Great DLS Cleanup

C

cascaderailroad

New member
How many old assets do not work or show up in TS12 ?

How many old assets do not work or show up in TS10 ?

I am under the impression that alot of fix's,and cleanup is required in order to get older assets working in 09, 10, 12 ???

Looking over config files from 04, 06, 09,10, 12 versions ... it appears that the formats are quite different, and oftentimes jumbled, and contain un-needed text ... why is this so haphazzardly written ?

It would seem that a new version of Trainz like TS10 and TS12 should have an "Automatic" program like "Content Manager Plus" whereby you enter an old 04, 06 asset, or a faulty 09, 10 asset ... and the "Content Manager Plus" automaticly re-writes the config file for you, and gets ALL assets working.

It seems that the old way of writing 04, 06 config files has been improper and problematic, and that is why assets do not show up.

I mean ... why is it so difficult to write a config file ... so that it works in your version, and too in backwards versions ???

It seems that everyone writes config files in their own way, with very little in common.

Why is Trainz so difficult to write config file, and backdate them for earlier versions ?

I see a day when there is an "Automated Fix" program built into Trainz ... but that is not even in the near future.

Perhaps if ALL assets were "automaticly fixed" by a "automatic re-writing program" in a version of Trainz like TS12 ... fossils like "me" would have no problems upgrading to the highest version of Trainz, and abandoning 06.

Overall ... Just how many 04, 06, 09, 10 assets, do not even function in TS12 ?

It seems that the "Great DLS Cleanup" is ineffective, or "not enough".

==============================

My idea is for an automated program ... when you open up an asset in "Content Manager Plus" and type in the wanted Trainzbuild (whether it be back dated, or forward dated Trainzbuild) ... that the "Content Manager Plus" would display "Config File Successfully Re-written" to your version of Trainz.
 
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There is a program that partially does what you say - it's called CCP. It also standardizes the config.txt format.

As for why config files vary so widely, it's because Trainz doesn't really care (at least, usually) about the order of things, as long as everything's there.

I make an effort to standardize config.txt by running all my repairs through CCP, but it's not necessary to the operation of the sim. And, while I'm guessing here, it seems Auran did some basic, automated repair, namely of assets that had empty "name" tags. It used to be every other asset or so had that as the main or sole error; but, I've seen it maybe 4 or 5 times since doing the official DLS Cleanup.
 
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Yes ... I use the CCP in TRS2006 ... but why does it not automaticly fix, and re-write and backdate 09, 10 12 assets ?

And does TS12 have a CCP that automaticly fix's ALL old and faulty 04, 06 assets ?

I guess that I am dreaming of a day when everything works, and everthing is fixable, by an automatic config file re-writing program.

=========================

What I want in TS13 is a CCP that fix's ALL assets ... then I could totally abandon 06 completely.
 
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"I see a day when there is an "Automated Fix" program built into Trainz ... but that is not even in the near future."

That's what I've been saying, an automatic fixer should have been invented BEFORE the pedantic petulant error checker. Since there isn't one, it should be a crash priority.

" There is a program that partially does what you say - it's called CCP."

No. It SOMETIMES works with some assets, but usually fails somewhere. Try fixing an old TRS2004 spline or track that way, you can strip out all the obsolete stuff but it doesn't automatically replace it with modern data, so you get something that's "error free" in content manager but the spline won't work in the game. There's also no obvious way to add the new data and no manual or tutorials available anyplace, so you're stuck hacking the config.txt, taking us right back to the haphazard jumble of config.txt formats. A utility that automatically fixes most common problems and suggests manual fixes for whatever it can't do automatically (missing textures for example) has been needed for a long long time.
 
The day when an "Automatic Fixer" program is implemented ... will be a joyful day in Trainz.

