Down to the Basics pt1: Sense of Operation

[SantaFebuff]

When you download a route, why do you do it? Classify them, routes come in all shapes and sizes. Some are needless wonders, while other are truly stunning. One feature that I'm focusing in a 3-Thread topic, is making a layout more inactive and important to the player. This is the first Thread: Sense of Operation. I am trying to promote route building designed to engage new and old Trainz users to the game, which also goes with my newest creation project, the P&EI Shortline.

Sense of operation, is defined a reason to continue operation of trains, and gives you the feel of importance and really brings out Trainz's true colors. Having a large yard can give one enough sense for a long time, but only for so long. This can't be make by one baseboard. Making overly large routes aren't the answer either, unless you give a reason.

First, inactive industries offer less the player than customs with interactive capabilities. Simply put, a coal mine system with oil needs, and power give non-stop play for a true player.

Second, variety. Coal is a nice industry, but it isn't the only one. In real life, railroads collect coal, while others collect intermodal and grain cargo. Having reason to collect and drop them off is the third reason.

Third, reasoning. Why collect intermodal? Because people need their goods! Don't just put one industry section down, put the whole process in a realistic pattern. HAVING ONLY ONE INDUSTRY MEANS ONLY ONE TYPE OF GOOD IS USED, RESULTING IN OVERUSE. That refers to the second rule. Having a lot of industries makes for more and more playing, but making sure everything has a destination and reason to get there is just as important.

Forth, overwhelming. Having too many industries can lead to overwhelming thinking, leading to speeding, anger, and stress. We don't want that. Avoid that at all costs. A few good tips are to lowered the consumption rate on some industries, or rise the overall supply of fuel they start off with. This makes for allowing them to go a few miles per hour below the speed limit and enjoy themselves, then dashing at 100mph until they hit the curve.

Fifth, simple mixture too! While having interactive industries means engaging play, balance it with inactive industries too! Why? Well, if one gets really tired off having to go bad and forth between industries, having some inactive industries means the fun, without having too much action, or stress.

Sixth, and final, realism! Having rules like the Power Plant rule is nice, since it makes for more reasoning, which also goes for others that have such rules. It adds more of a purpose for operating. It might even make your route see more trains. Also, relieve some pressure, make some computer trains that follow a route (Non disruptive to the human player, of course!) and fill a few things on the waybill. Knowing help is there, also helps to calm stress and anxiety.

I hope this helps you discover a new route idea, and lead to the next route worth 1,000 words.

Cheers,
Joshua

 

[Dap]

Operations

I’d love to see your P&EI Shortline. Is it available on the DLS? If not, when?

 

[SantaFebuff]

Well, Dap, it'll be awhile. I haven't finished the trackage entirely yet. :wave:

Cheers,
Joshua

P.S. I'll try for some screen shots.

 

[Dap]

Well, since it is a work in progress, may I suggest that you include at least one yard with at least 7 -9 tracks for classification. Most routes do not have such, but every prototype railroad uses them, especially if it is from an earlier era. What era are you modleing?

David

 

[SantaFebuff]

Thank you for the suggestion. Perfect timing. I was continuing the mainline, and thinking of what to have next, right after the seaport and intermodal and container areas. What a perfect idea! I will have a 10 track yard for classification.

Cheers,
Joshua

P.S. Hump yard, perhaps? No hopes, but an idea. :Y:

 

[Vern]

Unfortunately I have to say I don't really share the OP's enthusiasm for interactive industries. I see Trainz as a means of recreating a section of real world route (in the same way as MSTS or Railworks), whether a favourite scenic line, reviving a long closed route or something a bit offbeat (maybe all three in one route!). Apart from maybe the passenger stations I have never really seen much point in spamming a route with industry that either has no basis in reality, or depending on the era in an age of block freight trains is unlikely to be rail served.

The last thing I want when concentrating on traversing a complex junction or descending a tricky mountain section is to start checking whether my industries are working properly. On most (prototype) routes rail served flows may travel hundreds of miles and any attempt to create a closed chain in a smaller space seems artificial. IMHO I think interactive industries are a hangover from the days when Trainz was still nodding towards the model railway rather than prototype simulator, or as a precursor to the long abandoned financial element (Boss Module).

