General info needed about prewar RR's in the US

R

RW912

Trans Europ Express
Hi guys, obviously I don't live in the US as you can see from the title of this post, so the answer to my question could be simple to you but I guarantee it isn't for me. Here we go:

I have almost finished building my ( large) fictional interurban rr. route with a mainline connection (B&M, NH) to complete it . It is entirely fictional, when I mention some of the town have names like Innsmouth , Arkham, Salem and Newburyport some of you could imagine the atmosphere I have created ( hint: H.P. Lovecraft ). The time period is around 1920 and the location is somewhere in New England.
That said I have questions about the right types of rolling stock for use on the mainline:

Passenger cars ( I am thinking about mostly heavyweight cars) : Did companies mix their cars in a consist ? Here in Europe, passenger cars ( sleepers, diners, coaches, etc. ) were scattered all over europe depending on the demand, a train departing from Germany with a destination in Italy could have German, Swiss and/or Italian companies cars in it. Did this happen in the US too, as in could you see a Union Pacific coach in a consist with mostly AT&SF rolling stock?

Freight cars: In the time period I am creating on the route, which type of boxcars, hoppers, etc. were used? I assume Hicube box cars didn't exist yet, how about 50' box cars?

Thanks for your help,

Ron
 
Here in the US the term interurban is generally used in reference to electrified railways which fell in a class somewhere between tram and full railroad shortline.

Almost 11pm here right now and this is coming from memory while tired ...

The following covers mainline steam railways ...

With the passenger cars, it kinda depends, but, yes, there were a few connections where a car was transferred. I want to say usually a sleeper/Pullman morseo than a coach.
But, having said that, either a coach or a sleeper could be picked up or dropped off at a point where a branch line connected with the mainline.
Eventually some such stations had ground connections for supplying electricity and heating steam, and air for pressurizing the water tanks.

Diners/restaurant cars, were sometimes used in a set area and swapped between trains.
As in, the Westbound uses it between City A and Town B, drops it off at Town B, the a later Eastbound stops and cuts it in at Town B, uses it between there and City A, drops it off, where car is taken to be cleaned and restocked.
Or,
The diner might stay in a long distance train for several days, being restocked at extended station stops.

There could be baggage cars full of long-distance mail which were hauled to connect with another railroad at an intermediate point.

There could be special express merchandise and express refrigerator cars in a passenger train so they would make it faster to their destination city.

Freight cars ...

There might have been some 50 footers, maybe gondolas.
Box cars were still primarily in the 40ft range with some earlier 36 foot and even a few 34 foot types in use.
There will be observably different freight car sizes as they grew in size during that decade.

> Although I do not model the 1920s I do follow a Word Press blogger who does and has has lots of information.
Gimme a bit to go look him up.
Blog name escapes memory right now.
 
 
The B&M and MEC used to team up and run trains in partnership with each other. They were friendly to each other and were nearly merged together on their own. From the late 1940s on, when both railroads dieselized, they even had the same paint-scheme. Like the Maine Central, the B&M and New Haven partnered with passenger trains. The two companies would run passenger trains from New London, Connecticut to Portland Maine. The New Haven ran trains from the ferry terminals in New London up to Worcester where the passengers switched to the Worcester Nashua, Rochester, and Portland, owned by the B&M, and rode up to Portland Maine where they would continue their trips up to Bar Harbor Maine after a journey to Bangor where they switched to the Bangor and Aroostook, or to other locations in the mountains on the many MEC branches. In Rochester, New Hampshire, these B&M/NH through trains would stop so that passengers could switch to the locals that ran to Lake Winnipesaukee, or take more longer-distance trains up to the White Mountains. All of this service died away in the Great Depression with the WNR&P going first in pieces in the 1920s when the B&M filed bankruptcy and had to liquidate lines in order to become profitable again.

There were a number of interurbans in New England with a number of them in Connecticut. Many of these were controlled by the New Haven including the Providence and Bristol, and others in central Connecticut. In Western Massachusetts in the Berkshire Mountains was the Berkshire Electric Street Railway. This company served the local towns in the Hoosac River valley and like many companies in the region, the Great Depression put them in the grave. It didn't help that the automobile and small trucks came along either and siphoned off passengers and any less than carload freight (LCL). There was similar service in Maine that ran to York and Portland such as the Portland and Saco, and in Massachusetts there were a number of electrics in Eastern Massachusetts, these were mostly commuter lines such as the
small narrow-gauge railroad, The Boston Revere Beach and Lynn that could be considered an interurban. This company initially ran parlor cars with velvet cushioned seats and large vestibules, pulled by small Mason-Bogey steam locomotives until about 1910 when they electrified. They took their parlor cars and turned them into electric cars using motors under the floor and an overhead trolley system. This company competed quite aggressively with the Boston and Maine, but they couldn't compete with the local transit companies and the automobiles that took their business away. They went out of business just before WWII started. Today, their ROW is the Blue Line in Boston from East Boston to Revere.