If TS12 had ALL old assets working, and fixable ... I would have dumped 06 long ago.
 
sniper297 said:
No. It SOMETIMES works with some assets, but usually fails somewhere. Try fixing an old TRS2004 spline or track that way, you can strip out all the obsolete stuff but it doesn't automatically replace it with modern data, so you get something that's "error free" in content manager but the spline won't work in the game. There's also no obvious way to add the new data and no manual or tutorials available anyplace, so you're stuck hacking the config.txt, taking us right back to the haphazard jumble of config.txt formats. A utility that automatically fixes most common problems and suggests manual fixes for whatever it can't do automatically (missing textures for example) has been needed for a long long time.
Click to expand...

Yes, CCP partly fills that role. Not totally. It's great if you need a mesh-table.

I can see how some fixes could be better-automated e.g. checking an asset to see if a "missing" texture is referenced in the mesh and is really needed, but if an asset really is missing a texture, then how is a program supposed to come up with the missing item? Sure, you could substitute a red or pink or blue TGA or BMP, but is that what's supposed to be there? Frankly, about the only tools that would make my job easier is a CCP that adds the Trainz-build OF MY CHOOSING, auto-increments the kuid, and adds a thumbnail container, and perhaps a jpg of the asset itself. And maybe auto-deleting empty, but non-essential tags. Those tend to be the biggest time-wasters as far as I'm concerned.
 
"It just needs a few more gnomes before Christmas."

What it really needs is adult supervision. All them 10 year old kids are doing is running stuff through content creator and checking that it shows no errors in content manager, then uploading like crazy without testing to see if it actually works or not. End result is engine specs like the Alco RS3 that only work in DCC mode and won't run in CAB mode, or invisible splines;

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showth...y-assets-to-2.9-for-TS2009-and-later-versions

Once you go through the content creator process twice, a spline will show as error free, the upload 'bot will be perfectly happy accepting it because it finds no errors, but the asset is useless despite being error free because it just doesn't show up.
 
cascaderailroad said:
Snip....
It seems that the old way of writing 04, 06 config files has been improper and problematic, and that is why assets do not show up.

I mean ... why is it so difficult to write a config file ... so that it works in your version, and too in backwards versions ???

It seems that everyone writes config files in their own way, with very little in common.

Why is Trainz so difficult to write config file, and backdate them for earlier versions ?
Click to expand...

Simple, there are not enough examples of configuration text samples around for the new versions of Trainz. If it wasn't for PEV (and others I guess) who slaved laboriously to include some examples recently in the DevWiki, there STILL would not be some/many examples of these config.txt examples now needed around. I mean not just for a simple scenery item, look at any locomotive's configuration with bogies, coronas, smoke, night mesh, fans, attachment points, animation, head lights, engine specs, drivers, etc., then passengers enabling, opening doors, scripting entries, texture changes, automatic numbering and so on, one can easily see just one little slipup somewhere in the text entries, even an older correct text at the time, can make the setup of configuration a nightmare. Hence having correct and current configuration examples around from where one can use their text for one's own configuration needed is mandatory and necessary now. If you use someone else's configuration for your own configuration, you might get their errors (if any) into yours too.

In the olden days, Trainz was even coded to IGNORE certain configuration errors to keep on working despite having these errors (although correct at the time this content was made) with older content versions to keep compatibility with these older content in new Trainz versions. Then there are the usual new and different code changes between different Trainz versions, where old tags, config.txt entries or whatever were being made obsolete and require(d) now different configuration texts. At least in the olden days there were Content Creator Guides around to at least get a look at some of the configurations required but now? If, as said, it was not for people like PEV and Paul Hobbs and others who at least gave the DevWiki a better workover to include such needed tag and configuration examples and explanations, what do you think the state of affairs would be now if these people mentioned had not done this?