If I want to play trains with industry, commodity flows etc. then I'll load up a strategy game such as RRT3 or Open TT. Trainz (to me) is first and foremost a driving simulator, with a powerful world editor.

To give purpose and longevity to routes I would much rather see...
1. Proper implementation of timetables, where you are judged and scored against your performance. Ideally this would be Zusi style reproducing the whole schedule for a particular period of the day, even 24 hours if you like. You can choose a particular run and at the end "jump" to the next available departure. Any delays would accumulate with late running maybe persisting much later into the day.
2. This should go hand in hand with a career mode. RS.com are looking at this for Railworks and the old Train Driver 3 programme had it. Your performance is scored and evaluated and a running record maintained. This could even be linked to the timetable mode in that at first only certain trains in the schedule are available for you to drive. You need to gain experience points or promotion to unlock the more prestigious runs.

 

[Dap]

Vern,

I fully agree with you about the interactive industries. As to “Sense of Operation”, this depends on what “operations” or type of “play” turn your crank, and what period of railroading you prefer. Personally, I prefer prototype operations from the golden era of steam - 1900 to 1945. This is an era where there was no intermodal - everything shipped by rail. Every industry shipped either direct or through the local freight depot. I love solving the logistics of railroad operations from that era. Much more variety and more problems to solve than today’s operations.

I also prefer real prototype operations as opposed to the very unprototypical Trainz way bill system. It is structured to compete against the clock so to speak, keeping industries supplied on a very short timeline. In the real world, most industries plan well in advance to make sure they have stock to continue operations and not have to rely on common carrier transportation for JustInTime operations. And the process is supplier driven, not consumer driven. The object in the real world is not to beat the clock, but to provide reliable transportation in an environment that promotes safety for employees.

To me, an engaging route does not have any drive through loops for any industry, unless it is a large power plant that accepts only unit trains. Furthermore, any inter-active industry will be a LARS system so there will be a delay from the time I drop off a car to the time it is loaded/unloaded. And the only industries that need to be interactive are the ones that deal with open cars - strictly for the visual animation.

I like switching cars and servicing industries. I use an automated database system that gives every car on the route a series of destinations - on screen. This makes classifying cars in the yard challenging and meaningful. No industry needs to be interactive because the car destination systems tells me where it needs to go. I can focus on the logistics of railroad operations and not whether the buyer at the pulp mill remembered to order wood chips from the saw mill.

David

PS: If I have to be judged/scored, I'd like it to be judged by the number of moves it takes to classify and deliver the freight, with penalties of course, for holding up thru traffic, hot shot freights and first class passenger trains.

 

[philskene]

Hi Vern --

Without in any way meaning to be abusive (and my apologies in advance if it might seem this way), yours could be considered as a very UK-centric view.

"Proper implementation of timetables, where you are judged and scored against your performance."

Here in Australia the Australian Rail Track Authority does have timetables for freight trains on its web site. However, from my sightings through the Adelaide Hills, if the train operators were "judged and scored against ... performance" they would all fail, absolutely and dismally. Most of us regard the ARTC timetable as more akin to a work of fiction.

"On most (prototype) routes rail served flows may travel hundreds of miles ... ."

Not necessary so. See here, for an example of recreating the type of route where it certainly didn't:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=44252&highlight=downtown

and here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?p=480081#post480081

In this particular case "I see Trainz as a means of recreating a section of real world route ... " - interactive industries are an essential element of operations on these types of routes.

And, hey, short line routes can be fun. Particularly if there is an interest in digging a few freight cars out from here and there, running them down the line, swapping them with other cars, ... .

"This should go hand in hand with a career mode ... ."

Hmm - I'm not sure if I agree with this either. In sessions like this one:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=41629&highlight=harbor

there just aint no prescribed right or wrong way of doing it, nor any type of timetable. There is, however, a task to be done and the challenge is to do it in the most efficient way.

Phil

 

[Dap]

. . .

