DVD+RW Drive/Trainz fail?

[mezzoprezzo]

My version of Trainz, TRS2004 build 2370, requires the play disk to be in the drive for Trainz to load.

It isn’t working. The drawer opens and closes OK but when I launch Trainz I get a Windows Vista message saying, “Cannot locate the CD-ROM. Please insert the correct CD-ROM, select OK and restart application”.

Trying to look at the DVD files via the “Computer” box simply ejects the disc and asks me to insert one. At the same time the top dialog box displays a green bar which eventually fills, but does nothing.

I’ve tried other disks, CD and DVD (music and image files), which either don’t work at all or just intermittently and won’t read all of the files.

I’ve run some diagnostics from the Microsoft site and, although it’s not confirmed with any Windows alert, it seems as if the drive hardware might be faulty. All of the software tests and drivers passed OK.

The main suspect, so far concluded by me, is dirt in the drive. The PC is three and a half years old, has never been opened or cleaned internally and in that time we have had some building work done and new carpeting laid, both of which created a lot of airborne dust.

What seems odd is that the system is not reporting the drive as faulty. It just seems to think that there is no DVD disc in the drive, even though one has been placed in the tray and inserted.

I’ve run a full system scan on the off chance that it might be a “nasty”. Nothing found.

Given my limited technical capability I’ve thought through a few options, in “damage limitation” priority order, which have raised some questions.

1. Should I try a DVD cleaner; one of those disks that you can put in the drive to “scrub” things clean. It seems a sensible first option, but do they work?
   
3. Would an external DVD drive plugged into a spare USB socket work with the old, probably broken, drive still in place? Buying one of those could be cheaper than getting an engineer who would probably want to charge more than the price of a new drive just to open the case.
   
5. Should I disconnect from the mains power supply, open the box and carefully with appropriate earth wristband and try cleaning the laser lens in the drive with isopropanol or rubbing alcohol? I’ve seen it done on various YouTube uploads and it looks well within my capabilities, but are there risks here?

Trainz has only been unavailable for one day and I’ve already got severe withdrawal symptoms!

Any advice or suggestions would be welcome.

Cheers
Casper

 

[Euphod]

Given my limited technical capability I’ve thought through a few options, in “damage limitation” priority order, which have raised some questions.

1. Should I try a DVD cleaner; one of those disks that you can put in the drive to “scrub” things clean. It seems a sensible first option, but do they work?
2. Would an external DVD drive plugged into a spare USB socket work with the old, probably broken, drive still in place? Buying one of those could be cheaper than getting an engineer who would probably want to charge more than the price of a new drive just to open the case.
3. Should I disconnect from the mains power supply, open the box and carefully with appropriate earth wristband and try cleaning the laser lens in the drive with isopropanol or rubbing alcohol? I’ve seen it done on various YouTube uploads and it looks well within my capabilities, but are there risks here?

No, save your money for the new disc drive.

Yes, it would work, but perhaps at a lesser speed.

Yes, it's worth a shot, and you are unlikely to do any real harm.

Understand that this happens even to brand new drives. When it happens to me, I simply close the drive and then try to explore it while it is empty. Usually it recognizes the disk the next time I insert it. Seeing as how you've had to play the disc from the drive for so long, your drive could be well and truly faulty though.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Alot of times when a drive won't play a DVD is, when the drive is only a CD drive, and can not read DVD's ... but I am sure that this is not your case.

 

[mezzoprezzo]

@Euphod.
Thanks for the advice. I’ll do a bit more research and see if any more ideas come in before getting the screwdriver out. As I’ve probably said before, I have an uncanny knack of making things worse!

I was interested regarding your comment about saving my money on the disk cleaner. I remember old tape cleaners being criticised for wearing out the tape heads. I guess I was hoping that the technology had moved on and disc cleaners for laser lenses might have been less damaging and more effective. I wonder if anyone has had success with them?

Alot of times when a drive won't play a DVD is, when the drive is only a CD drive, and can not read DVD's ... but I am sure that this is not your case.

No, its definitely the right sort of drive. I use it to burn full system backups. If it’s any help to diagnosing the problem it’s an Optiarc DVD-RW AD-7200S ATA device. Driver version 6.0.6002.18005


I’ve just tried uninstalling the drive via Device manager (I assume the Microsoft diagnostics .exe would have already done this, but I tried it anyway). Vista re-installed it when I did a PC restart, but the problem remains with all of the same symptoms.

 

[Deano5]

Are you sure the disks are spinning? For what they cost to replace these days it's less hassle to pop down the shop and buy a new one. A cheap one can be bagged for a fiver. The one in my new computer is an LG whistles and bells thingy that cost a hefty £14. :wave:

 

[Muliebuck]

I'd examine extremely closely, the surface of the DVD itself, it may have suffered damage (its surprisingly easy how they can get a tiny, almost microscopic scratch) that renders them inoperable, but more inclined to believe the DVD drive itself has 'malfunctioned' and should be replaced. Have you tried the DVD on another PC, etc? see it it 'works' through there?

