GPU crashing when working on route

[hiawathamr]

Today has been an interesting day to say the least.

This started happening today while I was working on my route as usual (TRS22 is the main game used) on my computer and it would crash/freeze up until eventually the GPU crashed at that point either crashed Trainz as well or made the classic Trainz error come up with “Error: Render initialization has failed”.

I did attempt at restarting the GPU before rebooting Windows with the Windows button + CTRL + ALT + B combo and like always, doesn’t reboot the GPU driver (I’ve used this a few times and it never resolved the issue, and the computer still had to be rebooted).

Anyway, after the GPU crashed the first time around, it blue screened after a minute or so (see pic 1).

Second time working on my route, the GPU driver crashed, Trainz showed the error with “Error: Render initialization has failed” followed by the long string of characters (no pic) so that meant rebooting the computer.

After rebooting, I launched Trainz and immediately the computer froze and remained that way for a couple of minutes before blue screening again (see pics 2 & 3).

At this point, it was time to just save the route, so it wasn’t marked as open for edited and to back it up to my network server and get back on my working computer and finish the route there which I was about to without issues.

My GPU hovers at 87 C to 90 C when running Trainz (I know probably hot but I have no access to AC).

My hardware specs are:
MSI GS66 Stealth
Processor: 11th Gen Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-11800H @ 2.30GHz 2.30 GHz
Installed RAM 16.0 GB
Storage: 8 GB SSD Msft Virtual Disk, 954 GB SSD WDC (Trainz storage), Crucial 3.64 TB SSD (boot drive)
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU (6 GB), Intel(R) UHD Graphics (128 MB)
System Type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch: No pen or touch input is available for this display

And my OS is:
Edition: Windows 10 Pro
Version: 2009
OS Build: 19045.5965

I have the latest GPU driver as of this post (576.80) along with other system drivers.
I’ve also went ahead and used the sfc /scannow command and first time around it found and fixed corruption. However, this didn’t do anything to fix it.

Now you are asking – why MSI and not Dell or whatever.
My answer – because MSI fit my budget and at the time, had very good specs vs the competitors and $1300 at the time. I also wanted the basic appearance of a computer vs this bulky spaceship thing. Another thing about MSI is, we can upgrade both RAM, storage, and do basic cleaning without voiding the warranty unlike other computer companies by simply popping the bottom cover off – this here was a major decision-making part.

I typically do my own troubleshooting but this one I’ve decided to share with the community to hear what your thoughts could be while I continue with troubleshooting the computer.

You'll need to put up with the phone pics as I can't take screenshots when a computer is 100% frozen or blue screened (for those that'd complain about phone pics of a monitor).
Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

Cheers

 

[RetroRails12]

might as well buy a Desktop computer because windows 10 Life Support ends in a couple months only 1 security update then you have to buy a new pc..

 

[JCitron]

That's a classic sign of overheating. NVidia has a hardware limit of 83 C. The GPU chipset will try its best to cool things off by throttling down the GPU. You'll notice stutters and slow redraw as it tries very hard. If that doesn't work, it'll shut itself down and cause a crash.

If you can cool down your laptop using a cooler of some kind, that'll help a lot. I would check your laptop manufacturer's website first for any kind of fan-control utilities. If there aren't any, you may want to look into something like MSI Afterburner, available here https://www.msi.com/Landing/afterburner/graphics-cards , or on Steam.

This will allow you to adjust your fans and also lower the power-draw by your GPU. I've lowered the power-draw for my RTX 3080 and there was no discernable difference in performance and the end result was a cooler video card.

 

[oldman777]

Some versions of video drivers may cause problems for certain graphics card models.
I would download an outdated version of the driver that definitely worked stably with this video card, then turn off the Internet, completely uninstall the driver, install the outdated one, and use group policies (gpedit.msc) to prohibit updating video driver by hardware ID.

 

[pdkoester]

Aside from the overheating, and using some software to alter fan curve speed settings, you might consider getting the dust bunny out of it. Can of air or an air compressor should do the trick. If you already have cleaned out the bunny, then maybe try rolling back the Nvidia driver to an older version that is more stable.

 

[hiawathamr]

might as well buy a Desktop computer because windows 10 Life Support ends in a couple months only 1 security update then you have to buy a new pc..