In sessions like this one:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=41629&highlight=harbor

there just aint no prescribed right or wrong way of doing it, nor any type of timetable. There is, however, a task to be done and the challenge is to do it in the most efficient way.

Phil

Phil,

In the spirit of your post, this is in no way meant to be abusive. I have long admired your fantasy routes. I label them as such, because they have no basis in the real world, at least not the world of railroading I am familiar with. Your referenced session makes for a great fantasy, but it is in no way a simulation of real railroad operations. Maybe they do things differently down under, but here in Texas, any dispatcher that ran their railroad like this session would be out of a job after her first day.

That said, there is room for many types of routes. We all like different things. One of the great things about this hobby is the diversity of interests. I see nothing wrong with Vern being UK-centric. That is where he is from. I'm obvious US-centric with a bent towards period prototype operations. And you . . . fantasy-centric ? No harm in that. You would probably not enjoy one of my favorite sessions any more than I would enjoy one of yours.

Your statement "there just aint no prescribed right or wrong way of doing it' in regard to the Harbor Master session really applies to the design and composure of routes and sessions as well.

Keep designing those great fantasy routes!

David

 

[Tracker99]

One of the main reasons why I stopped being a one time real world model railroader and a former armchair RR modeler, was the unrealistic layouts and OPERATION that came within the confines of a smaller layout. Trainz offered me the opportunity to design, build, and execute a proto-typical model railroad.

I started with the following concepts:
1- I wanted a true linear railroad, no loops, or any type of spaghetti trackage.
2- A simulated Div Class 1 RR with a yard half way through the visible run that separated the south/north sub divisions.
3-For further interest, a interchange with a connecting railroad bringing in a needed commodity (in this case coal) that serviced a major online power plant as well as consists of coal terminating at stagging yards at each end of the visible run representing crew changes to their respective destinations.
4-Only one town in each sub div that would require switching for a local once during the full ops session.
5- Consists for almost 1/2 of the run through traffic stops at the yard, for interchange, etc.
6-Meets take place at the Yard, since the rest of the layout is single tracked. No AI trains at this point.
7-Amtrak service consists of just 3 trains at this point, but more is to come.

The Railroad is my 1st attempt at one with Trainz 09. The route is called the Southern Kansas Div. All trackage is down, and it's 1/5 complete with the scenery. Which is another whole story in itself. All I'll say at this time is that weathering, shading, etc is possible and looks great once the techniques are learned.

Operation is via train/switch list, and takes nearly a full week to complete.

Done correctly, or at least to my conception of semi-prototypical cyberspace operation, the SKD has surpassed all expectations, and has proven to be my personal answer to the years of frustration of being a model railroader.

I've "played" around with interactive industries and have elected not to use any, as they serve no purpose to enhance the operational aspects of the SKD. I also elected not use portals at this point as I'm so use to having and using stagging yards, which work perfectly in trainz. BTW, all 3 stagging yards are not visible during operations as long as one views his train at the normal views/heights I use.

While the SKD is a linear 35 board layout, it's not a straight line either, to add further scenic interest.

 

[Dap]

Tracker,

I like the way you have planned your railroad. I wonder how many of us there are that like the prototype route with prototype operations? I am working on modeling the Newton & Northwestern, a predecesor of the Ft Dodge, Des Moines & Southern. I have all 103 miles of mainline track and sidings laid and all towns and stations laid out with streets using maps from 1906. I am currently placing all the industries. There are 21 stations including a short branchline to service a coal mining community. Scenery is about 10% complete.

How many industries does the SKD serve?
How do you generate your switch lists?
How does your interchange work if you are not using portals? Have you considered using Portals with the Portal Timetable Rule? Gives you complete control over when which train is emitted onto the route.
Do you do any classification activities in your yard?

David

 

[Tracker99]

Tracker,

I like the way you have planned your railroad. I wonder how many of us there are that like the prototype route with prototype operations? I am working on modeling the Newton & Northwestern, a predecesor of the Ft Dodge, Des Moines & Southern. I have all 103 miles of mainline track and sidings laid and all towns and stations laid out with streets using maps from 1906. I am currently placing all the industries. There are 21 stations including a short branchline to service a coal mining community. Scenery is about 10% complete.