 

[itareus]

Casper,

I agree with Euphod's comments, just to add:

If you are prepared to go as far as opening the box and cleaning the drive then I would suggest you just replace the thing instead (as Deano5 has suggested). Believe it or not that would probably be easier than trying to clean the existing drive - a quick Google search should get you some advice on how to go about it.

I would also suggest you consider getting a Trainz version that does not require the disc to be in the drive (maybe you can still pick up 2004 copies that don't ?)

But hurry up - we will be missing your screenshots! .

Cheers

Chris

 

[mezzoprezzo]

Thanks for your help so far guys!

@Dean05
The disc is spinning, but it sounds like it is doing it intermittently. Just loaded a music DVD into the rogue drive. Media player fired up and played some music but it was jumpy.

On second try it failed to play anything. The drive was revving up and decelerating constantly for a few seconds as if it was trying to read the disk. It then stops after a few tries.

Third go, media player fired up, music played but track was jumping.

£14 seems cheap for a new replacement. Is it a genuine LG? I’d have expected to pay £30-40 for a decent high speed RW unit. I’m thinking that the best option.

@Muliebuck
There are a very few extremely tiny scratches, but no major marks and no worse than any of my other normal disks which are all boxed or jewel cased and work fine.

Good idea regarding checking out the DVD on another PC. I don’t have one at home, but I’ll see if I can try a neighbour’s. If not it’ll be down to the local library on Monday.

What I have done is to try the Trainz disc in a standalone TV type DVD player. I can read the folder list (not that I would know if it is complete or not) and can view image files in the Flash folder.

I also tried the music CD which was jumpy on the PC and that plays perfectly through the TV, all of which seems to be pointing to a dirty, faulty or broken DVD-RW drive.

@itareus
Chris, I may be wrong, but I don't think the '04 Trainz sold in the UK was anything other than a "You can only play with the disc in" option.

It would be nice to be able to run Trainz "disk free", but even if I were able to get a suitable copy I would live in mortal fear of installing it and losing years of hard and absorbing work.

My file management skills are about as well honed as brain surgery. I've managed to admirably fail at getting my Gmax stuff into Trainz and lost half of my assets (thankfully recovered) when I tried to merge several thousand files which had been separately stored after installing Trainz through a non-Administrator account (Vista!).

For now I think I'll concentrate on establishing beyond all doubt that it is the drive rather than the disk. I can then get that fixed or replaced and hope the disk will hold out for a bit longer with the existing software. The PC's getting a bit old, so when that is eventually replaced I'll consider alternatives.

With regard to screenshots, I've got a few tucked away which haven't been seen before but it is frustrating not being able to create anything new!

 

[lewisner]

Re the idea of cleaning the drive, I had a similar problem with my PS2. There was a good video on Youtube showing how to do it and I followed the instructions to the letter. An hour later my PS2 was converted into a novelty doorstop.
I'd say maybe have a go at cleaning it but do it on a weekday so that if the inevitable happens you can get yourself off to the nearest PC shop and buy a new one. As others have said they are ridiculously cheap now except for Blu Ray burners.

When I first read this thread I thought "Just Trainz! :'( " and the experience I had with TRS2006; the first disc developed a hairline crack, and when they grudgingly replaced under threat of bad publicity the replacement did the same. I binned both disc and packaging and resolved never to buy anything from them again. However the fact that the OP has tried other discs in the drive and it hasn't worked suggests the drive itself is toast.

BTW if it hasn't been cleaned for 3 years its a wonder his PC is working at all.

 

[Euphod]

Don't fret Casper, I have a brand new unregistered 2004 with your name on it if you need it. Free to good home, you pay shipping.

 

[mezzoprezzo]

~snip~ An hour later my PS2 was converted into a novelty doorstop. ~snip~

Point taken, and very well made!

I was thinking of buying an external USB connectable drive, but I've been put off at the suggestion that it might be slower than a built-in. The advantage would have been that I'd have no need to open the case to install it. I'd also have a spare unit available to any PC I might use or buy in the future.

How much slower are external DVD-RW drives?

 

[mezzoprezzo]

Don't fret Casper, I have a brand new unregistered 2004 with your name on it if you need it. Free to good home, you pay shipping.

Thanks for the thought and the offer Ed.

I'll give that due consideration as soon as I've dug myself out of the present hole!

 

[itareus]

Casper,

....all of which seems to be pointing to a dirty, faulty or broken DVD-RW drive.
....

I agree....

You are almost certainly going to have to replace the drive with an external one, or bite the bullet and fit a new internal drive - a cheap one should last for the rest of the "effective" life of your PC. Whatever you decide beware of spending lots of money repairing a 3.5 year old PC, especially if you employ "experts", their labour charges can be unreasonable, especially when balanced against the residual life of your PC.

....I would live in mortal fear of installing it and losing years of hard and absorbing work.

My file management skills are about as well honed as brain surgery. I've managed to admirably fail at getting my Gmax stuff into Trainz and lost half of my assets (thankfully recovered) when I tried to merge several thousand files which had been separately stored after installing Trainz through a non-Administrator account (Vista!).......

....The PC's getting a bit old, so when that is eventually replaced I'll consider alternatives........

