Editing Trains

J

jeffy88

Member
Hello all!
I have a question regarding Trainz 22. I have over 1,000 hours on Trainz 19. But Im noticing since switching over to 22 after I found out some newer routes would only work on 22 im finding it to have some issues or things changed im not liking compared to 19. But then again maybe there is something im missing and thats what I come to find out!?
So the question today is! Is there a way to still edit Trains and add or take away from consists or create new one all within the driver session? Cause im not seeing the option anymore from the drop downs all I see options for is to go back into Surveyor mode! Which if thats the only way to do it thats fine I dont mind that. But im finding that if I go into surveyor mode on a Save file from a driver session and mess with it and then load back into driver it will no longer save........ so i just lost all of that progress from that loaded save after messing with it from surveyor mode and then im back to square on like I never even loaded the save and played. I have tried this with multiple different routes and same thing. When I go to quit if I have indeed opened surveyor mode on a save file at the end when I go to quit the session I still get the pop up asking if I want to save or just quit without and I tell it I want to save. It then pops up the save box as normal. And then takes me to the loading screen to send me back to the main menus. But then when I get back to that routes Session screen no new save file is present just the previous files I had and the one I loaded from of course but its back to where I was before doing anything. So is this just how Trainz 22 is and theres nothing I can do about it? Any help is appreciated!
 
jeffy88 said:
Any help is appreciated!
Click to expand...

TRS19PE, Trainz Plus and TRS22 all have a UDS Interface (Unified Driver Surveyor) that allows you to switch seamlessly between Driver Mode and Surveyor Mode in both directions, which you seem to be doing. But some important terms and conditions do apply. Those T&Cs do require care when saving your edits.

I use this feature a great deal and I find it best to save my edits in Surveyor before switching back to Driver but I would recommend that you read the following Wiki Page first.

How_to_Use_the_UDS_Interface

Be aware that saving the session will replace your original session with the edited one - which is fine if that is what you want to do. There are some techniques described in the document that can help avoid this.
 
pware said:
TRS19PE, Trainz Plus and TRS22 all have a UDS Interface (Unified Driver Surveyor) that allows you to switch seamlessly between Driver Mode and Surveyor Mode in both directions, which you seem to be doing. But some important terms and conditions do apply. Those T&Cs do require care when saving your edits.

I use this feature a great deal and I find it best to save my edits in Surveyor before switching back to Driver but I would recommend that you read the following Wiki Page first.

How_to_Use_the_UDS_Interface

Be aware that saving the session will replace your original session with the edited one - which is fine if that is what you want to do. There are some techniques described in the document that can help avoid this.
Click to expand...
I do save my edits before switching back. But when I do go back to driver it wont save. As I said im doing this with a save file from a previous driver session on a route. But no matter what I do if i go to surveyor on a driver mode save file to edit anything. i will save and return to driver mode to continue my gameplay where I was before I wanted to add a new train or something. Then when i go to save i still get all the normal windows but then when I go back to the menu where the route selection is where the save files would be there is not a current save file. just the previous one I loaded and did everything in. my progress no matter how I do it doesnt save. and its very frustrating cause I loved Trainz 19 where you could just edit trains add them go on about your day and the game would still save all that even if I was on a Save file!
 
I am finding it a bit difficult to follow your logic.

A few points that you may or may not already know:-
  • A "saved driver game" is one you have saved while in Driver Mode. You cannot load a driver game directly into Surveyor. You can only load it into Driver and, once there, you can then use the menu to switch to Surveyor (either Classic or S2.0 - depending on your version of Trainz) to do any editing.
  • Trains and rolling stock that you add SHOULD be placed into a Session Layer, not into a Route Layer.
  • When you save any edits while in Surveyor you will be given saving choices that will depend on what you have edited - the Route, or the Session or both.
See the Wiki pages at:-
Saving_an_Existing_Route
Saving_an_Existing_Route_and_Session
Saving_an_Edited_Session_Only
Saving_a_Route_and_Session_Using_the_UDS

for detailed explanations of these choices.
 
pware said:
I am finding it a bit difficult to follow your logic.

A few points that you may or may not already know:-
  • A "saved driver game" is one you have saved while in Driver Mode. You cannot load a driver game directly into Surveyor. You can only load it into Driver and, once there, you can then use the menu to switch to Surveyor (either Classic or S2.0 - depending on your version of Trainz) to do any editing.
  • Trains and rolling stock that you add SHOULD be placed into a Session Layer, not into a Route Layer.
  • When you save any edits while in Surveyor you will be given saving choices that will depend on what you have edited - the Route, or the Session or both.
See the Wiki pages at:-
Saving_an_Existing_Route
Saving_an_Existing_Route_and_Session
Saving_an_Edited_Session_Only
Saving_a_Route_and_Session_Using_the_UDS

