users were about to buy the program they want but download a pirated copy to use, just to lose the hassle of DRM.
Dave.....
Just because Microsoft uses it doesn't mean it actually works well though:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Mic...d-people-want-to-install-Windows-7/1248903826
For Trainz itself, I think the current copy protection scheme is good enough. Any security system created by the mind of man can be broken by the mind of man, given enough time and resources. I still remember the Apple II days where all sorts of weird copy protection schemes popped up for floppy disks. And of course there were also tools to allow you to make backup copies of those disks.
One of the big complaints about Ubisoft's DRM is that it requires (or required) a constant internet connection. And that can lead to things like this:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ubisoft-drm-was-attacked-at-weekend
From everything I've heard over the years, DRM often seems to harm the legit users more then the pirates.
Very true.
Although, I won't be jumping through any hoops, as I said earlier.
I know that a certain percentage of people will come around to accepting this way of operating, but I'm not one of them.
There's no ambiguity here.
If it needs activating online, then it will simply not be an option for me, and I'll look at other railway sims, or stick with my current version until Auran release one that doesn't need it.
Now all Auran have to do is to determine how many of their customers will feel like me, how many will decide to get a pirated version to avoid the hassle, and whether the total loss of sales is worth the effort.
As for using it for Payware, that won't affect me.
I bought a few items 2 or 3 years ago, and I doubt I'll equal that in the next few years.
One things for sure.
If Payware or future versions of Trainz use this method, it had better be stated clearly in a prominent position, so that people aren't duped into it without knowing.
Buyer Beware!!!
Smiley.
Kinda funny in a way , I've got a hardware dongle ( WIBU USB ) for a software package. I don't think it cost a lot in licensing ( would need to check ) , simple to install , it don't need to call home and I barely know it's there ... odd thing is it's not been broken , much to the dissappointment of more than few people :hehe: .... Strange how things work sometimes .
.
Yeah, dongles are just as bad...
I refer you to the case of 3DS 4 (this is pre-'3ds MAX' era), where the dongle insisted on being installed in the printer port.
'That's fine, it's a £3500 piece of software, they have a right to do that' you're thinking...
Well, except that if you accidently tried to print something it would destroy the dongle.
Autodesk refused to replace broken dongles, under any circumstances.
Almost 100% of game studios used pirated copies, keeping the expensive and fragile original copies locked up in cabinets where noone could get to.
I have no problem at all registering ONCE and I don't mind CMP phoning home before I can use it. I'm already there and it is quick and painless. Being on line just to run a game, no thank you at all.
I was a fan of RS until they pulled the need for Steam with RW. Kind of how I ended up back with Trainz. Having to load a third party program just to even run the sim seemed the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. The auto updates might be fine but more than a few forgot to run in off line mode and Steam went in and reverted everything back to out of the box. Trashed all the mods they did.
I understand the need to fight the pirates, I just wish they would stop making programs almost unusable for the honest folks.
Dave......
I was a fan of RS until they pulled the need for Steam with RW. Kind of how I ended up back with Trainz. Having to load a third party program just to even run the sim seemed the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. The auto updates might be fine but more than a few forgot to run in off line mode and Steam went in and reverted everything back to out of the box. Trashed all the mods they did.
I understand the need to fight the pirates, I just wish they would stop making programs almost unusable for the honest folks.
Dave......
Nope, I just wasn't able to guess from the vague references which particular conversation from 2 years ago you were talking about. Quite a lot has happened in that time.
Mind reading is not one of my skills regrettably. (nor anyone elses given the number of responses you got
)Mike.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Probably we weren't paying attention, though as TS2010 doesn't have DRM and Chris has said Auran has not looked into it, it doesn't seem all that important. Maybe another fuss over nothing?
Nor did they feel the need to say "No" when silence obviously did the job.Mind reading is not one of my skills regrettably. (nor anyone elses given the number of responses you got
I remember the conversation very well because online activation is a pet hate of mine, so when I saw the signs, I commented on it.
My error was assuming that some people here might have remembered it for the same reason.
Unfortunately, our world is such that things are forced on people because the masses can't be bothered to complain.
The exception was when EA changed their mind about billboards in their Rail Simulator being able to track your view, and download relevant adverts while you were playing, all because of public outcry.
I fear this community has too many "Sunshine Blowers" (to quote Ed), and that if Auran decide to go ahead with any form of this, they will just go along with it.
Those people wouldn't have understood what I was getting at last week, because it hadn't bothered them in the first place.
Good luck to those people who don't mind an "Auran controlled" expiry date on Trainz, and hence their creation therein.
