Double-Heading Steam

So how did railroads coordinate double-heading steam locomotives? Not just how they communicated (which I am curious about), but what kind of system the engineers used to coordinate power output. With two locomotives of the same class, it seems like it would be easy; just set the throttle and the cutoff to the same setting. But how did they do it with two locomotives of different classes, especially if the two classes had different driver diameters and different high speeds?

I'm guessing they would use a similar system for triple-heading?

And just out of curiosity, were there ever instances where a railroad would double-head the locomotives back-to-back?

Thanks!
 
So how did railroads coordinate double-heading steam locomotives? Not just how they communicated (which I am curious about),
Whistle codes in most cases.

but what kind of system the engineers used to coordinate power output. With two locomotives of the same class, it seems like it would be easy; just set the throttle and the cutoff to the same setting. But how did they do it with two locomotives of different classes, especially if the two classes had different driver diameters and different high speeds?
Open the throttle as wide open as it can go without causing wheelspin, I guess. :hehe:

Kieran.
 
The crews on steam locomotives were skilled and experienced and totally familiar with the routes and conditions and classes of locomotives used on those routes , and were subjected to tests every six months or so as required to make sure they are still familiar with the routes and loco's.
One could say that it was similar to a skilled person knowing his car and the road to be travelled off by heart.
Drivers or engineers as they are called are constantly assessing conditions , checking gauges, planning ahead, making adjustments to braking , throttle and reversor or cutoff , and no two locomotives are exactly the same , they all had their own character and the drivers knew it. Some crews used walkie talkies but in general the whistle and hand signs were used to communicate.
It does not matter how strong a loco is pushing or pulling, the important thing is slack in the knuckles, it was important to keep the train 'tight' for smooth operation . The longer the train was the more slack and other factors like stresses and strains became to smooth operation. On long trains the locomotives would start to move and a while later the guards van would fly away with a whack and a bang if things were not done smoothly...ask some conductors...
Triple heading did not happen often as far as I know, perhaps when there were efficiency problems ,failures or very bad weather. A big negative of steam locos was that each locomotive needed a crew and could not be MU'd or remote controlled ( yet ).
Back to back I think would only happen in emergencies when there was no way of turning locomotives, and the drivers would not be in eye contact.
I am no expert but I had a lot to do with the crews and train working because I worked on locomotives and recovery teams for many years , but I am sure other trainzers will fill in where I left things out :)
 
On long trains the locomotives would start to move and a while later the guards van would fly away with a whack and a bang if things were not done smoothly...ask some conductors...

I believe I know what you mean, but my brain just imagines the van decoupling.. :confused: , I suppose though, under the right..(Or should that be 'wrong' circumstances :hehe:)... the van may well decouple and go flying off down the track?
 
Coupler slack isn't reserved for double-heading as even a conventional setup can have this issue on long trains. The idea is that a train always remains 'stretched' to avoid this. In the case of 'banking' locomotives they were only meant to (at least in theory) take up the slack of the last few trailing vehicles.

Tim
 
I believe I know what you mean, but my brain just imagines the van decoupling.. :confused: , I suppose though, under the right..(Or should that be 'wrong' circumstances :hehe:)... the van may well decouple and go flying off down the track?

Fortunately when the air or vacuum brake pipes separate and vacuum or air pressure is destroyed in the train pipe the brakes apply automatically .But yes....guards have been hurt badly from the jolts.
The coal trains here by us consist of 200 trucks carrying 80 tons of coal in each truck. Six 11E electric locos pull from the front and sometimes it is necessary that diesel loco's bank from the back when things go wrong , they usually use the tracks that are level and downhill for loaded trains, but are forced to make other plans when things go wrong and they have to use the track where the empties return and it is not so level. The couplers at the back have a special long release lever that gets released at a certain spot when the load is once again under control. You can think for yourself that the person who does the releasing is leaning over from the footplate to do this, and he cannot release under pull, so has to wait for slack, and when he pulls the lever the separation is something to feel and behold, it is unbelievable how much stress and strain is involved on that long snake of a train, some of the train is on the down, some on the up, some on the curve and so on...Not like a car that has disc brakes and stops on a ticky. An engineer has to know where the train is all the time, for example - when the locomotives are going downhill we would tend to open the throttle , or close the throttle when nearing a sharp bend, like in our cars, or similar .Operating a train is completely different because of the many trucks and commodities they carry.
 