Auran/N3V is deafening with their absence of help and explanations regarding the above, all we hear this is not profitable for them with no money around to do these needed Content Creator Guides. They want us Content Creators to do all that DevWiki stuff updating/explaining ourself now. But as I pointed out time and time again in other posts, Auran/N3V do not seem to care anymore about the ordinary content creator as one can see now and even Chris (Windwalkr) explained in some recent posts, Auran/N3V now PAY Payware Creators for creating stuff for Trainz, to again make more profit themselves from the sale of these creations. Why do you think your mail box is getting swamped with their emails every few days now to get you to buy and pay for this or that new Payware Trainz creations? It is now all geared towards PROFIT, PROFIT and again more PROFIT, where the ordinary content creator seems to be in the way of doing his/her creations as apparently now these are not good enough anymore. Hence NO help is given now regarding configuration help from their side. Don't let me even mention the current state of the DLS now, which is now geared towards the same goal with Auran/N3V's payware creations. If you buy these Payware creations, there is obviously NO need for maintaining and improving and upgrading its current DLS dilemma.

It is as simple as that IMHO.

And there is always a new version of Trainz appearing with AGAIN more code changes and therefore new configuration changes in these needed.

Cheers

VinnyBarb
 
sniper297 said:
"It just needs a few more gnomes before Christmas."

What it really needs is adult supervision. All them 10 year old kids are doing is running stuff through content creator and checking that it shows no errors in content manager, then uploading like crazy without testing to see if it actually works or not. End result is engine specs like the Alco RS3 that only work in DCC mode and won't run in CAB mode, or invisible splines;

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showth...y-assets-to-2.9-for-TS2009-and-later-versions

Once you go through the content creator process twice, a spline will show as error free, the upload 'bot will be perfectly happy accepting it because it finds no errors, but the asset is useless despite being error free because it just doesn't show up.
Click to expand...

Sniper

I recently created several splined objects in Gmax using a pre-2009 config file, and I’ve been looking for a way to upgrade them to build 2.9 or higher.

I cloned two of the objects, so as not to corrupt the originals, copied and pasted the ‘Track’ container, and followed your tutorial ‘Updating scenery assets to 2.9 for TS2009 and later versions’, and it worked perfect except for one thing.

When I open the cloned object in a route, I’m able to install it, and it looks and works perfect, except it does not show up in the ‘Object Viewer’ window.

If I just clone the asset without making any changes, the cloned asset shows up OK in the window.

Do I need to add anything to the config file to correct this?

Also, do the LOD-Distances of 250, 80, and 30 need to be changed?

Thanks

Joe
 
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Beats me, none of mine show up in the preview window either, I haven't figured that one out yet. As Vinny says the main problem is examples, if I have a known-good example to go by I can nearly always reverse engineer it to figure out why it does what it does. Problem is the lack of examples, TS12 has New And Improved Useless Error Messages so I look for built in TS12 content that has the tags that the error message complains about and there are none to be found.

As for Pev's Asset X, I haven't gotten back to that since I've been busy with other things, the one time I tried to install it I got a bunch of errors.

Even if it works flawlessly for everything it's something N3V should buy from PEV and build into content manager. Expense? Word of mouth advertising, how many sales are lost every day due to some n00b telling all his friends that "nothing works when you download it and it's too hard to learn how to fix it all"? The current setup is just not newby friendly or idiot proof, so the first impression any new Trainz user gets is that it's a hopeless junkyard. Gotta also bear in mind that 90% of computer users today are the "pointNclick" type, never had to install the operating system or edit config.sys and autoexec.bat files to get the mouse working, most of them expect to buy a game and if it has downloadable addons they work out of the box. Batteries not included, some assembly required, accessories sold separately will discourage the majority right out of the starting gate.

assembly.jpg
 
jrfolco said:
Sniper

I recently created several splined objects in Gmax using a pre-2009 config file, and I’ve been looking for a way to upgrade them to build 2.9 or higher.

I cloned two of the objects, so as not to corrupt the originals, copied and pasted the ‘Track’ container, and followed your tutorial ‘Updating scenery assets to 2.9 for TS2009 and later versions’, and it worked perfect except for one thing.

When I open the cloned object in a route, I’m able to install it, and it looks and works perfect, except it does not show up in the ‘Object Viewer’ window.

If I just clone the asset without making any changes, the cloned asset shows up OK in the window.

Do I need to add anything to the config file to correct this?