for detailed explanations of these choices.
Click to expand...
ok well see I dont get those options when saving after going into surveyor mode from a save file from a driver session! If I open a driver session save file from a route and start driving trains. I will usually make most of the trains go through a portal and never return pretending that they went to another yard/ connection etc. and then when the yards on the route or the industries on the route start getting empty I like to go to edit trains and add new ones! sometimes I used edit trains to load railcars for industries that dont have an option for a loading track to do it automatically! and when I have been driving trains from a save file of a driver session and go to surveyor mode to edit the trains (since thats apparently the only way to do it on Trainz 22 now!) it wont let me save the game once I go back to driver mode. It will give me the save prompt windows as normal at looks like it saves but then when I go back to the sessions screen for the route there is no new save file that will show. The only way I have gotten driver sessions to save is by not even editing it in surveyor mode from a driver session save file? I apologize if you dont understand what im trying to explain I feel like im explaining it the best I can! and my version of trainz is Trainz 22 PE Version! so yes I do also have access to Surveyor 2.0 but I choose to still use the classic format.
 
TIrainz terminology isn't very clear sometimes. There are basically three types of files:

1) The route file that has the terrain, landscaping and tracks.

2) The session file that is intended to include the locomotives and railcars at the start of the session as well as what they are programmed to do. This is the only kind of session file that can be edited.

If you aren't careful in surveyor, you can make changes in a session file that should belong in the route file.

3) A driver session in progress that saves what is happening at that instant of driving a session. You can't edit this type of file.

There is some confusion initially about the difference between 2 and 3.

Also note that if you use driver on a session then use UDS to switch to surveyor to make some changes, and save them (while in surveyor) ... it will update the session file to where the trains are at that moment, completely changing the original starting conditions of the session.

There are a lot more details so what I've written is rather crude or basic, but I hope it helps.
 
OddRails said:
TIrainz terminology isn't very clear sometimes. There are basically three types of files:

1) The route file that has the terrain, landscaping and tracks.

2) The session file that is intended to include the locomotives and railcars at the start of the session as well as what they are programmed to do. This is the only kind of session file that can be edited.

If you aren't careful in surveyor, you can make changes in a session file that should belong in the route file.

3) A driver session in progress that saves what is happening at that instant of driving a session. You can't edit this type of file.

There is some confusion initially about the difference between 2 and 3.

Also note that if you use driver on a session then use UDS to switch to surveyor to make some changes, and save them (while in surveyor) ... it will update the session file to where the trains are at that moment, completely changing the original starting conditions of the session.

There are a lot more details so what I've written is rather crude or basic, but I hope it helps.
Click to expand...
So basically what you are saying is there is no way to edit trains anymore if im in a driver session and what to add more trains? Cause if im playing on a route driver save file then go into surveyor mode to edit trains and then save and go back to driver it wont save because of it being a driver session save file? I just wish they would have never done away with the ability to edit trains while in a driver session like Trainz 19 had. Cause I could always edit trains on a driver session save file and it would still save my progress after editing trains....
 
You are still not recognizing the third type of file.

Trainz has always let you start driving a session and then if you want to save the driving you have done, save it and shut down Trainz to do something else. Then later reload Trainz and reload the saved driving progress file into driver, to pick up where you left off. You cannot load this type of file into surveyor, it can only be loaded into driver. I rarely ever save this type of file.

With UDS you can switch between driving and editing most any time. Perhaps even with that third type of file, but I've never tried it.

You can always edit a normal session file with UDS.

You need to pause (p) the driving session, switch to surveyor, make your changes and go back to driver, unpause the session and continue on.

But if you save your changes while in surveyor, it will overwrite the original starting conditions of the file.
 
OddRails said:
With UDS you can switch between driving and editing most any time. Perhaps even with that third type of file, but I've never tried it.
Click to expand...
Yes, the UDS will allow you to edit a saved driver game (the "third type of file") after you have first loaded it into Driver. I do this all the time. The "tricky" part is to remember that when you edit and save after switching into Surveyor that your save can easily overwrite your original starting session which you may not want to do - hence the many saving options you are given.
jeffy88 said:
sometimes I used edit trains to load railcars for industries that dont have an option for a loading track to do it automatically!
Click to expand...
In that situation you can use a Driver Command, InstantLoad, to automatically load an entire consist with products without having to leave Driver mode. You can add this manually to the driver command bar of a consist (which must have a loco attached) while in Driver mode.
jeffy88 said:
(since thats apparently the only way to do it on Trainz 22 now!)
Click to expand...
That has always been the case. Trainz has never allowed you to edit the trains or industries or anything else while in Driver mode. Before the arrival of the UDS feature (it first appeared in TRS19PE) you always had to drop out of Driver back into Surveyor and lose your current state of play.

jeffy88 said:
It will give me the save prompt windows as normal at looks like it saves but then when I go back to the sessions screen for the route there is no new save file that will show.
Click to expand...
In all my years of using the UDS I have never had that experience. If you are saving the edited driver game as a session from Surveyor it will always appear in the list of available sessions to be loaded for that route. The exception, as @OddRails points out, is copy protected sessions - perhaps the name of the route and session may help clear that up but if possible give the kuids of the route and session.

