you got me in tears with the the above statement .... damn, it's funny!
I do hope people understand it as I did !! :wave:
Ishie
Have you seen the anouncment from Tony?
- Thread starter steamdrivre
- Start date
you got me in tears with the the above statement .... damn, it's funny!
I do hope people understand it as I did !! :wave:
Ishie
Billegulla
New member
It has taken me two years to reach a reasonable level of competency in Gmax, and now they tell me that 2009 will not support Gmax, and I will have to start from scratch. This is not good news.:'(
I don't know if I should just give up or stay with 2004.
Bill.
I don't know if I should just give up or stay with 2004.
Bill.
REALLY ! Wow ive been trying to stay positive but after hearing that i think ill stay with 2006.
raildriver1
New member
Why not supporting Gmax ?? That's unbelievable! What about making content? Another program?
Auran should consider to stay with Gmax.
raildriver1
freightcar2
New member
Like a service pack?
Speaking of service packs, Auran really should make an SP2 for TRS2006.
I just did a test, and the new exporters don't work under GMax...
Now, I have to say this first... If we want to see TRS get better in the graphics area (which a lot of people are asking for), we have to make sure that the creation programs can do these things... For the most part, GMax can't (rendered textures, rendered normal maps, and so on). It can export specular, and it can export normal maps. But, it can't create them. Which means that Auran can't really support it for TRS09 (since to make things look equal with the latest sims, you really do need to go this path). But, as before, content created with GMax should still be able to work (As they have been saying that pre TRS09 content will work in a type of 'compatability' mode or something of the like). Which means that GMax isn't a total loss...
The main problem is that the supported gmax exporters don't export specular highlights, or normal maps. And you can't render the textures in it. These are features that are, in a sense, needed to allow the game to progress.
It is unfortunate. Very unfortunate infact, as it does cut off many of the people who have been creating for a long time.
However, if TRS were to stay with what could be said to be the current style of GMax models (limited to no shadowing in the textures) that most people create, then people would say 'well that game is terrible, it looks the same as TRS2004!'.Hang on, isn't that what people are already saying about TRS06/TC? People are asking for these updates, yet when they are made (with sacrifices) every one is up in arms...
Sorry for the fairly long winded post.
Zec
Now, I have to say this first... If we want to see TRS get better in the graphics area (which a lot of people are asking for), we have to make sure that the creation programs can do these things... For the most part, GMax can't (rendered textures, rendered normal maps, and so on). It can export specular, and it can export normal maps. But, it can't create them. Which means that Auran can't really support it for TRS09 (since to make things look equal with the latest sims, you really do need to go this path). But, as before, content created with GMax should still be able to work (As they have been saying that pre TRS09 content will work in a type of 'compatability' mode or something of the like). Which means that GMax isn't a total loss...
The main problem is that the supported gmax exporters don't export specular highlights, or normal maps. And you can't render the textures in it. These are features that are, in a sense, needed to allow the game to progress.
It is unfortunate. Very unfortunate infact, as it does cut off many of the people who have been creating for a long time.
However, if TRS were to stay with what could be said to be the current style of GMax models (limited to no shadowing in the textures) that most people create, then people would say 'well that game is terrible, it looks the same as TRS2004!'.Hang on, isn't that what people are already saying about TRS06/TC? People are asking for these updates, yet when they are made (with sacrifices) every one is up in arms...
Sorry for the fairly long winded post.
Zec
Billegulla
New member
The only one they say they are supporting is 3DS or something similar, which does not come cheaply.
Bill.
Bill.
Well, being that I require Gmax to export from Blender to Trainz with animation, losing such a thing would be absolutely devastating to me, and likewise, for other content creators. If Auran expects people to continue to create for the game, they would do well to keep supporting integration. Gmax is the only modeling application that is well documented as far as animation and texturing as to what Trainz likes, because believe me, if you don't get it right, it certainly won't function! Removing Gmax from the list puts most average content creators out of the ability to model (example: Billegulla).
Otherwise, I see no reason to be producing a game that only the rich (or illegally inclined) folks can model for.
Cheerio,
John
Otherwise, I see no reason to be producing a game that only the rich (or illegally inclined) folks can model for.
Cheerio,
John
They also the have a 'trainz mesh importer' which will import 'xml' files and export the .im file. No idea what programs can export these though
Zec
Torsten and John Whelan are working on a Blender exporter that exports to xml. This will replace the current Blender exporter, and should support animation.
As far as I can tell, models made by the current GMAX exporter will still be able to be used in '09. Like Zec said above, they may not have all the features that using some of the other modeling programs have, though.