How many industries does the SKD serve?
How do you generate your switch lists?
How does your interchange work if you are not using portals? Have you considered using Portals with the Portal Timetable Rule? Gives you complete control over when which train is emitted onto the route.
Do you do any classification activities in your yard?

David

David,

The SKD runs from Augusta Kansas to Flynn Oklahoma, and both cities are represented as online staging yards set behind hills, so they're not seen. Mid point in the run is Hackney Kansas with the division yard, a massive power plant made from several plants that are kind of "kit bashed", and various structures and buildings. Hackney also has a large 3 track passenger station where 3 train meets take place. Just to the south of Hackney is the junction with the Northfork Southern that runs to Witchita Kansas. I actually found pictures of the NS operating in Kansas, so that's how that came to be. The north District ;Hackney to Augusta has Winfield as its only town with two industries. A large grainery and a Farmers Supply. The Southern Districts' only town is Red Rock Oklahoma with a large Barley industrial complex that is still being refined.

My time table/switch list is based on 5 operating session that vary from 1 to 2 hours each. Since I also act as dispatcher setting up the routing, each train takes quite a bit of time to run. I know that I can have Trainz do this, but half the fun of model railroading was the dispatcher role for me.

Each staging yard has a 6 freight tracks and 2 passenger tracks. This way I don't have to have that dreaded one in and then one out concept.

The creation of the time table is based on favorite types of trains. Some run through in each direction, some drop consists at Hackney for the NS, and all NS trains heading to either Augusta or Flynn have crew and engine power changes at Hackney.

I run just one local where the grain, box, etc. cars are dropped by a a through freight. Then two locals are run, one for each district. I thought about just one local for both towns, but the run means running through Hackney again to get to the other district, which just doesn't make sense, hence, a local for each district.

As a former model railroader, I used a car card/ waybill system for each car. With trainz and my present layout focus, it doesn't pay to go through all of that. Before the start of the OS, I pre-stage cars for each town & industry. All I really do is type out a list with each town and its industries, with drop/pickups, and number of cars for each move. The consist order is already setup for town and industry. With this system I don't have to pickup 3 drop 3. I can vary each number, as well as type of car if necessary.

As for interchange, I've already said that trains with consists either coming to or going to the NS Witchita Division, terminate or are created at Hackney yard, as NS power is not allowed on the SKD, and SKD power isn't allowed on the NS trackage. Trains are built, and the proper engine power are added, then dispatched as the time table lists. Trains coming from the NS are handled according to where the consist is going.

At some point I expect to use portals as a replacement to staging yards, which will make my life a lot easier. I'm still catching myself falling back into the real life model railroader syndrome.

I use the Hackney yard to breakup and create trains as needed. Motive power is 2 pairs of BN SW1500 engines.

The SKD also serves another purpose, and that's seeing just how far I can push my Toshiba middle of the road laptop. Default settings with a screen resolution of 1024x768 seems to do the trick. Augusta yard pushes my system past the point as it slows down to a crawl. Portals will solve that problem, and I expect to implement them sometime in the near future.

Strange at it might sound, I'm already thinking about the next model railroad effort which will hopefully push my learning curve to continued new heights.

Joel

 

[Vern]

Hi Vern --

Without in any way meaning to be abusive (and my apologies in advance if it might seem this way), yours could be considered as a very UK-centric view.

None taken at all Phil, the OP's intention was to open up a debate on operations in Trainz and will hopefully generate a considerable cross section of ideas.

It is true that for the most part the UK and indeed most of Europe follow strict timetabled operation, even for freights. If you're running 125 MPH passenger service which attract stringent performance penalties when 10 minutes or more late, then any attempt to run a 60 MPH freight train in between the "varnish" (these days more like vinyl!) needs to be on an accurately timed and validated schedule. Of course, the situation you describe in Australia happens here with freights turning up early or three hours late at which point the Train Running Controller (me..!) will start talking to the signallers and the freight companies about how to deal with the out of course traffic. In some cases this may result in the train going off in a yard or regulating location until a fresh schedule can be prepared.