The other electric lines were mostly local, regional companies such as the Amesbury and Haverhill which also had branches to Salisbury and Newburyport where they brought passengers to the shore. In Amesbury proper, was the Amesbury Electric. This company was an interurban used to carry freight and passengers for the many mills that once populated the city.

As far as equipment, the railroads ran heavyweight passenger cars. Some of the named trains, such as the Congressional Limited between Boston and Washington, D.C., a partnership between the New Haven and Pennsylvania Railroad, that ran between Boston and D.C. would have observation cars and dining cars. This was probably the same with those trains heading up to Portland Maine as well as others that were meant for the wealthier folks heading to their summer homes in the mountains or on the lakes.

My late piano teacher used to take the train from Haverhill to Boston then Boston to North Adams, Massachusetts to visit her family out in that part of Western Massachusetts. She described in detail riding in the Boston and Maine wooden coaches with the windows open. Her mother would complain about the soot getting all over their clothes during the trip. She said that young boys probably 12 or 13 would board the train at various locations to sell box lunches and ice cream. When the train reached Hoosac Tunnel Station, they would wait and an electric locomotive would couple on to pull the train through to North Adams located on the other side of the Hoosac Mountain Range. In addition to visiting family in North Adams, she would also stay at her aunt's house located up the road from Hoosac Tunnel Station. The electric service on this line was terminated in 1946 when the B&M switched to diesel locomotives.

Freight was carried in all kinds of freight cars (wagons). They were definitely not high-cubes, double stacks, or 53-foot boxcars. In those days, they used 40-ft or smaller with reinforced wooden walls on the boxcars and some early steel boxcars.

For the rolling stock, I highly recommend you visit Trainzforge.
trainz-forge.com

Trainz Forge

Creating quality games, by gamers, for gamers!
trainz-forge.com trainz-forge.com

Trainboi1 and others have created equipment that is suitable for the period you are modeling. Jackson Barno has created period-accurate freight wagons and other rolling stock that is perfect for the time period.
 
Wow, both of you, many thanks for all the information, it gives me a good insight in prewar (interurban) rr traffic in New England. On30, your info and that blog helps a me lot , thanks. John, as usual you are a treasure chest of information, I'll look at the Trainz Forge link and the usernames you mentioned, I have the interurban trainz from PWeiser's site.

Both of you have won a cold glass of Belgian beer ! 🍻


Ron
 
RW912 said:
fictional interurban rr. route with a mainline connection (B&M, NH)
Click to expand...
Hey, if you do have interest in the US's electric interurban railroads, these 2 books are quite nice references.
Traction Classics published 1983 by Golden West Books, a long time US railway subjects publisher.
The Interurban Era published 1961, sixth printing 1975, by Kalmbach, publisher of Model Railroader and of Trains magazines.
(historical note, Model Railroader magazine's first issue cover date was January 1934)

➡️ Note: I've not any clue what the European availability of these books is.

(my copy of Interurban Era is without dust jacket and cover is all black, that's why title page instead of cover photo)


 
Last edited:
There was some important traffic I forgot to mention in my post. My father actually jogged my memory because he randomly mentioned it to me the other day. New England railroads ran milk trains mostly from Vermont, where they interchanged with the Rutland Railway, to the big cities such as New York City, Boston, and other places in the region as well as the many towns along the routes. These trains carried passengers in wooden heavyweight cars coupled on the end of the milk cars. The milk cars were wooden cars similar to a boxcar but heavily insulated to keep the milk fresh. These trains stopped at various communities exchanging full metal milk jugs for the empties to be returned back the dairies in Vermont.


The logo on this car is modern, i.e. ca. 1950s after Patrick McGuinness got ahold of the Boston and Maine. His wife designed this logo and the odd square logo for the New Haven which he had control of as well during the period. Prior to this, the logo would have been the simpler log with Boston and Maine typed out.

