East Broad Top Route

Indeed it is a shame unless one of us wins the lottery all we can do is pray that kovalchick will realize he is expecting to much from those that want to lease the line and operate it and Back down on his Restrictions such as he doesnt want the trackage extended at All Which is what many leasers wsnt to do, and i did read that,at least obe leaser wanted to start work on Restoring as far south as saltillo and North ro shirleysburg, and kovalchick Said no

this Post was really hard To Read without Punctuation and with one very long sentence Going On throughout

It'd be nice to know what Kovalchick wants to do, but he hasn't said anything publicly for a good while; so until then I wouldn't go putting words in his mouth. Also, the only "leaser" who has officially expressed interest in acquiring the line is the EBT Preservation Association, which is no better at keeping people informed.
 
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Please get on free Skype, and IM me

Although the mainline which is No2 track (and the No 1 track being the Orbisonia station track), both No1 #1 & 2 track go completely through the yard, on my route, even though the the No1 track is presently severed at the carshop (because it intefered with the car shops larger construction) I will not represent this abortion, on my route ! PERIOD !

I am modeling the era 1850 to 1900 only, not his raped, screwed up era 1950, nor the raped screwed up present era of the day trackage, where tracks were removed, and severed !

If the track was there at one time or another ... it will be replicated as it was in the wayback dayz !

I like trolleys ... That is why the modern Trolley facility will remain in place on my route !

Also if anyone resents that the trolley barns and what trackage I chose to represent, as NOT to being included (and with the 1890's trackage) I will gladly "PULL" the route from release !

This is my route ... if you object to any of my revisions ... you will get NOTHING !

No if, and's, or butts !

I have spent many a hard long hours reseaching this route ... and I will not be told which abortion track has been replacing the original trackage !


You know, I went through this entire post and found it quite interesting, until I got to this post. There is no reason for someone to be so damn rude when someone is pointing out a minor criticism. I will not be downloading your "abortion" route and quite frankly if you are getting so angry about polite constructive criticism, you should probably quit posting pics of your stuff or making anything for release at all. I remember when you used to be a pretty cool guy, who was level headed and helpful. Now you are just grumpy, and post about things that you know nothing about (such as claiming that you need a college education to be an engineer which is false).

Sorry if I sound angry, because I really am not angry. I am just annoyed that someone would be so abusive and mean when someone just pointed out some nice polite criticism, and provided info on the prototype.
 
I can be as rude as I want ... People were telling me that Google Earth images were wrong, that official track maps were wrong, and they were demanding that I was NOT make my route the way I wanted it, that the trolley barns were demanded NOT to be included.

I finally got fed up with all the teenagers and 20 y/o's demanding things ... and you will get the route the way I want it delivered ... because I have studied the route extensively, and intend on releasing it my way ... and if you don't like the way I designed the route ... you are always free to change it back to your likings.

I really don't care what you think, or what you don't like ... I will do it as accurately a possible.

I don't need no young college under grad, uneducated, whippersnappers, with inflated egos, making demands on me, and how I do my route.
 
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Yeah, well I don't need no uneducated old timer insulting me. Just because you are older than me doesn't mean that you are more intelligent, or better than me, and it definitely doesn't mean you can talk down to and deride me.

All that happened is someone pointed out that you moved a building that was an original building, rather than getting a version that is the reduced size that you were going for, AKA, it was inaccurate. Also, aren't the trolley shops a modern thing? When you go about saying that you are making something the most accurate way possible, then shift stuff around unprototypically so that you could have it like it was pre 1925, then keep stuff in that is more modern, you are asking for people to call you out on it. If you want to make a route based on a specific prototype, you make it based on the prototype, you don't pick and choose what parts you want then talk about how it is going to be extremely accurate.

Am I demanding that you change it? No, it is your route. I am just stating that you can't claim an accurate route in one breath, then talk about all of the things you are changing in another, then flip out like some spaz when someone calls you out on it. Heck, he wasn't even being rude about it. He was very polite, and just gave you constructive criticism. You flipped out like he was some kid straying too close to your overgrown yard and tacky pink flamingo decoration. (for the sake of argument, we will call him fluffy)

If you don't want people to provide you with historical information, tips, criticisms, and suggestions about how to make your "as accurate as possible" prototype route, then you should switch to freelancing, or at least stop claiming that you are making this the most accurate representation of the prototype ever. I am sorry if that is the way it is, but that is what the word "Accurate" means. Or at the very least, stop flipping out whenever someone lets you know that something that you are doing for your own personal reasons is incorrect. It would be like if I made the EBT, but decided that it was a 2 foot gauge, electrified line, but I told everyone that this is true to the prototype and yelled at anyone who told me that they use steam.