However some good points and ideas being put forward so far. One thing this thread demonstrates is how versatile TRS can be as it can cater for all types of operation, whether you're primarily a route builder and point to point driver (like me) or a user who enjoys setting up industries and balancing traffic flow.

 

[Dap]

. . . As for interchange, I've already said that trains with consists either coming to or going to the NS Witchita Division, terminate or are created at Hackney yard, as NS power is not allowed on the SKD, and SKD power isn't allowed on the NS trackage. Trains are built, and the proper engine power are added, then dispatched as the time table lists. Trains coming from the NS are handled according to where the consist is going. . . .

Joel

Joel,

Witchita and Hutchinson are my old stomping grounds.

I'm trying to figure out how you do the interchange. Do you place the cars for pick-up on the interchange track in surveyor?

I use Maggs Re-rail portal along with pguy's Portal Timetable rule for interchanges. It will emit a string of cars at the time you want without an engine. They appear on the interchange track, that piece of track on which both railroads have joint rights. I then pick them up with my switcher. Dropping off cars is a bit of fun because you have to drop kick them into the interchange track (portal) or you will loose your engine. I find if I get up to a speed of 20mph pushing the string of cars, uncouple the engine and cut the throttle, the cars roll into the interchange track and I reverse and go back to the yard. This allows more than one interchange operation per session - like one in the morning and one in late afternoon.

One could also use AI to bring the foreign road train onto the route and do the drop-off and pick-up, but I have had problems with that in the past.

I think once you start to use portals, you will find there are many possibilities. Do you have any grade crossings with other railroads? This always makes for an interesting operations feature. There is a diamond crossing rule that takes care of the signaling. My road has 9 grade crossings with foreign roads, all of them with active cross traffic.

David

 

[Tracker99]

Joel,

Witchita and Hutchinson are my old stomping grounds.

I'm trying to figure out how you do the interchange. Do you place the cars for pick-up on the interchange track in surveyor?

I use Maggs Re-rail portal along with pguy's Portal Timetable rule for interchanges. It will emit a string of cars at the time you want without an engine. They appear on the interchange track, that piece of track on which both railroads have joint rights. I then pick them up with my switcher. Dropping off cars is a bit of fun because you have to drop kick them into the interchange track (portal) or you will loose your engine. I find if I get up to a speed of 20mph pushing the string of cars, uncouple the engine and cut the throttle, the cars roll into the interchange track and I reverse and go back to the yard. This allows more than one interchange operation per session - like one in the morning and one in late afternoon.

One could also use AI to bring the foreign road train onto the route and do the drop-off and pick-up, but I have had problems with that in the past.

I think once you start to use portals, you will find there are many possibilities. Do you have any grade crossings with other railroads? This always makes for an interesting operations feature. There is a diamond crossing rule that takes care of the signaling. My road has 9 grade crossings with foreign roads, all of them with active cross traffic.

David

Dave,

I think my terminology might be confusing the issues. For me, interchange is the interaction of transferring consists from one Railroad to another where neither Railroad has joint trackage rights. A junction is where one railroad enters and or leaves another railroad, so the two concepts are not the same, nor do they both have to be used at the same time to accomplish a given task.
To further confuse my concepts, I'm so new to the world of Trainz that nearly everything I do operationally is done as those I were operating a physical model railroad, rather then a virtual model railroad. Both has it's advantages, and both have their disadvantages.

Here's how I accomplish the interchange between the NS and the SKD. A 30 car coal train from Witchita Kansas to Augusta Kansas heads down to Hackney Kansas. The two lines intersect each other west of Hackney. There is a "Y" junction that would allow traffic to flow in any of the three directions. In this case the coal train is dispatched to Hackney yard. On the north led the NS engine power (both main and pushers) are removed from the the train and head to the engine service tracks to be ready for the next train(s) to Witchita. Once service is completed, the engines are moved to the NS engine ready tracks. BN engine power that has been previously assigned to this consist are moved to the head and pushers to the rear. The train is then dispatched as per the dispatchers instructions.

The Dispatcher is me. I release the train for it's assigned trip to Augusta Kansas via schedule. There is one through freight train that must move through the yard 1st.