It looks good apart from the split versions. I still don't get it, most people like to build their own routes and then drive on them. Also when I'm doing a route, I like to test it after and use it. Instead if you don't by both, you build the route, then send it out having not tested it and then we can't even use them. Or if you only get the driver version, if you want to modify or expand the route, your stuck. Also TC3 was really good aside from the installation which made me get rid of my previous Trainz Classics. But the performance for me is really slow on that and recently I bought Isle of Wight railways for railsimulator, that was exrtremley detailed and has off scene extras and animated people as standrad and runs extremley smooth on my computer. Also it installed excellent first time. Aswell as I like the new surveyor tools, whats the point of making routes if I can't run them. The tracks look good however. However I am looking forward to it and will be getting both versions but I still don't see the point in Spilt versions. I thought a lot didn't like trainz driver because the couldn't build their own routes. Or I could stick with TRS2004 or Railsimulator.
At the end of the day you are going to find that you can still do everything you can do now in gmax.
You will also have the option to produce much more sophisticated models with more polys, larger textures and improved performance, although to take advantage of this you will need to use more sophisticated tools than gmax.
In addition you will be able to use other tools such as 3DS Max (expensive), Blender (same price as gmax
) and anything else that any third party cares to write a translator for.
If everything works according to plan there should be no need for anyone to complain about anything. Except perhaps the fact that Auran aren't putting the position across with any particular clarity.
You will also have the option to produce much more sophisticated models with more polys, larger textures and improved performance, although to take advantage of this you will need to use more sophisticated tools than gmax.
In addition you will be able to use other tools such as 3DS Max (expensive), Blender (same price as gmax
) and anything else that any third party cares to write a translator for. If everything works according to plan there should be no need for anyone to complain about anything. Except perhaps the fact that Auran aren't putting the position across with any particular clarity.
Thoughts on a couple of points...
Agree that if the Surveyor pack doesn't have the ability to drive the routes then what is the point. The "split" pack is a nonsense frankly, unless of course the marketing guys are thinking in 6 months time after initial release...here comes TS2009 Deluxe Edition with Surveyor and Driver all in one.
And if you buy the engineers version - with all these wonderful new routes/scenic items the community has been tasked with creating in six months but not in TRS2004/TRS2006 - if there's no Surveyor how are you supposed to create new sessions? Unless of course we are getting a proper Scenario/Timetable Editor this time round.
I currently use 3D Canvas (well actually a combination of Train Sim Modeller and 3D Canvas) for my train simming 3D work though I do share the concerns of those who use Gmax. Let's hope 3DC continues to be supported.
Agree that if the Surveyor pack doesn't have the ability to drive the routes then what is the point. The "split" pack is a nonsense frankly, unless of course the marketing guys are thinking in 6 months time after initial release...here comes TS2009 Deluxe Edition with Surveyor and Driver all in one.
And if you buy the engineers version - with all these wonderful new routes/scenic items the community has been tasked with creating in six months but not in TRS2004/TRS2006 - if there's no Surveyor how are you supposed to create new sessions? Unless of course we are getting a proper Scenario/Timetable Editor this time round.
I currently use 3D Canvas (well actually a combination of Train Sim Modeller and 3D Canvas) for my train simming 3D work though I do share the concerns of those who use Gmax. Let's hope 3DC continues to be supported.
what to do now?
I'm really at a loss now
I'm relatively new to Trainz, run 2006. I love to create things, that's why I love Trainz (regardless of the problems). From reading about the new features in 2009 for surveyor, I'd just love to get my hands on it to create even better routes.
But... I just started a big project (a route), and I already have a lot of issues with assets I'd like to use, but are showing faulty for 2006. Now, that is likely to get even worse for 2009? Will I be able to continue/finish my project in 2009, or will it have to be finished in 2006 and then be obsolete before I even finish it? If I create the route in/for 2009, will I then exclude everybody with earlier versions? I've created a bunch of buildings in Sketchup, but can't get them exported to Trainz (and since there are NO buildings for that particular part of the world available, I HAVE to make some myself), so everyone was telling me to go learn Gmax, now I'm told that Gmax is going obsolete, go learn Blender (or whatever). I just spend a lot of time fixing assets (other people's) to run for 2006, already feeling that it was a waste of time, since it's only locally available (and I'm not allowed to share the fixes), and now I have to fix them all over again for 2009? Will all the "faulty" (for whatever reason) assets out there be pretty much useless in the future (that's thousands and thousands of assets, some of them very unique)?
Frankly, I'm real confused at the moment. Do I sit and wait for 2009 now? Do I sit and wait for an exporter for Sketchup? Do I try to learn Gmax? Or Blender? or something else entirely? I've just made a bunch of assets, and in the middle of some more, will I now have to fix them all again for 2009? Should I just stop and wait with that as well?
I'm just a newbie, that loves Trainz and the creative outlet it offers me. And I'm willing to put up the money, and put in the time and effort, to learn what it takes to create "stuff" in this wonderful toy. But right now I feel a little lost.
I'm really at a loss now
I'm relatively new to Trainz, run 2006. I love to create things, that's why I love Trainz (regardless of the problems). From reading about the new features in 2009 for surveyor, I'd just love to get my hands on it to create even better routes.