Smiley.
If you call posting on the forums a fuss, then maybe.
Personally, posting my opinions here isn't a fuss.
It only takes a second.
And as the "TRS2004/TRS2006 support ends..." threads have proved, it's good for people to get their views out there if they feel strongly enough, whether or not it's on the table, and it's good for Auran to hear them.
No point telling Auran what a bad idea you think it is months after it's been implemented, when it's too expensive to pull it.
Smiley.
Apologies for replying then in that case, I just didn't want you to feel ignored
IF Auran decide to,they haven't shown any serious signs yet though have they. I'll be with you on the barricades if it does seem likely as I dislike online activation also. One major reason why I do not have Railworks is the stupid Steam requirement.
I'm not sure there is an "Auran controlled" expiry date on Trainz, and hence their creation therein" as you so dramatically put it, simply that those who have not contributed financially to the Trainz 'cause' by buying a new version recently, or are not currently paying their way with a FCT do not get the free use of services that cost money to provide.
That seems fair to me TBH, and not some conspiracy to rob the populous of their enjoyment and to make all children cry across the land as seems to be implied in many of those posts.
Mike.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Trainz is no more controlled than MSTS and less so than RailWorks. The proposition that Auran control the expiry date on any edition of Trainz is not true as any user of Trainz can ascertain for themselves.
But as we're getting demands in early, can I say to Auran that if you do not produce TS2011 for crass commercial reasons, I will most certainly not buy it in protest.
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Agreed on that. That's why I will not use Vista or Windows 7, and have actively discouraged all my clients to adopt those products. It's for similar reasons I've sworn off Blu-Ray, etc. Activation schemes put far too much power into the hands of content developers, rather than those who pay for it. The more people who realize that fact, the better they can control their rights.
well ,, no clouds on the horizon that I can see , so good thing for you then eh? :hehe:
It almosts sounds like you think you're buying something other than a license ... so before I type anymore can you clarify that bit ^^^
ta
I am glad there is no form of DRM with Trainz at least in the short term. This is one of the reasons why I no longer play Command and Conquer. EA, along with other game developers has decided to use SECUROM (SUCK-YOU ROM). This is a program, along with a Registry hack that sits in the background. You can't uninstall it without breaking anything, and if you install a game more than 10 times, the game is disabled.
This to me is one of the worst things to do. How many times have we uninstalled and reinstalled a program, and in particular a game? I've put things on and taken them off a computer many times, depending whether I'm rebuilding my system, or decided that it was time enough to retire the program for something else.
This DRM thing is one of the reasons why I don't like XP, Vista, and now Windows 7. They're all great operating systems, but they get mucked up eventually and need to be reinstalled. In the old days, this was an annual thing for me. Eventually the downloads, updates, and just plain installing and reinstalling software tends to make systems run slower no matter what kind of registry and system cleaners are run.
In the past I've used programs with dongles including 3DS 3.0 for DOS, 3DS4, and World Builder 2.0. The latter program still requires authorization, but it no longer needs the dongle to operate. What's worse one of the main suppliers of dongles just went out of business. This leaves many developers and users in a lurch because if a dongle dies, which happens due to many reasons, then the software no longer works. With developers they have to rewrite code to work around the dongle issue, and this hurts the development time. Shame on them for going in that direction.
The day that Auran decicdes that they would go the route of EA, I'll remove Trainz from my PC.
And no, I'm not a sunshine blower.
John
This to me is one of the worst things to do. How many times have we uninstalled and reinstalled a program, and in particular a game? I've put things on and taken them off a computer many times, depending whether I'm rebuilding my system, or decided that it was time enough to retire the program for something else.
This DRM thing is one of the reasons why I don't like XP, Vista, and now Windows 7. They're all great operating systems, but they get mucked up eventually and need to be reinstalled. In the old days, this was an annual thing for me. Eventually the downloads, updates, and just plain installing and reinstalling software tends to make systems run slower no matter what kind of registry and system cleaners are run.
In the past I've used programs with dongles including 3DS 3.0 for DOS, 3DS4, and World Builder 2.0. The latter program still requires authorization, but it no longer needs the dongle to operate. What's worse one of the main suppliers of dongles just went out of business. This leaves many developers and users in a lurch because if a dongle dies, which happens due to many reasons, then the software no longer works. With developers they have to rewrite code to work around the dongle issue, and this hurts the development time. Shame on them for going in that direction.
The day that Auran decicdes that they would go the route of EA, I'll remove Trainz from my PC.
And no, I'm not a sunshine blower.
John
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