The Hackney to Augusta coal drag then proceeds to Augusta at a assigned speed limit of 45 mph. Once at the Yard, the train is shunted to the incoming tracks and remains there for the rest of the full operating session as it's not needed for a return run.

One of the benefits of virtual model railroading is that one can have a unlimited number of engines and cars, so that once I make up a train, it's in my system until such time as I no longer need it, or want to change consists, engines, etc.

As I move through the OS and stop for the night, I just save the simulation and start from there the next time. When I'm ready to start a new OS I delete all the saved sessions. And if I make changes to the OS or any consists, trackage, etc, then I create a new session to start at.

 

[Tracker99]

A few other thoughts as to how I currently operate the SKD, and to why a complete OS takes 5 full days, and will eventually be expanded to require 7 OP sessions of 2 hours each. I've even thought about A B alternating OP weeks. This would require several more trains and more trackage, but who knows where the SKD will led me.

I mentioned in the previous post that not only does engines have to be moved to the engine service area, but they must be then moved to their respective assigned railroad engine ready tracks. All this takes time, and this time is factored into my OS. I'll run one train, then list on my master dispatcher sheet that the next assigned move is to become the yard engine master and move engines to where ever they need to be placed. This also includes adding power to trains. All this takes time, and this time is just as much "fun" for me as running Class I freights.

 

[Dap]

Dave, . . .
Here's how I accomplish the interchange between the NS and the SKD. A 30 car coal train from Witchita Kansas to Augusta Kansas heads down to Hackney Kansas. The two lines intersect each other west of Hackney. There is a "Y" junction that would allow traffic to flow in any of the three directions. In this case the coal train is dispatched to Hackney yard. On the north led the NS engine power (both main and pushers) are removed from the the train and head to the engine service tracks to be ready for the next train(s) to Witchita. Once service is completed, the engines are moved to the NS engine ready tracks. BN engine power that has been previously assigned to this consist are moved to the head and pushers to the rear. The train is then dispatched as per the dispatchers instructions.

Just trying to clear up your interchange operations. Please clarify if this is not correct. The leg of the Y where the NS drops the cars is joint trackage because both railroads have access to that stretch of track. This is the "interchange track".

So, do you also have a NS yard at Hackney? Do you have a hidden staging track that represents Witchita? As part of your operations do you also have to drive the NS train to Hackney and drop the cars at the interchange? And as Dispatcher, are you also dispatching the NS as well as your division of the BN?

The Dispatcher is me. I release the train for it's assigned trip to Augusta Kansas via schedule. There is one through freight train that must move through the yard 1st.

The Hackney to Augusta coal drag then proceeds to Augusta at a assigned speed limit of 45 mph. Once at the Yard, the train is shunted to the incoming tracks and remains there for the rest of the full operating session as it's not needed for a return run. . . . .

When does the coal get delivered to the power plant?

From your last post:

I mentioned in the previous post that not only does engines have to be moved to the engine service area, but they must be then moved to their respective assigned railroad engine ready tracks. All this takes time, and this time is factored into my OS. I'll run one train, then list on my master dispatcher sheet that the next assigned move is to become the yard engine master and move engines to where ever they need to be placed. This also includes adding power to trains. All this takes time, and this time is just as much "fun" for me as running Class I freights.

You should try to use AI to be your hostler, moving the engines. I am doing this as well as using AI to move my wayfreight from town to town. This allows me to multi-task. And if I am in the mood to be the hostler, I can dump the AI instructions and take over.

David

 

[Tracker99]

Just trying to clear up your interchange operations. Please clarify if this is not correct. The leg of the Y where the NS drops the cars is joint trackage because both railroads have access to that stretch of track. This is the "interchange track".

So, do you also have a NS yard at Hackney? Do you have a hidden staging track that represents Witchita? As part of your operations do you also have to drive the NS train to Hackney and drop the cars at the interchange? And as Dispatcher, are you also dispatching the NS as well as your division of the BN?



When does the coal get delivered to the power plant?