I live near March in Cambridgeshire, if you are anywhere near me, i.e. easy transport wise, then I would be happy to help a fellow Trainzer. After 40 years of using computers they hold no fears for me. !!

Just following on from Euphods kind offer I have a boxed unregistered version of TC3 (S&C) going spare if you feel like a major upgrade !! .

Cheers

Chris

 

[JCitron]

Casper,

Do yourself a favor and buy a DVD drive. They're about $30.00 US today from many outlets including Staples!

It's not worth the effort farting around trying to clean the drive, or poking at it. At that price, you'll be off and running/driving in no time.

John

 

[Retro00064]

<snip>

@itareus
Chris, I may be wrong, but I don't think the '04 Trainz sold in the UK was anything other than a "You can only play with the disc in" option.

It would be nice to be able to run Trainz "disk free", but even if I were able to get a suitable copy I would live in mortal fear of installing it and losing years of hard and absorbing work.

My file management skills are about as well honed as brain surgery. I've managed to admirably fail at getting my Gmax stuff into Trainz and lost half of my assets (thankfully recovered) when I tried to merge several thousand files which had been separately stored after installing Trainz through a non-Administrator account (Vista!).

<snip>

Eh? The only difference between the standard and Just trains versions of TRS2004 is that the latter uses DRM which requires you to have the disk in the drive to play Trainz. With either version, you should be backing-up your Trainz installation to an external hard drive or similar external mass storage device (I have one, but don't back up very often like I should ). Your hard drive could fail tomorrow and you could lose all your hard work if you don't have it backed up!

Regarding the GMax thing, if all else fails then you could send your GMax files to me and I can export them for you. I posted a command for use in the command prompt on the TPR forums many months ago to do all the recovery out of the VirtualStore folder that might be easier to do than the manual copying and pasting method that I had posted in your thread. Your models look great and it would be a shame to never get them into Trainz.

Regards,

Zachary.

 

[shaneturner12]

Regarding the VirtualStore folder, see my blog on that one. I have instructions on how to find and retrieve files from there.

Shane

 

[mezzoprezzo]

Thanks for all of the additional advice guys!

Looks like a visit to PC World on Monday then.

My only outstanding question is the comparative speed between a built in and external DVD_RW. Are we talking a vast difference like twice as fast, four times faster or is it a relatively small percentage?

I guess that if it were to be used as a disk holder for running Trains the speed would probably be immaterial, but I also need it for full system backups which take several hours.

@itareus
Chris, thanks for your very kind offer on system support. We drive through March once per year en route to Fakenham, usually around mid Spring, to visit family. I hope to have the system working well before then, but will know who to contact if I’m still in trouble! We’re located in south west Hampshire so it’s a bit of a long haul for an earlier quick visit.

Thanks too for the kind offer regarding TC3 (S&C) upgrade. I thought I had to get the hang of TRS2006 first?:hehe:


@Retro00064
Hi Zachary.I do regular monthly (usually!) full system backups to DVD and have always assumed that I would be able to restore my Trainz files from that medium. It certainly seems to store, verify and burn them to disk OK (the Trainz files can be seen flashing up the screen as they are processed), although I’ve never tried, or had to do, a complete system rebuild into a new hard drive.

I guess it would be easier from a Trainz point of view to additionally quickly copy the relevant folders and files to an external hard drive or data stick on a regular basis.That needs to be a project for another time. My poor retired brain can only cope with a limited amount of system hassle; one problem at a time is usually one too many. Strangely, I can put in 14 hours of creativity with absolutely no effort at all, never run out of ideas or inspiration and still find time for more.

If I can solve the drive problem I’ll be well pleased and will simply get back to route building for a bit. Maybe I’ll then be able to psych myself up for another crack at the more technical stuff and the Gmax models.

Thanks for the offer though, and the complement.

Edit:
@shaneturner12
Thanks Shane. I had seen your blog. It seems to tie in with Retro's advice.

I'll take one step at a time though. You experts will just have to bear with me, but it's great to know that the knowledge, skill and patience is all there as and when it is required!

Cheers
Casper

 

[lewisner]

If you do look for an external drive this is a beautiful looking piece of kit http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-U..._Storage_CD_DVD_Drives_ET&hash=item4cfecdb68e

 

[Pladroid]

Casper it doesn't matter which drive you pick for trainz internal/external as it just reads the DRM bit and hands the loading back to the hard-drive. But it does matter for a writer/rewriter as this will be slow or seem to be slow, they do work well though with no problems the choice is whatever you can afford.

 

[mezzoprezzo]

@Pladroid

Thanks for that Paul.

I've found the full product specification of my existing drive on the Sony site. I've printed it and will take it to the dealer to ensure that I get an eqivalent.

Although an external USB drive would seem the easiest to install I'm pretty confident that I can open the case, fit an internal drive and connect the two ribbon cables. One thing on my side is that Vista does seem to do well at recognising and installing new devices at startup.

Hopefully it won't be too difficult to ensure that the correct and most up to date driver is installed. I'm guessing that my system will prompt me in the right direction to make that happen.