First layout running, now for the questions

[bcarter]

I'm working on a 24" x 48" Z scale layout that is a variant of the Gumstump and Snowshoe. I got the bright idea that duplicating it in Trainz might be a fun subject for my first attempt to create a route. It would also give me the chance to make changes in the simulator to improve the physical layout. I've got it running and landscaped to this stage. Lots more to do and I may try to create a "room" and add other micro layouts in the same room based on existing layouts or ideas.

Having gotten to this point by trial and error I have a few observations and several questions.
First the observations.
This is an excellent way to visualize your model layout, anticipate problems and see if it has operational interest.
You can tweak spur and switch lead lengths to maintain the puzzle aspect that adds to a micro layout's enjoyment.
Laying track and getting trains to run was more straightforward than I had anticipated.
A double switch is easy to do with a little research on technique.
Zooming in close can help when placing additional spline points for the double slip.
Doing a specific track plan and then landscaping around was harder than I hoped.
I could not join the trestle rail to the rusty rail but you could do the reverse.
Once you make elevation changes objects you place may end up underground.
Tunnel portals are a pain in tight spaces. i spent more time on the tunnels and portals than the rest of the layout combined.
I want a dig hole that can be shaped.
Wire frame view is very helpful once you add elevation.
Trees pushed down make nice shrubs but the trunks look bad inside the tunnels. ;-)

Now the questions. If you have an answer or suggestion for only one question, please post it. I'll take all the help I can get. I've sorted by priority.
1) Do you lay track or terraform first?
2) Is it possible to move splines using coordinates? I kept hoping I could right click and enter coordinates for vertices. I wanted to do the same for certain terrain vertices too.
3) Is there a dighole smaller than 10m x 10m?
I've seen reference to some sort of terrain plane to help cover digholes. Where do I get them or any other way to cover the white hole? Can I place something on the floors and walls under the layout so at least the hole is black?
4) How do I get rid of the switch levers that end up in the center of another track?
5) Are the some great small footprint tunnel portals out there? Mine are arch bridge sections.
6) Can paint be erased or removed? i.e Can I remove some of the grass I placed?
7) I’m sure skills improve with practice but why do some hills get pointed and others rounded?
8) Is it only possible to get a near vertical face in the topography if I follow a line of 10m x 10m squares?
9) What does choosing scale do? I chose Z scale but I'm not sure what that did for me. I couldn’t lay a 220mm radius curve for instance. I still had to convert to full scale dimensions.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Take care,

Brent

 

[oknotsen]

1: varies per route.
2: not that I know. Would be a nice suggestion.
3: no.
4: go to tracks side assets and use that delete option (or drag them to the right place).
5: please describe in more detail what you mean/want.
6: no. Only paint over it. The default grid is also paint, but by default not listed; you will have to edit that asset if you want it.
7: depends on brush size and sensitivity.
8: you can achieve the same at a 45 degrees angle.
9: only effects the scale of the rulers.

 

[pware]

Being an "old timer" with creating Trainz layouts since the sim first appeared, I will attempt to answer some of your questions but others will have more expertise in some areas that I do.

1) There is no set answer here. You can do it either way. The payware program TransDEM (and its Trainz variant) can do both for you at the same time based on satellite map data. Personally, when I build a layout manually from map data I lay the track first, sets its correct height and then bring the terrain up around it.
2) No. Splines have to be moved by dragging the spline points with the mouse.
3) Not to my knowledge. Dig holes are just a "gap" in the baseboard and they can be covered by a physical object such as a house or other scenery object that is masquerading as a piece of terrain (they are on the DLS).
4) There is a tool in the track objects flyout that will switch the lever from one side of the track to the other and this usually solves that problem. But if your tracks are so close together that there is no room either side for the lever then there are other options such as using an invisible lever and laying point rodding (a spline object) to connect the junction point to another lever and set the two to work so that the one lever switches both junction points (there is a object that does that for you).
5) Most certainly there are. You simply have to search for them (not an easy task I must admit when there are 100s of thousands of items on the DLS)
6) Removed no, but like painting a house you can paint over an existing texture with another. There used to be a limit on how many times you can do this but that limit has either been greatly increased or eliminated.
7) It depends on a number of things but the size (radius) of the terrain forming tool you are using is crucial. The bigger the radius the smoother the curve.
8) You can never get truly vertical cliffs but by reducing the grid size to 5 x 5 (the fine black lines inside the yellow 10 x 10 grid) the effect can be improved. You set the grid size when you add each baseboard. There is of course a penalty, smaller grid size means more data points and a larger file size for the layout.
9) Don't know the answer to that one. I only ever use real scale.

Hope this helps
Peter

 

[bcarter]

Wow! That was fast. Between the two replies you seem to have covered my questions thoroughly. Thank you both.

oknotsen,
With regard to question 5 I found two nice stone tunnel portals (one each with and without retaining walls) but in what I'm sure is an effort to cover any dighole that might be encountered they came with a large section of hill attached to them. Using my screenshot for the example if I had used one on the fourth tunnel portal whose track goes under the trestle, the hillside attached to the tunnel portal in question would have extended over both tracks near the red loco. I was happy when I found them but couldn't use them with out a way to "trim" the width of the attached hillside.

pware,
I'll look for more scenery objects as options to cover the digholes around the portal. As I recall the two tunnel portals i found but did not use were trackside objects.

One more while I've got you. Is there another term to search for walls or embankments that are splines? My wall on the left leaves much to be desired.

Thanks again.

 

[pware]

Is there another term to search for walls or embankments that are splines? My wall on the left leaves much to be desired

One of the problems with searching the DLS or your installed content with CM is that all the assets are named by the creators and there is no standard naming or classification system. Add to that the fact that not all creators use or understand English.

TANE SP2 provides saveable pick lists that can gather together all your favourite assets. So once you find, for example, scenery walls that you like, you can create a "Wall Picklist" that are always at your call without having to search for them.

 

[philskene]

Brent --

In response to Question 1, I'm a great advocate of laying the track and then doing the terra-forming. There is a series of screen shotz in this thread of a layout of mine as it progressed, Post #2593 onward:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?109038-Model-Railroadz/page173

The other suggestion is to use a curve template. I consider this absolutely essential.

Phil

 

[jordon412]

6) Can paint be erased or removed? i.e Can I remove some of the grass I placed?

6: no. Only paint over it. The default grid is also paint, but by default not listed; you will have to edit that asset if you want it.

Actually, you can use the texture/paint 'grid', <kuid:-25:1115>. It's basically the same texture/paint used in an unpainted section of a route.

 

[bcarter]

Thanks for the additional information. I took some pictures of the physical layout. I'll try to post that soon so you can see the comparison.

For better or worse I made a second version of the Trainz layout. Here is the original in wireframe view.

I modified the unseen inner track to make it one end of a folded dogbone.
http://images.n3vgames.com/trainzportal/mytrainz/772795/screenshots/50329/1000/GS&S-with-Dogbone.jpg
I think I like the way it flows better. Either version allows a train to continuous run on the outer loop while switching the upper level. The dogbone allows a train to pull forward out of the lower yard moving clockwise, traverse the dogbone unseen, exit the tunnel on the left near the parked locomotive, climb the grade and back into the upper yard. I can eliminate the inner tunnel on the right. Now I have to decide if I'm going to change the physical layout.

Phil,

I'll go through your "build" thread I'm sure to learn a great deal, like what a curve template is.

jordon412,

Thanks for the tip on the paint color.