strench707
TCR Content Creator
In trainz I understand that some signals can have stop and proceed aspects but how would one get one to work and how could one get the AI to stop and proceed?
Thanks
Davis
Thanks
Davis
Evoking a Stop And Proceed Signal
- Thread starter strench707
- Start date
Approach_Medium
Trainz Addict
I believe, but am not sure, that if you use a "permissive" signal AI will allow a train to stop, then proceed.
In the US, the permissive signals always have the number plate on the mast.
FW
strench707
TCR Content Creator
Yeah I understand the US signal policies but as we have discussed on the other thread the signals in trainz don't always conform. People sometimes make signals with numberplates that dont have the Stop and Proceed functionality.
So I was wondering how I could get a train in game to pass a SAP signal.
Davis
So I was wondering how I could get a train in game to pass a SAP signal.
Davis
Approach_Medium
Trainz Addict
I am using Norfolksouthern37 Safetran Clight 05 signals (with number plate) for intermediate signals. I believe Justin has coded these to be permissive, and should allow SAP, but at least on my route, in TS2010 trains will not proceed after the stop. They just sit there and wait until the train they are following is out of the block, and the signal changes to approach.
Now here's another oddity about Trainz, at least from 2010 back to 2009 (but probably 2006 as well):
The train approaches an approach signal, slows to about half track speed, then after it passes the signal, it accelerates again to reach track speed. It remains at track speed until it comes within some distance (not sure what that is, but it appears to be at least 2500 feet) of the next signal, then slows again.
If that signal is stop, then the train stops, but if it's approach, the train once again speeds up after it passes the signal.
This is definitely not prototypical, and from my experience, has been an issue with AI for a long time.
One additional bit of info: When you run AI, you must tell the train to go to some specific trackmark, industry, etc or else it will stop driving as soon as it comes to a red signal, and will not proceed further unless you issue a drive command again.
I'm going to do a little more reading and playing and see what I can come up with.
FW
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
i dont think the AI knows the difference between a stop and a stop and proceed.
Approach_Medium
Trainz Addict
AI is worthless. I ran some tests on my CSX River Line route.
I placed two locomotives; one approaching a permissive intermediate signal, and the second, about 1/2 mile past that same signal, in the next block. All blocks on my route are now signaled.
I placed a trackmark, and set both trains to drive to the same mark.
I used the default UP SD40's.
Test 1: Using Safetran Clight 05 signals:
The trailing loco approaches and stops at the signal. It does not proceed into the occupied block. Instead, it waits until the leading locomotive is out of that block, and the signal turns to approach.
The trailing train then passes the approach signal, and instead of proceeding at 1/2 track speed, it accelerates to full track speed.
The trailing loco remains at full track speed until it gets to about 1/2 mile of the next signal, which is now approach (the leading loco is through the block and into the next).
Again, the trailing loco passes the approach signal at reduced speed, then immediately accelerates to full track speed.
Test 2: Changed signals to USA 05
Same setup as Test 1, but this time I left the leading loco alone; did not give it instructions to move, so it is sitting about 1 mile past the signal.
The trailing loco approaches the red signal, and continues past the signal at reduced speed. It then accelerates to full track speed until it gets very close to the stopped locomotive. In real life, there would have been a crash!
The trailing loco does stop before hitting the lead loco, but it decelerates more like a truck than a locomotive.
Now, I give the lead locomotive the command to drive to the same trackmark the trailing loco is driving to.
After there is some distance between the two locos, the trailing loco starts moving again. At first, it runs at reduced speed, but as soon as the gap between locos is farther, the trailing loco speeds up to full track speed.
This performance is utterly useless. It would appear to me that AI is completely broken, with respect to permissive signals; except for those signals which Justin has taken so much time and effort to code so that they will work more appropriately with this fouled up game.
Justin, I give you all the credit and none to Auran for at least making signals that are usable with AI.
Somehow, I feel that I have been here before. I recall back in TS2009 I had exactly the same problem. The only signals that work respectably with AI are those by Norfolksouthern37. We may not get the SAP operation, but at least we don't have trainz running into each other all the time!