And finally, so a college undergrad is uneducated now? You obviously ain't got no fetchin' up.

tl:dr Stop being a crotchety old man and realize that when you throw around claims of total prototypical accuracy, then people are going to point things out that are wrong. They are trying to HELP you. Don't bite their head off. Just explain to them nicely that you are making the route the way you want to make it, and it might not be prototypically accurate, but it is the way you want to do it.
 
People on the FEBT were saying that the map was not real ... How would they even know what was real, or what wasn't real, as they weren't even born, and only their grandparents knew, what I now know, and they still claim my maps to be false, as they are young obstinant people, with no acceptance of what what was real, in the old days, and all they see is what they seen nowadays, a raped, torn up, dilapidated rail line, with missing and altered trackage, that probably won't ever come back into running shape, ever again.

If I want to include the Rockhill Trolley museum into a collage of all the era's 1870's to 2013 ... that I will do ... I really don't care what you like, or what you don't like !

Why did you come into this thread, unless it was to purposely disrespect me ... I guess that was your intetntion, to add your voice of disrespect to a thread ?

Why don't you save your bashing ... to someone else's thread ?

I don't come into your threads to bash you !
 
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I was coming to this thread in order to read a thread about an EBT project, and I saw you throwing a temper tantrum.

Also, people can have knowledge of things without being alive you know. I have lots of information about WWII, though I haven't lived through it. Whether or not your maps are indeed incorrect, there is no reason why you need to flip out on someone who had nothing to do with the FEBT, and had nothing to do with claiming your maps are wrong.

And no, I didn't come into this thread to disrespect you, you did that well enough by yourself. Also "..." is not a proper form of punctuation the way you used it.
 
You have the right to read the thread ... or not to read the thread.

I absolutely do not need any of your personal input and advice, whether it be about my personal attitude, about the East Broad Top RR, or about Trainz.

I don't come into your threads and try to impose personal findings about you, or make my attitude adjustment upon you.
 
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I know that you guys are having touble with Mount Union, so here is my idea:

The narrow gauge center of the dual gauge track is the center of the spline, the standard gauge center is offset.

Two copies of each standard gauge piece of equipment used are made - one offset left, the other offset right.

I think you could use triggers and automatic signalling to keep standard gauge trains off of narrow gauge track and vice versa.

At the standard gauge wye, a modified portal would be placed at the stub end. This would accept one car/engine at a time (length restraints) and would spit out the clone of it offset to the other side. This portal would be ever so slightly downhill from the rest of the wye so that a car could be uncoupled and rolled by gravity to the portal. You could also place a modified portal like above on either side of the switch that accepts cars/locos offset to the wrong side and spits them back out.

A modified portal that consumes trains of the wrong gauge and spits the train instantly back out the same as it was before (in the "same" direction, which would mean "reversed" direction in the portal's view and cars offset to the other side) could possibly be made, if needed.

A third centered standard gauge model could be made for regular standard gauge track, but I don't think that would not be necessary. With this you would need a portal to witch the train to a centered train.

It might involve the creation of rules which would not be fun.

Just a suggestion.

I don't know whether this would work, or whether it would be acceptable, but I will try to see would I can do to the portals...
If it worked at all, you would have one-lever switches and standard gauge to narrow gauge coupling at the expense of difficulty of creating it in the first place, lack of equipment available for use, and sacrifice of realism. It would really only work for sessions and not quick drive.
 
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"At the standard gauge wye, a modified portal would be placed at the stub end. This would accept one car/engine at a time (length restraints) and would spit out the clone of it offset to the other side. This portal would be ever so slightly downhill from the rest of the wye so that a car could be uncoupled and rolled by gravity to the portal. You could also place a modified portal like above on either side of the switch that accepts cars/locos offset to the wrong side and spits them back out."
sorry to be a correctosaurus but the wye in mount union was actually relatively strange in design the southern leg of the wye was narrow gauge while the northern leg was dual gauge (much like the setup in Rockhill Furnace)'
which makes me wonder how standard gauge loco's were turned to leave mount union
 
The EBT route will have @ a mile or so of PRR SG mainline, both to the east & west of Mt Union with two terminus portals (possibly iPortals).

There will be one or two mainline portals, so that SG trains from Huntingdon and Lewistown, can enter Mt Union from the PRR mainline ... and versa' visa' disappear into a portal when leaving on the PRR mainline towards Huntingdon, or to Lewistown

The same portals will emit SG trains from the PRR mainline, into the portion of the Mt Union yard interchange that was SG.