Do I still have to buy a desktop when my computer can get Win 11 free? lol
I've been putting the 'upgrade' on hold as Win 10 is simple to use than what Win 11 is where I'll have to mod the system to bring it back some aspects that Win 10 has.
If Win 7 was still supported, I would still be on that to this day as that was my favourite OS as it was simple, no bloatware, it never bug me to do XZY, etc.

That's a classic sign of overheating. NVidia has a hardware limit of 83 C. The GPU chipset will try its best to cool things off by throttling down the GPU. You'll notice stutters and slow redraw as it tries very hard. If that doesn't work, it'll shut itself down and cause a crash.

If you can cool down your laptop using a cooler of some kind, that'll help a lot. I would check your laptop manufacturer's website first for any kind of fan-control utilities. If there aren't any, you may want to look into something like MSI Afterburner, available here https://www.msi.com/Landing/afterburner/graphics-cards , or on Steam.

This will allow you to adjust your fans and also lower the power-draw by your GPU. I've lowered the power-draw for my RTX 3080 and there was no discernable difference in performance and the end result was a cooler video card.

Thanks for sharing this John.
I've downloaded AB and I've lowered the voltage/frequency using the curve editor to the lowest setting possible so its hardly there.
I've been stress testing this using TRS22 from Steam (different than my work version which is from the store) on my route. So far the highest I've seen it seems to go is 85 - 87 C. I can't seem to undervolt the MEM part however as I can't seem to find that setting (if that's even possible).
If you want to share more recommendations, I'll appreciate it and give those a try.

Some versions of video drivers may cause problems for certain graphics card models.
I would download an outdated version of the driver that definitely worked stably with this video card, then turn off the Internet, completely uninstall the driver, install the outdated one, and use group policies (gpedit.msc) to prohibit updating video driver by hardware ID.

There was one time I had to backdate a GPU on my Win 7 computer back in 2017/18(?) when NVIDIA released a buggy driver update that would crash the driver even when you simply loaded into the desktop. I skipped a few months before doing another update. I don't think its a driver issue this time around or else I probably would've experienced it more frequent.

Aside from the overheating, and using some software to alter fan curve speed settings, you might consider getting the dust bunny out of it. Can of air or an air compressor should do the trick. If you already have cleaned out the bunny, then maybe try rolling back the Nvidia driver to an older version that is more stable.

i've checked my fans and no dust. I'll be popping the cover off today to blow air in to clean any up that are still hanging on.


Cheers

 

[RetroRails12]

Do I still have to buy a desktop when my computer can get Win 11 free? lol
I've been putting the 'upgrade' on hold as Win 10 is simple to use than what Win 11 is where I'll have to mod the system to bring it back some aspects that Win 10 has.
If Win 7 was still supported, I would still be on that to this day as that was my favourite OS as it was simple, no bloatware, it never bug me to do XZY, etc.

Yes you do because Your Laptop is From 2009 and its well past its prime since your getting the Blue Screen Of Death.. 2 issues that you showed us hints at both operating System and GPU have both given the blue smoke.. I would not push your laptop anymore than you have to and all you can really do now is transfer your files over to a working PC... your new PC if you go the Prebuilt route(there are some pretty good ones out there if you look for them and well worth about 1k or a little less when they go on sale with the bigger GPU's in the same GPU that you have in your laptop right now).. most if not all Prebuilts can have their parts upgraded over time and also come with windows 11 (if you want pro you can get that as well for a little more money)... You still have a couple months to decide what to do. If you want the list of Prebuilt Desktop PC's Let me know and i will get the details to ya.

 

[JCitron]

My settings are pretty conservative. As a retired hardware technician, I make small changes first and see how they go before doing more. Many times, I'll find something that works with little or no major tweaking.

Here are my Afterburner settings:

Power Limit - 85%

Under the fan control:

Enable user defined software automatic fan control.
(don't check firmware).

The curve is linear from 30% to 80% C then curves slightly at roughly 95% C then tops at 100%
The points are set at: 50 C, 70 C, and 80 C.

I've tried some variants and found that this one works just as well as the other and is much simpler.

I also check, or leave checked, Override zero fan speed with hardware curve. This keeps the fan low and doesn't turn them off at the lowest temperatures.

 

[johnwhelan]

I might do the upgrade to win 11 if your machine supports it. It is a little more stable and the drivers have been updated.