Also, do the LOD-Distances of 250, 80, and 30 need to be changed?

Thanks

Joe
Click to expand...

Adding a preview mesh entry in the mesh table will fix that problem. you can use the same mesh.

as in

Code: 
mesh-table
{
  default
  mesh                        "default.im"
 auto-create                1         
 }

  preview-mesh             
  mesh                      "default.im"
  auto-create             1           
  }
}

etc.
 
Thanks, that works. :wave: Also goes to underline some of the limits of content creator minus, there's no mention of a preview mesh in it, and of course all the help leads to empty wiki links which haven't been written yet, help yourself by editing this page. :hehe: I added the text to the config file, which resulted in error warnings about tag not allowed in container yada yada, so I edited in content creator, removed the preview mesh and added it as a second mesh with the name "preview-mesh". Which got rid of the errors, but of course the spline now shows in the preview window but the mesh itself is no longer visible because content creator removed all the track LOD data in the process of removing the "faulty" preview-mesh tags. So back to manually hacking the config.txt to add the track data underneath, now it works.

This is really a topic that belongs in a content creator thread, but it does explain why there are so many faulty assets for the end users - the whole process of content creation is a trial and error guessing game aiming at goal posts which are constantly moving.
 
clam1952 said:
Adding a preview mesh entry in the mesh table will fix that problem. you can use the same mesh.

as in

Code: 
mesh-table
{
  default
  mesh                        "default.im"
 auto-create                1         
 }

  preview-mesh             
  mesh                      "default.im"
  auto-create             1           
  }
}

etc.
Click to expand...

Malc

Thanks for the comeback, however, I was having some difficulties, so I tried Sniper's method in the previous post and was able to work it out.

Joe
 
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sniper297 said:
...........Batteries not included, some assembly required, accessories sold separately will discourage the majority right out of the starting gate.
Click to expand...

Great picture! Note the guys only have one tool between the whole lot of them and what is it? A Hammer!!!:hehe:

Mick.
 
Land of the Lost...

:cool: Then improvements to the game are to allow high definition content to display without burning out your hardware. These improvements are equal to other game platforms. The complexity that Trainz has become requires this. The command windows that display TrainzUtil action have always been present but we had no way to show them.

What is wrong with N3V making money? The Auran Trainz subsidiary, no company can run on a break even budget.

What is so new about relying on Third Party Content Creators to do the work? Especially if the office only has three employees that can create content, they are working on improving the game. Yes, N3V is big enough to offer to pay for certain assets...and have...Big, is better!

Creating an art 240x180-pixel file called $screenshot$ replaces the art folder, and will show in the asset list in Railyard...

And remember this is a train simulation software.

TRAINZ RULES!
 
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Phew, Backyard. You certainly like to throw the cat amongst the pigeons. I am waiting with baited breath for certain arrogant ferals to attack you for holding such views. Though I personally do not agree with all you have said, I heartily defend your right to express your opinion. After all this is a forum for opinions. Indeed Trainz Rules!
 
All purpose "fixit" tool

AssetX is the brainchild of Andi06, with some input from me.

Andi's knowledge of Trainz from over the years is amazing and his ability to code that knowledge into a tool like AssetX is extraordinary.

AssetX is close to being a "auto-fixit" tool but as already noted here, it does not cover all cases. I have used the scripting facility to fix many assets for the DLS cleanup and in 95% of cases they work straight away.. As asset repairers we are (or should be) obliged to test before uploading. Occasionally the AssetX repairs are incomplete.

And when it comes to things like Splines you basically have to build a new asset.. This is why I don't attempt to repair them.

The errors that occur in AssetX follow a minor change that Microsoft made to a DLL in Windows via their update service. When we first built the program it was very robust, but all of a sudden it was throwing errors. Finding the cause of the errors is difficult because it's buried so deep in Windows.

However if you click through the start-up errors the program will work once you have cleared the error notices. On my WinXP SP3 computer it works perfectly. On Win7 it also works perfectly for me. So the errors do not aways arise.
 
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