Johnk, thanks for reminding me. I have your site in my favorites but didn't think to go there. A senior moment. I downloaded both programs but I'm not having any luck with the DEM. I keep getting error messages and I'm not sure how to go about using a DEM. All I want is a DEM of the Tillamook Bay Railroad located in Oregon but I'm getting frustrated trying to get one. I was hoping someone would be kind enough to send me one but I'm assuming that it's a lot of work because no one has responded. I'll keep trying, that is a very interesting railroad. Take a look.