Railroads also carried mail and packages. The long-distance trains had rail post offices located on the front of the train coupled to the mail cars and baggage cars. The RPO had US postal workers sorting the mail enroute to ensure on-time delivery when the mail reached its destination. Sometimes, either coupled at the front, or stuck on the end of a passenger train would be boxcars for carrying packages. The Railway Express Agency was one of the more famous companies that dispatched packages to customers similarly to what UPS and Fed-EX do today. As you can imagine, if the train had an observation car at the end, there would be no boxcars or milk cars attached.

Up until the early 1960s, there was one other delivery done by the local railroads. These were the newspaper trains. The big newspapers such as the famous Boston Globe or the Record American would have the railroads hand off bundles of newspapers to the various towns on the way. These trains also carried passengers, and like the milk train, was more of a local train because they stopped at each and every station along the way. My dad remembered missing his commuter train from Boston and ending up on either a milk train or a newspaper train. My dad said that coming home from school was awful, and said the trip took something like three hours instead of the normal hour because of the long stops at each station along the way.
 
on30gn15 said:
Hey, if you do have interest in the US's electric interurban railroads, these 2 books are quite nice references.
Traction Classics published 1983 by Golden West Books, a long time US railway subjects publisher.
The Interurban Era published 1961, sixth printing 1975, by Kalmbach, publisher of Model Railroader and of Trains magazines.
(historical note, Model Railroader magazine's first issue cover date was January 1934)

➡️ Note: I've not any clue what the European availability of these books is.

(my copy of Interurban Era is without dust jacket and cover is all black, that's why title page instead of cover photo)


Click to expand...
Apologies for the late reaction..I am down with a flu and not happy about that at all. Anyway, I browsed Amazon for these books, both copies are available ( second hand of course ) but the prices are ridiculous, one is 55 euro (The interurban era) and the other is 157 euro (U$ 58 and U$166) . That is slightly above my budget, shame though, I would love to have them. But I appreciate your tip and who knows, perhaps someday I see these books for an affordable price...


Ron
 
JCitron said:
There was some important traffic I forgot to mention in my post. My father actually jogged my memory because he randomly mentioned it to me the other day. New England railroads ran milk trains mostly from Vermont, where they interchanged with the Rutland Railway, to the big cities such as New York City, Boston, and other places in the region as well as the many towns along the routes. These trains carried passengers in wooden heavyweight cars coupled on the end of the milk cars. The milk cars were wooden cars similar to a boxcar but heavily insulated to keep the milk fresh. These trains stopped at various communities exchanging full metal milk jugs for the empties to be returned back the dairies in Vermont.


The logo on this car is modern, i.e. ca. 1950s after Patrick McGuinness got ahold of the Boston and Maine. His wife designed this logo and the odd square logo for the New Haven which he had control of as well during the period. Prior to this, the logo would have been the simpler log with Boston and Maine typed out.

Railroads also carried mail and packages. The long-distance trains had rail post offices located on the front of the train coupled to the mail cars and baggage cars. The RPO had US postal workers sorting the mail enroute to ensure on-time delivery when the mail reached its destination. Sometimes, either coupled at the front, or stuck on the end of a passenger train would be boxcars for carrying packages. The Railway Express Agency was one of the more famous companies that dispatched packages to customers similarly to what UPS and Fed-EX do today. As you can imagine, if the train had an observation car at the end, there would be no boxcars or milk cars attached.

Up until the early 1960s, there was one other delivery done by the local railroads. These were the newspaper trains. The big newspapers such as the famous Boston Globe or the Record American would have the railroads hand off bundles of newspapers to the various towns on the way. These trains also carried passengers, and like the milk train, was more of a local train because they stopped at each and every station along the way. My dad remembered missing his commuter train from Boston and ending up on either a milk train or a newspaper train. My dad said that coming home from school was awful, and said the trip took something like three hours instead of the normal hour because of the long stops at each station along the way.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this, John, this is something for a session once the route is ready for one.

Ron
 
RW912 said:
Apologies for the late reaction..I am down with a flu and not happy about that at all. Anyway, I browsed Amazon for these books, both copies are available ( second hand of course ) but the prices are ridiculous, one is 55 euro (The interurban era) and the other is 157 euro (U$ 58 and U$166) . That is slightly above my budget, shame though, I would love to have them. But I appreciate your tip and who knows, perhaps someday I see these books for an affordable price...


Ron
Click to expand...
you can check the books out of an online lending library if they are available at archive.org www.archive.org You need to sign up but once you do, you'll have full access to the online books for up to an hour at a time and you can download the pdf versions of them after 40 hours.
 
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