Cheerio John

 

[hiawathamr]

Yes you do because Your Laptop is From 2009 and its well past its prime since your getting the Blue Screen Of Death.. 2 issues that you showed us hints at both operating System and GPU have both given the blue smoke.. I would not push your laptop anymore than you have to and all you can really do now is transfer your files over to a working PC... your new PC if you go the Prebuilt route(there are some pretty good ones out there if you look for them and well worth about 1k or a little less when they go on sale with the bigger GPU's in the same GPU that you have in your laptop right now).. most if not all Prebuilts can have their parts upgraded over time and also come with windows 11 (if you want pro you can get that as well for a little more money)... You still have a couple months to decide what to do. If you want the list of Prebuilt Desktop PC's Let me know and i will get the details to ya.

Actually it was released in 2021
I suggest rereading my post - mainly the hardware specs as they aren't from 2009.

My settings are pretty conservative. As a retired hardware technician, I make small changes first and see how they go before doing more. Many times, I'll find something that works with little or no major tweaking.

Here are my Afterburner settings:

Power Limit - 85%

Under the fan control:

Enable user defined software automatic fan control.
(don't check firmware).

The curve is linear from 30% to 80% C then curves slightly at roughly 95% C then tops at 100%
The points are set at: 50 C, 70 C, and 80 C.

I've tried some variants and found that this one works just as well as the other and is much simpler.

I also check, or leave checked, Override zero fan speed with hardware curve. This keeps the fan low and doesn't turn them off at the lowest temperatures.

Thanks - I'll give those a try as well... if I can somehow enable those. So far they seem to be disabled so I can't adjust some of those except for the voltage/frequency curve :/

I've also enabled turbo fan mode as well which help keep things cool which is why it'll report a cool GPU (and I took that pic after exiting Trainz).

Cheers

 

[pdkoester]

Not suggesting doing it, but you can use the Rufus utility to create a bootable USB drive that can install Windows 11 with very little or no bloat, not requiring a Microsoft account, etc.
When I do it this way I would have another drive ready to install. Should be easy to swap back and forth drives, so you don't lose anything and can go into Windows 10 if you need stuff. Get your Windows Product key set to the side before you proceed.

 

[JCitron]

Actually it was released in 2021
I suggest rereading my post - mainly the hardware specs as they aren't from 2009.



Thanks - I'll give those a try as well... if I can somehow enable those. So far they seem to be disabled so I can't adjust some of those except for the voltage/frequency curve :/

I've also enabled turbo fan mode as well which help keep things cool which is why it'll report a cool GPU (and I took that pic after exiting Trainz).

Cheers

This is possible if your fans are controlled through a utility supplied by your laptop manufacturer. Dell/Alienware has their own and so does Asus, HP, and Lenovo. You may want to update that if you have it installed, or install it from the manufacturer's website.

 

[RetroRails12]

Today has been an interesting day to say the least.

This started happening today while I was working on my route as usual (TRS22 is the main game used) on my computer and it would crash/freeze up until eventually the GPU crashed at that point either crashed Trainz as well or made the classic Trainz error come up with “Error: Render initialization has failed”.

I did attempt at restarting the GPU before rebooting Windows with the Windows button + CTRL + ALT + B combo and like always, doesn’t reboot the GPU driver (I’ve used this a few times and it never resolved the issue, and the computer still had to be rebooted).

Anyway, after the GPU crashed the first time around, it blue screened after a minute or so (see pic 1).

Second time working on my route, the GPU driver crashed, Trainz showed the error with “Error: Render initialization has failed” followed by the long string of characters (no pic) so that meant rebooting the computer.

After rebooting, I launched Trainz and immediately the computer froze and remained that way for a couple of minutes before blue screening again (see pics 2 & 3).

At this point, it was time to just save the route, so it wasn’t marked as open for edited and to back it up to my network server and get back on my working computer and finish the route there which I was about to without issues.

My GPU hovers at 87 C to 90 C when running Trainz (I know probably hot but I have no access to AC).

My hardware specs are:
MSI GS66 Stealth
Processor: 11th Gen Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-11800H @ 2.30GHz 2.30 GHz
Installed RAM 16.0 GB
Storage: 8 GB SSD Msft Virtual Disk, 954 GB SSD WDC (Trainz storage), Crucial 3.64 TB SSD (boot drive)
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU (6 GB), Intel(R) UHD Graphics (128 MB)
System Type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch: No pen or touch input is available for this display

And my OS is:
Edition: Windows 10 Pro
Version: 2009
OS Build: 19045.5965

I have the latest GPU driver as of this post (576.80) along with other system drivers.
I’ve also went ahead and used the sfc /scannow command and first time around it found and fixed corruption. However, this didn’t do anything to fix it.