But... I just started a big project (a route), and I already have a lot of issues with assets I'd like to use, but are showing faulty for 2006. Now, that is likely to get even worse for 2009? Will I be able to continue/finish my project in 2009, or will it have to be finished in 2006 and then be obsolete before I even finish it? If I create the route in/for 2009, will I then exclude everybody with earlier versions? I've created a bunch of buildings in Sketchup, but can't get them exported to Trainz (and since there are NO buildings for that particular part of the world available, I HAVE to make some myself), so everyone was telling me to go learn Gmax, now I'm told that Gmax is going obsolete, go learn Blender (or whatever). I just spend a lot of time fixing assets (other people's) to run for 2006, already feeling that it was a waste of time, since it's only locally available (and I'm not allowed to share the fixes), and now I have to fix them all over again for 2009? Will all the "faulty" (for whatever reason) assets out there be pretty much useless in the future (that's thousands and thousands of assets, some of them very unique)?
Frankly, I'm real confused at the moment. Do I sit and wait for 2009 now? Do I sit and wait for an exporter for Sketchup? Do I try to learn Gmax? Or Blender? or something else entirely? I've just made a bunch of assets, and in the middle of some more, will I now have to fix them all again for 2009? Should I just stop and wait with that as well?
I'm just a newbie, that loves Trainz and the creative outlet it offers me. And I'm willing to put up the money, and put in the time and effort, to learn what it takes to create "stuff" in this wonderful toy. But right now I feel a little lost.
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johnwhelan
Well-known member
They also the have a 'trainz mesh importer' which will import 'xml' files and export the .im file. No idea what programs can export these though
Zec
Torsten has basically built one and flipped me a beta. I've modified it slightly to correct a spelling mistake in the .xml and I've just put it up on Sourcenet so you can pull it down and try it out.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/blenderextrainz
I haven't done the full functionality testing but it is good enough to create basic scenery objects and rolling stock.
I understand Torsten is still clarifying the animation side about what is expected etc. but the conventional Blender exporter can be used for the moment.
Cheerio John
atsfrr3000
New member
I'll chime in on the two-product plan here.
The way I read it, TS2009: World Builder's Edition will be the complete set. Driver, Surveyor, Content Manager, the whole kit-n-kaboodle. In fact, it says so right here:
Lest we get confused and think "TS2009" in this quote refers to the combination of the two products, look further down the page, where apparently "TS2009" and "TS2009 Engineer's Edition" are two seperate products.
So it seems to me that Trainz 2009: World Builder's Edition (shortened to TS2009) will be the complete package, released this November as the next big release of Trainz. By the looks of it, TS2009 will include a lot of legacy content from previous editions (to ensure backards compatibility) while being somewhat sparse on the new content (conjecture, it doesn't actually say this but it's my assumption), similar to the pre-TRS2006 releases.
Then, sometime next spring once creators are getting the hang of creating pretty routes and content using TS2009's capabilities, Auran picks the best of the best available at the time and releases them as TS2009: Engineer's Edition, which, to me, seems almost analogous to TRS2006: Driver's Edition (i.e. no Surveyor) plus a limited version of Content Manager to download new routes.
In summary, as far as I can tell, TS2009: World Builder's Edition will be the big, complete release, while TS2009: Engineer's Edition will be the new Driver's Edition plus a content manager.
If Tony, Chris, Rob, or anyone else at Auran could step in and confirm/deny this I'd be greatly appreciative
The way I read it, TS2009: World Builder's Edition will be the complete set. Driver, Surveyor, Content Manager, the whole kit-n-kaboodle. In fact, it says so right here:
Lest we get confused and think "TS2009" in this quote refers to the combination of the two products, look further down the page, where apparently "TS2009" and "TS2009 Engineer's Edition" are two seperate products.
So it seems to me that Trainz 2009: World Builder's Edition (shortened to TS2009) will be the complete package, released this November as the next big release of Trainz. By the looks of it, TS2009 will include a lot of legacy content from previous editions (to ensure backards compatibility) while being somewhat sparse on the new content (conjecture, it doesn't actually say this but it's my assumption), similar to the pre-TRS2006 releases.
Then, sometime next spring once creators are getting the hang of creating pretty routes and content using TS2009's capabilities, Auran picks the best of the best available at the time and releases them as TS2009: Engineer's Edition, which, to me, seems almost analogous to TRS2006: Driver's Edition (i.e. no Surveyor) plus a limited version of Content Manager to download new routes.
In summary, as far as I can tell, TS2009: World Builder's Edition will be the big, complete release, while TS2009: Engineer's Edition will be the new Driver's Edition plus a content manager.
If Tony, Chris, Rob, or anyone else at Auran could step in and confirm/deny this I'd be greatly appreciative
Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
But at least more people are understanding the announcement now - which is a good thing.
There will be more content in the November release than any previous release of Trainz. How much of it will take advantage of the new features is at this stage unknown. This is one of the reasons we have decided to do the "two version" approach. People who like to dabble in Surveyor will want to buy the World Builder edition (either download or order the DVD and have it posted to you). Those who like to drive will have to wait for more content to be created.
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