In alot of cases....the 2nd locomotive pulled the train, and the lead locomotive pulled the 2nd engine. Thats why sometimes you'd see that the second engine has a thicker plume of smoke, since it's actually doing more of the work.
The easiest mode of communication is whistle signals, but also keep in the mind, once you know what the speed limit is, it's just a matter of quickly there and maintaining that speed. As long as the brakes were off, one loco would pull or push the other and keep moving.

5989f62f2965181206a4d65c3b511538.jpg
 
And just out of curiosity, were there ever instances where a railroad would double-head the locomotives back-to-back?

Welsh Highland Railway winter services are sometimes run with back to back double heading. The winter trains are double headed with two smaller locos whilst the larger locos under go maintenance. However the smaller locos normally point up the Ffestiniog Railway meaning the sanders (fitted at the front only) are at the wrong end for working up the steep gradients of the Welsh Highland. Thus the locos are turned for the welsh Highland trains. However not all locos fit on the (very small) turntable meaning sometimes only the front loco is turned.

Linda_F&WHR15-11-14Aberglaslyn.jpg
 
Also, it's not just America that does these "double headers", many other countries around the world use this method for heavier trains to get up steep inclines at speed, we still use this method today on many steam excursions.

Britain
pb131020-elr-double-header.jpg


America
images


Australia
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Russia
p36-double-header-735x413.jpg


And many more countries, even narrow gauge uses this method.
DoubleHeader102111%20web.jpg


Even diesels and electrics use this method on regular services and excursions.

So yea, double headers are still with us and a very useful method even to this day!
 
I'm guessing they would use a similar system for triple-heading?

Yes, indeed, although triple headers are rare even around the world, but one preserved railway that uses tripleheaders the most is the Bluebell Railway.
wsu-14.jpg


Also one rare tripleheader excursion i know of is this one in the UK, 8F Number 48151, Jubilee Number 45699 "Galatea" and Royal Scot Number 46115 "Scots Guardsman".
1-The-triple-header-at-Carnforth-by-Phil-Marsh.jpg
 
You can also find photos of 3 or more steam engines pushing a snow plow and some time you see a dead loco being pulled, there are some photos of 20-30 locos being moved from BLW to the east cost for shipping to Europe.
 
Page 76 of Narrow Gauge in the Rockies by Beebe & Clegg shows 6 locos working through a large snow drift. Same page has a photo with 3 and page 77 also with 3 (two in the front pulling and one at the rear pushing).

One photo on page 93 of Colorado Midland by Morris Cafky shows at least 5 locos possibly 6 (a telephone pole is in the way) pushing a rotary snow plow. What's interesting is it looks like the last engine is reversed (tender towards the plow). Perhaps to make it easier leading the consist into curves when backing.

Locos multiply in bad weather.:hehe:

Ben
 
In alot of cases....the 2nd locomotive pulled the train, and the lead locomotive pulled the 2nd engine. Thats why sometimes you'd see that the second engine has a thicker plume of smoke, since it's actually doing more of the work.

So is that why the smaller, less powerful, locomotives are the first locomotive on a doubleheader or tripleheader? I ask this 'cause when the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum does their doubleheaders, 630 is leading with 4501 behind her. If you look up the tripleheader Norfolk Southern did for the anniversary of their original steam program, 4501 was on the front, followed by 611, then 1218.
 
That's why sometimes you'd see that the second engine has a thicker plume of smoke, since it's actually doing more of the work.

I believe I get what you mean. The second locomotive is providing an extra 'push' to the leading engine and should it be needed, the lead engine can provide thus more power, useful when on inclines.

Correct me if If I'm wrong but the moral of this statement is, if you need plenty of 'push' and 'pull'.. as well as an extra 'hand' on inclines(as well as descents, with the braking) Double Heading is just what you need?
 