The dual gauge trackage from Mt Union only went just so far ... and the rest of the line to Orbisonia was 36" NG

A some point SG railcars were oftentimes lifted from their trucks, and NG wheelsets were swapped in place.

In the Mt Union yard, coal and timber was offloaded, or visa' versa' were reloaded onto NG, or SG railcars at an elevated wall, or an overhead transfer crane, or elevated coal dump.

The track will be NG track, superimposed on top of SG track, with one rail counceiled within the outer rail. (So the track will actually be two separate rail splines).

For quite alot of the Mount Union yard, some tracks never saw a SG railcar, as for the most part it was NG, on the upper level trackage.

For the most part the lower level was dual gauge.

I really don't see much profitability of swapping NG trucks under SG railcars, as most of the tracffic on the EBT was export coal and timber to the PRR ... and very little SG freight actually came into the EBT mainline ... and retrofitting those SG/NG railcars must have been very time consuming, and highly cost ineffective.

My preliminary choices of track are MP Track Wood v2 <KUID2:69871:2004:2> by Philskene ... and Via estrecha tm 1000 mm 2 mts <KUID:148561:38004> by Joxemai (which comes very close to 36" NG, and looks very 3D detailed).
 
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I really don't see much profitability of swapping NG trucks under SG railcars, as most of the tracffic on the EBT was export coal and timber to the PRR ... and very little SG freight actually came into the EBT mainline ... and retrofitting those SG/NG railcars must have been very time consuming, and highly cost ineffective.

actually compared to the normal operation of unloading and loading from standard gauge-ng car the use of swapping trucks of standard gauge cars was extremely time efficient and very cost effective, a process that would normally take days now turned into hours at a dramatic drop in cost. photographs show many SG cars moving over the line especially arround the time of when route 522 wa created durring this time thousands upon thousands of tank SG tank cars were ahuled which is why 99% of the hidden track can be found by tracing route 522 as it at many points replicates the curves and movement of the line
 
What was in all those: "thousands upon thousands of tank SG tank cars" ?
The heating source for homes and business's was coal and timber, hauled in from the EBT backwoods.
 
A some point SG railcars were oftentimes lifted from their trucks, and NG wheelsets were swapped in place.

I really don't see much profitability of swapping NG trucks under SG railcars, as most of the tracffic on the EBT was export coal and timber to the PRR ... and very little SG freight actually came into the EBT mainline ... and retrofitting those SG/NG railcars must have been very time consuming, and highly cost ineffective.

Right in Mt. Union yard and the EBT was famous for it.

It only took about 30 minutes.

Look here for more info, pics and SG car numbers that ran on the EBT http://www.totalracing.com/ebt/stdgauge.htm

And for an even faster method that was used in the 1800s by other railroads the Ramsey Transfer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsey_Car_Transfer_Apparatus
 
What was in all those: "thousands upon thousands of tank SG tank cars" ?

what was in these SGtank cars (while thousands upon thousands may be a dramatization) was gallons of tar used for the construction of route 522 ...the east broad top in the late teens-early 20's realized that swapping trucks was more efficient when unloading liquid freight such as tar and gasoline it dramatically cut down the amount of time needed to move a train north-south to a mear couple of hours in mount union yard, also it cut back on the amount the EBT would have to pay their employees as it when from a few dozen workers- less than 10
1. 1 crane operater
2. 1 crane spotter
3. 2 people to link the chains
4. 2 people to swap trucks
5. 1 train crew of two to move each car.
 
I hardly think that tar & gasoline was profitable to swap out bogeys, just to get a load, 6 whole miles, to Rockhill, where it would have to be off loaded, and mixed with pea gravel, and hauled to the route 522 road construction site via trucks. I seriously doubt that they had multiple asphalt mixing facilties all along the line, to make road making materials, offloaded from tankcars.

In the age of the construction of highways ... tanker trucks, and dumptrucks, were used ... and I seriously doubt that even one gasoline station had a tankcar rail spur.

I would imagine that the bogey swapping was a shortlived operation, long abandoned by the 30' and 40's
 
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Originally Posted by bigboy4014

which makes me wonder how standard gauge loco's were turned to leave mount union

I think there were actually two wyes, one for narrow gauge and one for standard gauge. There used to be a turntable.

Arial Views -> http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Tour/muwye.html

Detailed Map -> http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Tour/mtunion.html

Page of Wyes -> http://www.spikesys.com/Bin/EBT/Maps/mucars.gif
 
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