Are you giving the saved driver session a new name? - in which case it will appear as a new session in the View Sessions list - or are you using the original (previous) name? - in which case it will replace the previous session file name in the View Sessions list.

jeffy88 said:
my version of trainz is Trainz 22 PE Version! so yes I do also have access to Surveyor 2.0 but I choose to still use the classic format.
Click to expand...
That is not a problem. Classic or S2.0 the process is exactly the same.
 
I believe you can save a running session by changing the name of the save. Thus, the original session will not be over written.
 
jeffy88 said:
I just wish they would have never done away with the ability to edit trains while in a driver session like Trainz 19 had. Cause I could always edit trains on a driver session save file and it would still save my progress after editing trains....
Click to expand...
Nothing has changed. The ability to edit trains from a running session (after switching to Surveyor) has not been removed. It all works in TRS22 exactly like it did in TRS19PE.

I just do not understand what you are doing that makes it seem to be different.
  1. Load a session and Route into Driver and drive a train or let the AI drive it, depending on the session you have loaded, for a short while.
  2. Press the P key to Pause the session.
  3. From the top menu open Tools and select Edit in ... (one of Surveyor Classic or Surveyor 2.0)
  4. Add a wagon or two to the consist.
  5. From the top menu open System and select Save then click the option Create a new session. Enter a name for your new session. Click the Tick.
  6. From the top menu open Tools and select Drive Session
  7. Press the P key to Unpause.
The session should now resume.
  1. From the top menu open System and select Exit Driver. If the save option comes up again then select Don't Save (you have already saved it)
  2. Back in the load screen for your originally selected route and session you will (being positive here!) see a new session using the name you entered in step 5 above.
  3. Select the new session and click the Drive Session button.
 
pware said:
Yes, the UDS will allow you to edit a saved driver game (the "third type of file") after you have first loaded it into Driver. I do this all the time. The "tricky" part is to remember that when you edit and save after switching into Surveyor that your save can easily overwrite your original starting session which you may not want to do - hence the many saving options you are given.

In that situation you can use a Driver Command, InstantLoad, to automatically load an entire consist with products without having to leave Driver mode. You can add this manually to the driver command bar of a consist (which must have a loco attached) while in Driver mode.

That has always been the case. Trainz has never allowed you to edit the trains or industries or anything else while in Driver mode. Before the arrival of the UDS feature (it first appeared in TRS19PE) you always had to drop out of Driver back into Surveyor and lose your current state of play.


In all my years of using the UDS I have never had that experience. If you are saving the edited driver game as a session from Surveyor it will always appear in the list of available sessions to be loaded for that route. The exception, as @OddRails points out, is copy protected sessions - perhaps the name of the route and session may help clear that up but if possible give the kuids of the route and session.

Are you giving the saved driver session a new name? - in which case it will appear as a new session in the View Sessions list - or are you using the original (previous) name? - in which case it will replace the previous session file name in the View Sessions list.


That is not a problem. Classic or S2.0 the process is exactly the same.
Click to expand...
as I said before in Trainz 19 i did not have the PE edition of that title. But I do now have the PE edition of 22. But in 19 if i was in a driver session or a saved driver session i could edit the trains from the driver session. I could take away cars add car/ engines etc. make all new consists and even load cars with loads. that was my main point in using it was for industries i had on the routes that didnt have a way of being loaded through the game with an industry track etc. but as I said I would do everything you have told me to do and still it wont save if I go into surveyor to edit just the trains to add loads to them. But you could be correct could have something to do with the route im on. the route i noticed it on was Coal country 2.0. but im not sure. I just miss the edit trains option from the drop down menu at the top that Trainz 19 had if you where in a driver session or a driver session save file.
 
jeffy88 said:
But in 19 if i was in a driver session or a saved driver session i could edit the trains from the driver session.
Click to expand...
I am sorry but I have to disagree. In all my years of using Trainz from the first edition back in 2002 up to the arrival of the UDS in TRS19PE that was not possible. You could edit a session and/or a route but not a "saved driver game". I am not sure that "Driver Games" even existed back then but it has been a long time and I could be wrong. If they did exist you certainly could not load them into Surveyor to edit them.

If while driving a session before TRS19PE you discovered an error in the route (e.g. a tree planted on the tracks) or the session (e.g. a wagon missing or incorrectly configured) then you had to exit the session back to the Surveyor/Driver Load Screens. Then load the session into Surveyor which reset everything back to what it was at the start of the session (which was a bit tough if you discovered the errors while 3 hrs into a very long session) Fix the problem and start the session again from the very beginning.
 
norfolksouthern37 said:
You can load the save state into driver and then immediately switch to edit mode.
Click to expand...
Under the UDS (TRS19PE and later) you can do that. The poster had TRS19 Standard (not PE) and had the belief that you could directly edit consists (e.g. add new cars) in Driver mode in that version.
 
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