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So is that why the smaller, less powerful, locomotives are the first locomotive on a doubleheader or tripleheader? I ask this 'cause when the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum does their doubleheaders, 630 is leading with 4501 behind her. If you look up the tripleheader Norfolk Southern did for the anniversary of their original steam program, 4501 was on the front, followed by 611, then 1218.

Back in the days of steam, I would imagine it would be because the train only needed a little more power than the one locomotive could provide. But that wasn't always the case. I've seen at least one photo of a larger locomotive in front of a smaller locomotive. If I remember correctly, it was a Mallet coupled to the front of a passenger train that had to traverse some pretty steep grades.

As for excursions, it's more than likely because it looks better. (Plus, it probably has some aerodynamic benefits.)
 
There are some great video's or the Cumbres and Toltec Railroad's OY steam rotary double (or in this case triple) heading to have the umf to clear the tracks, and get unstuck if the snow walls collapse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ndzPtWRoU

Also when your hauling coal up steep grades all bets are off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV8rA3UE-lc

In some of the video's of the C&TS rotary you can hear the plow whistling orders to the pushers. I would imagine they don't use radio because the shear amount of noise, might have been bale to do it on the N&W, if you had headsets.
 
This situation not only arose with steam locos, but also diesels where there was no MU connection or facility for multiple working between the classes. Relating from the diesel POV, many years ago I went on a railtour along the North Wales Coast which also ran up the Blaenau branch. On the uphill portion the train was double headed by a Class 25 leading and Class 47 coupled inside. These types could not be multipled together but were worked in tandem with a crew on each loco. From my observations, the leading loco (Class 25) was doing most of the work with the Class 47 only powering as needed. I can only assume that the two crews had a conversation before joining their respective footplates as to where power from both locos would be needed and of course the driver in the leading loco responsible for controlling the brake.

I would imagine a similar situation pertained with steam loco operation in tandem, though in the case of (say) the Somerset and Dorset line where a pilot engine was attached to the front of heavy trains between Bath Green Park and Evercreech Jn., both locos would be worked flat out on the uphill stretches. And, as touched on earlier, the crews were all experienced enginemen to whom this type of operation was nothing out of the ordinary just another day on the job carrying out a well rehearsed routine.
 
I believe I get what you mean. The second locomotive is providing an extra 'push' to the leading engine and should it be needed, the lead engine can provide thus more power, useful when on inclines.

Correct me if If I'm wrong but the moral of this statement is, if you need plenty of 'push' and 'pull'.. as well as an extra 'hand' on inclines(as well as descents, with the braking) Double Heading is just what you need?

No, the second engine isn't pushing the lead engine.....the lead engine is pulling the second engine. The second engine is coupled to the train and bares all that weight....the engine at the front provides extra pull to the 2nd engine.

Its the same concept of you dragging a heavy box with one hand....you have all that weight being towed, and when someone else grabs your free hand and pulls you, you still have all the weight tagged to you, the other person is just pulling you, while you pull the box.
 
which knuckle is taking the heaviest strain on a train with more than one locomotive ? a few factors to consider when pulling and pushing a load ? The rear loco/s might have less power than the front ..or more power....etc..
 
So is that why the smaller, less powerful, locomotives are the first locomotive on a doubleheader or tripleheader? I ask this 'cause when the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum does their doubleheaders, 630 is leading with 4501 behind her. If you look up the tripleheader Norfolk Southern did for the anniversary of their original steam program, 4501 was on the front, followed by 611, then 1218.

Yea, it's to help spread the weight, if the most powerful would be at the front the second or third engine would start slowing the train down, because the less powerful train would be pulling the coaches, but as the most powerful is the second or third engine, that way it can pull the coaches while the first or second engine can help it.

For diesels and electrics, it doesn't really matter as they have no problems at all.

Steam engines have to be treated like horses, if a stagecoach with 2 horses was used, the more powerful and adult horse would be right behind the stage coach while the less powerful and young horse would be at the front, that way some stagecoach's can reach speeds more then 5mph.
 
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