From your last post:

You should try to use AI to be your hostler, moving the engines. I am doing this as well as using AI to move my wayfreight from town to town. This allows me to multi-task. And if I am in the mood to be the hostler, I can dump the AI instructions and take over.

David

Dave,

The "Y" junction is technically the interchange of the 3 Railroads. All 3 roads do have joint trackage rights so that they can enter Hackney yard. There is no exclusive assigned NS yard trackage, rather there are north/south classification tracks, and a North/South through tracks.

As I said, this is my 1st trainz attempt at any kind of layout. I've made a ton of mistakes. One of the biggest is not giving Hackney Yard more thought. It needs to be much longer by a another board. I also need to have more classification tracks with designations for the NS, etc. Since the scenery is almost complete at Hackney, it's not a cut a dry thing just to add more trackage. I also don't think it's possible to add another board between to existing boards. Since I have a yard right next to interchange Y, I thought that allowing the physical interchange of consists should happen at the Yard, not on a interchange track which is way to short for the size of trains that I run.

I see your point about the AI handling the engine masters functions, but 1st I'll have to learn how to control the AIs. It's on my list of a million things to still learn. Once I do learn how to use the AIs, running the locals is an outstanding concept. One that I will use for sure.

Wichita is a stagging yard equal in board length to both Augusta and Flynn yards. As for delivering the coal consists to the power plants at Augusta and Flynn, it is assumed to happen off line. To accomplish this online, I
would have to continue the SKD to both Augusta and Flynn, which is something I haven't considered at this point. When I get to the point of portals, I won't even need stagging yards. As I said, this is a direct throwback to being a former model railroader. Although, having the trains in the stagging yards allows me to alter the time talbe if it's needed or I want to run a train or trains out of order to test things out. I don't think that is possible with Portals.

There is also the large power plant at Hackney that does receive strings of loaded hoppers and sends out empties via the NS. At 1st I ran this scenario with the coal consist being interchanged at Hackney with the BN. The BN via the local switchers picked up the emppties and had them on the proper track for the return trip to Witchita. Those BN switchers would also deliver the loaded coal hoppers to the plant. This whole operation seemed redundant to me with much wasted time and effort. Again, something I'm not sure would transpire in the real world. I then ran the operation with the NS dropping off and picking up the empties. Half the moves, and half the time required. The issued then became one of joint trackage rights for the NS. I "bent" that rule by deciding that Hackney already allowed joint trackage for the NS, BN, & UP so that each can access Hackney Yard. The Power Plant is in Hackney so I wasn't stretching the rule that much. On the other hand the BN would then not receive any monetary compensation for those coal runs, so would they agree to such a operation?

Joel

 

[Dap]

. . . being a former model railroader.

I take exception to this statement. You are still a model railroader, just modeling in a different an much more versitle medium. :Y:

Although, having the trains in the stagging yards allows me to alter the time talbe if it's needed or I want to run a train or trains out of order to test things out. I don't think that is possible with Portals.

Not from Driver mode, but in Surveyor mode with Portal Schedule Rule, you can set and alter the schedule and it happens automatically in Driver mode.

It sounds like you are having a great time working out the "trackage rights" and other logistics between your various railroads. Enjoy, and keep us posted with a screen shot or two as you progress with your route.

David

 

[unhinged]

..... whether you're primarily a route builder and point to point driver (like me) or a user who enjoys setting up industries and balancing traffic flow.

I have noticed a considerable discussion regarding Industry; intermodal, coal, oil, etc - that I will call "Freight" and Point-to-Point that I'm going to name "Scenic Driving".

One industry I have noticed missing - my favourite - is Passenger Services. I enjoy large suburban passenger routes. I am even building a route with an Underground tram subway, an above ground Interurban Corridor network with multiple trains as well as hot-shot Interstate Passenger Express and Freight. I enjoy 'programming' drivers and signals and speeds and watching the trains "interact" and either enjoying a scenic drive from the North to the South of my Metropolis in a Hotshot or taking a slower, more thoughtful drive from Station to Station and watching or waiting for fellow consists to roll by.

I have only started of course. But I thought I'd just drop my 2c in. Prototypical railroads interest me, but prototypical operations are still a bit out of my league