Now you are asking – why MSI and not Dell or whatever.
My answer – because MSI fit my budget and at the time, had very good specs vs the competitors and $1300 at the time. I also wanted the basic appearance of a computer vs this bulky spaceship thing. Another thing about MSI is, we can upgrade both RAM, storage, and do basic cleaning without voiding the warranty unlike other computer companies by simply popping the bottom cover off – this here was a major decision-making part.

I typically do my own troubleshooting but this one I’ve decided to share with the community to hear what your thoughts could be while I continue with troubleshooting the computer.

You'll need to put up with the phone pics as I can't take screenshots when a computer is 100% frozen or blue screened (for those that'd complain about phone pics of a monitor).
Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

Cheers

Picture #3:
The "DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION" error in Windows 10 is a Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) error indicating that a Deferred Procedure Call (DPC) took too long to execute, causing the system to crash. This often points to issues with device drivers, hardware, or software conflicts.

Here's a breakdown of potential causes and solutions:
Causes:

• Outdated or faulty drivers: Graphics card, SSD, and other device drivers are common culprits.
  
  
• Hardware conflicts: Newly installed external devices (hard drives, printers, etc.) can sometimes cause problems.
  
  
• • Software conflicts: Antivirus programs or other software might interfere with system processes.
    
  • Overheating: CPUs or other components overheating can trigger the error.
    
  • Corrupted system files: Damaged or missing system files can lead to instability.
    

Solutions:

1. • 1. Check for and install driver updates:
     • • Update drivers through Device Manager or manufacturer websites.
         
       • Consider using a driver updater tool like Display Driver Uninstaller (DDU) to safely remove and reinstall graphics drivers, according to a Reddit thread.
         
   • 2. Disconnect external devices:
     • • Unplug any newly connected external devices (hard drives, etc.) to see if they are the source of the problem.
         
       • If disconnecting helps, reconnect devices one at a time to identify the faulty one.
         
   • 3. Check for software conflicts:
     • • Uninstall recently installed software, especially if the error started after installation.
         
       • Consider temporarily disabling antivirus software to see if it resolves the issue.
         
   • 4. Run a memory diagnostic test:
     • • Windows has a built-in memory diagnostic tool that can help identify RAM issues.
         
   • 5. Check for overheating:
     • • Monitor CPU and other component temperatures using monitoring software.
         
       • Ensure proper cooling and ventilation.
         
   • 6. Run System File Checker (SFC):
     • • Open Command Prompt as administrator and run sfc /scannow to scan and repair corrupted system files, according to Microsoft Community.
         
   • 7. Perform a system restore:
     • • If the error started recently, you can restore your system to a previous point before the issue occurred.
         
   • 8. Consider SSD firmware and SATA AHCI controller:
     
     • • Outdated SSD firmware or problems with the SATA AHCI controller (which manages data transfer between storage devices) can cause the error.
         
   • 9. Check the Event Viewer:
     • • The Event Viewer can provide more detailed error messages that can help pinpoint the cause.
         
   • 10. Disable Fast Startup:
     
     • • Go to Power Options in the Control Panel, then Change settings that are currently unavailable, and uncheck Turn on fast startup.
         

If these steps don't resolve the issue, consider seeking more advanced troubleshooting from a qualified technician or posting on a tech support forum

 

[hiawathamr]

This is possible if your fans are controlled through a utility supplied by your laptop manufacturer. Dell/Alienware has their own and so does Asus, HP, and Lenovo. You may want to update that if you have it installed, or install it from the manufacturer's website.

I've took a look and couldn't find anything related to fan control (unless its named something that you won't think of).
Anyway I've also contacted my friend from Africa who also works in the IT field and his response was also towards the overheating as well.

I'll share this as well - after I've undervolted the GPU that AB allows, I've also turned on turbo mode to keep the temps down until I was done working on my route for the day at which I turned it off. During the route work time, nothing has crashed so that also helps to confirm that its an overheating issue and not a hardware issue (thank goodness).
Well, I guess until winter arrives again, I'll use turbo whenever Trainz (mainly) is launched to help keep my system cool.

Thanks for your help with my little adventure

Cheers

 

[hiawathamr]

Giving another update that its an overheating issue since I was about to work on this area today without the GPU crashing

MSI AB:

I also had turbo running via F8 shortcut key that is programmed with the computer to keep temps down.

Trainz:

Thanks again for the replies.

Cheers