I am afraid that my (and others) requests to fix the signaling system in Trainz has fallen on deaf ears. Auran is not very interested in a few of us who are knowledgeable in railroad operation and will even notice that signals don't work prototypically. I think we can all see that in the release of TS2010 compared to TS2009. There are very few functional improvements; most of the improvement was spent on "eye candy" and making the game more "user friendly" for gamers rather than creating a more realistic railroad simulator.
All that said, I wouldn't give up my Trainz for anything. It helps to relax me when I'm stressed (as long as I don't have freakish things happen to me in the middle of a session in Surveyor
).
I like driving my trains myself, and rarely use AI. It's a challenge handling 4 or 5 trains, but it's about the only thing I can multitask
Once again, let me thank Justin for the work he has and continues to do on his content. I am ready, willing, and able to do any further testing you need.
FW
I placed two locomotives; one approaching a permissive intermediate signal, and the second, about 1/2 mile past that same signal, in the next block. All blocks on my route are now signaled.
I placed a trackmark, and set both trains to drive to the same mark.
I used the default UP SD40's.
Test 1: Using Safetran Clight 05 signals:
The trailing loco approaches and stops at the signal. It does not proceed into the occupied block. Instead, it waits until the leading locomotive is out of that block, and the signal turns to approach.
The trailing train then passes the approach signal, and instead of proceeding at 1/2 track speed, it accelerates to full track speed.
The trailing loco remains at full track speed until it gets to about 1/2 mile of the next signal, which is now approach (the leading loco is through the block and into the next).
Again, the trailing loco passes the approach signal at reduced speed, then immediately accelerates to full track speed.
Test 2: Changed signals to USA 05
Same setup as Test 1, but this time I left the leading loco alone; did not give it instructions to move, so it is sitting about 1 mile past the signal.
The trailing loco approaches the red signal, and continues past the signal at reduced speed. It then accelerates to full track speed until it gets very close to the stopped locomotive. In real life, there would have been a crash!
The trailing loco does stop before hitting the lead loco, but it decelerates more like a truck than a locomotive.
Now, I give the lead locomotive the command to drive to the same trackmark the trailing loco is driving to.
After there is some distance between the two locos, the trailing loco starts moving again. At first, it runs at reduced speed, but as soon as the gap between locos is farther, the trailing loco speeds up to full track speed.
This performance is utterly useless. It would appear to me that AI is completely broken, with respect to permissive signals; except for those signals which Justin has taken so much time and effort to code so that they will work more appropriately with this fouled up game.
Justin, I give you all the credit and none to Auran for at least making signals that are usable with AI.
Somehow, I feel that I have been here before. I recall back in TS2009 I had exactly the same problem. The only signals that work respectably with AI are those by Norfolksouthern37. We may not get the SAP operation, but at least we don't have trainz running into each other all the time!
I am afraid that my (and others) requests to fix the signaling system in Trainz has fallen on deaf ears. Auran is not very interested in a few of us who are knowledgeable in railroad operation and will even notice that signals don't work prototypically. I think we can all see that in the release of TS2010 compared to TS2009. There are very few functional improvements; most of the improvement was spent on "eye candy" and making the game more "user friendly" for gamers rather than creating a more realistic railroad simulator.
All that said, I wouldn't give up my Trainz for anything. It helps to relax me when I'm stressed (as long as I don't have freakish things happen to me in the middle of a session in Surveyor
).I like driving my trains myself, and rarely use AI. It's a challenge handling 4 or 5 trains, but it's about the only thing I can multitask
Once again, let me thank Justin for the work he has and continues to do on his content. I am ready, willing, and able to do any further testing you need.
FW
Approach_Medium
Trainz Addict
Yes, but I think Auran is more concerned about what the signals look like than that they are prototypical in operation.
As for the trees; I'm not using any Speedtrees. The 2009 Treez pack works better for me.
FW
strench707
TCR Content Creator
Yes I too appreciate signals and it frustrates me that so many people don't. I still don't understand why Auran never focuses on any operational aspects of their simulator.
I would like to thank Justin as well and his new and improved signals make it so AI works now?
Awesome,
Davis
I would like to thank Justin as well and his new and improved signals make it so AI works now?
Awesome,
Davis