Flickering in MS Platforms

[AnalogOldguy]

Hello,

I'm wondering what to do about a problem of shimmering, or flickering in MS Platforms and MS double platforms in a route I downloaded.

I am using DirectX 9c, Windows XP ,and a Radeon X800XT graphics card.

I have noticed a similar effect before with low to the ground concrete platforms, and have fixed this completely by lowering the ground a bit underneath these.

Lowering the ground does not fix the problem here.

I have searched the Forum, and have learned that there is such a thing as texture fighting in Trainz.

In most of the routes I have that use these platforms, they look very good and there is no flickering.

In this latest downloaded layout, some stations using these look perfectly good, but in one particular instance, with multiple tracks in a large station, there is a flickering down the middle of the MS Platforms.

Can anyone give me an idea on how to correct this?

Thanks much! Bob P.

Using Trainz 2004 SP4

 

[stagecoach]

This will be normal from a certain distance away, the closer you get it should get less. This is caused by the platforms over lapping each other, you will find that they have used two single sided platforms back to back to fit into the layout.

 

[JCitron]

Hi Bob,

This problem is caused by what are known as co-planar faces. Your video card is trying to display the geometry of two very close objects at the same time and can't quite do that so the objects flicker as they both compete for display. This problem isn't just a problem with Trainz, or has anything to do with your video card, computer drivers, etc., and will happan with any 3D program and models that use two very close objects.

The way to solve this is to move one of the two away from each other, perhaps a pixel or two if possible. This is just enough to stop the flickering. You'll also see this with night-mode meshes that are too close to the surface of the main building as well.

When I put stations together, I will move the invisible platform up off the surface just a smidge so that they stop flickering when seen from above. This is just enough to stop the flicker, but not so much to make the people float in the air.

The same thing happens with roads too and the way to solve this is to adjust the terrain or the road about a pixel or two off the surface of each other. Again I make sure that the road isn't floating, but is just a hair off the surface.

John

 

[AnalogOldguy]

Hello again!

Thank you fellows for this good information. (You know I am only a complete amatuer here, learning as I go along).

As Stagecoach said, some of this is normal. And it is because two single platforms are overlapped. I also see some of this "flashing" in some buildings that have windows, and have read here that some video cards have trouble with close-together "planes" (or whatever they are called).

I have learned to live with this, and it is not terrible!

But this wide, blocky flashing down the middle of the platforms is extremely noticible. I have managed to recreate it exactly on an empty baseboard.

A single MS Platform shows no flicker. A single MS Double platform shows no flickering. But a drastically overlapped two single platforms create the exact problem. So I suppose the creator overlapped these to make a "narrower" double platform.

I am thinking that the overlap problem did not show up on the computer used to create the layout. But is maybe showing up on my computer because my card is somewhat sensitive to this.

Now that I have an idea of what this is, perhaps I will be able to fix it! But have learned already that controlling two splines close together, is not the easiest thing to do!!! As John suggested, I will try to move one of the platforms over by a tiny bit. (but can you move a spline with just the usual "move" button)? .... I'll find out !!!:'( Bob P.

 

[AnalogOldguy]

Well, I've done my experimentation with the MS Platform splines! (Trying to move them over by tiny pixels)...

It's very hard to get the flickering to stop, probably because there are square tiles on the top surface, which seem to constantly interfere with each other.

I think I will take the easy way out and remove one side of the doubled up splines of the narrower platforms. I did it, and it looks good enough for me! I'm not a fussy driver, I just want to drive around.

On the very wide center platform, I think I can live with the wide flickering, because it only only happens at one end (since it overlaps more there to make a tapered end).

What can I say? I do love the route!

I've also learned one no-no for a Surveyor... do not accidently lay one spline over another, or you may go to the Trainz black screen of Termination death!!

Thanks friends, for this learning experience! Robrt P.:hehe:

 

[stagecoach]

Hi Bob
Moving the platform apart slightly wont work in this case but move the spline points up by 0.01 on only one side will stop that flicker as you have moved the pixel 1 point away. Not only sideways but up and down will do the trick. If you lay two different splines over each other sometimes they will want to join. This is because they have both used the same att point names and the splines think they are the same so attempt to join. If you press the shift key while you lay the spline they wont attempt to join and the black screen wont appear.

You will find lots of tricks as you go on.

 

[AnalogOldguy]

And the person with the best solution to this particular problem is ....Stagecoach .... but, now that I have read John's advice again, he did mention raising things up.

I had thought previously about raising or lowering the platform splines, but the option doesn't show until you go into "Advanced"! Stagecoach said to do it, so I figured it had to be in there somewhere! I found it!

The platforms now look very smooth. But it was tricky finding the hidden spline points along the length to raise and lower.

I made sure I "saved" very often. And sure enough, as I was fooling around adjusting the end slopes of the platforms, the program locked up! Not a black-screen lock-up, but a frozen screen-frozen computer lockup.

At first, I was going to be satisfied with a noticeable large lip showing, but remembered JCitron's advice about as few pixels as possible, and got it down pretty well.

Thanks to you all! Bob P.:udrool: