Decouple DXL might actually break a loco down.

[JonMyrlennBailey]

Decouple DLX,<kuid2:160293:100120:2> by trev999 is a command that uses coupler sequence numbers to point out the spot to uncoupled.

I have broken driver-occupied locos from other locos in a locomotive consist from it leaving some of the locos driverless. The driverless engines left behind sometimes crap out. The locos with the driver on board still function, however. When a driver is moved back to those driverless engines, they go nowhere. The lights doesn't even turn on. No throttle response. No smoke. No enginesounds. Besides closing the session unsaved and restarting Driver from square one, I can still manage to "jump start" the dead engine(s) manually by hooking up a drivable locomotive to it. After manually uncoupling the jumper loco, the formerly-dead engines run as good as new again. Other decoupling commands don't seem to have this issue.

This loco-killing phenomenon happens in T212 and TANE to if my memory serves me correctly.



UnCouplezFrom,<kuid2:66277:80005:2> by smileyman is a more reliable decoupling command by the sequence numbers. It hasn't killed an engine on me yet. It has the quirkiness of having zero (0) as the first coupler behind the nose of the lead engine. You count the couplers behind the nose and subtract one to designate your uncoupling point.

The built-in Auran Decouple requires you to know the specific identity (loco model/line, instance number) of the traincar to be uncoupled and that can be complex and confusing. Some commands identify traincars simply by the track mark they are parked at and that makes things easier. You can give a track mark a simple, unique and recognizable name as "Trackmark ATSF Superchief holding siding" and so on.

Driver doesn't allow you to easily identify a traincar by simply clicking on it like Surveyor does with the Properties (?) tool.

 

[pware]

Jon,

I have jest tested Decouple DLX,<kuid2:160293:100120:2> by trev999 and it is working perfectly, both in Driver and in the Session Editor. I am using Trainz Plus but it worked exactly the same in TRS19 and TRS19 Platinum Edition when I was using those. From memory (it has been a while) it also worked in T:ANE.

You did not describe how you are identifying the wagon or vehicle number when you issue the Decouple DLX command. In Driver mode both the vehicle number and its name are shown in the popup menu, while in the Session Editor only the vehicle number is shown.
The first vehicle (the lead loco) is 0, the second vehicle (the second loco or the tender attached to the first loco) is 1, and so on down the line, up to vehicle 99.

In the image above, the first loco is 0 and its tender is 1, The second loco is a Garrett with the head unit as 2, the main (boiler) unit as 3, and the tender unit as 4. The first freight wagon is 5, and so on.

Decouple DLX 5 created the result shown above.
Decouple DLX 2 separated the two locos. If I had issued Decouple DLX 4 the Garrett would have separated between the main unit and the tender unit.

EDIT: After further experimentation, I think I can see what you mean.

Both locos in the setup shown above have been assigned drivers and after using the Decouple DLX command to separate the two locos the two drivers are still assigned to their locos BUT the driver of the 2nd loco does not respond to driver commands.

I will send trev999 a PM to alert him to this problem.

 

[wreeder]

Peter, I believe this to be a bug in TRS19 not a problem with that specific command. I think while it appears that both locos have drivers assigned, the one that won't accept commands does not have a driver assigned. Tell the assigned driver to get off the loco and then back on and everything works fine from then onward. I recreated the same bug using the builtin couple and uncouple commands. It appears the first time two locos are coupled together, the driver in the rear loco has a chance of going on walkabout.

 

[Christopher824]

I have been working with trev999 on a few of his assets. The Decouple DLX is one of them. It breaks in TRS19 where it wont work in a hump yard. It decouples, but the car will not detach in a hump yard scenerio. I have a Hump Yard Tutorial here with a PDF that talks about the problem.

https://cdetrainz.com/tutorials_hump_yard_sorting.aspx

Your problem may be related, so I'm looking carefully to what you are describing. Once we figure it out, it will be released as CDE Decouple DLX. If you are interested, I can send a CDP to try it before it is released on the DLS.

Also, here is a new video of a humps yard in action;
https://youtu.be/3fCoGNGTzCY

 

[pware]

Peter, I believe this to be a bug in TRS19 not a problem with that specific command. I think while it appears that both locos have drivers assigned, the one that won't accept commands does not have a driver assigned. Tell the assigned driver to get off the loco and then back on and everything works fine from then onward. I recreated the same bug using the builtin couple and uncouple commands. It appears the first time two locos are coupled together, the driver in the rear loco has a chance of going on walkabout.

Ran some tests using the session shown in my first post. The results/observations.

In Driver mode using both locos with assigned drivers and the built in Uncouple command issued to the first driver to separate the two locos. Locos separated correctly. First driver issued with a command to Drive To a trackmark. Second driver issued with a command to Drive To a different but still reachable trackmark. Both drivers obey their issued commands.

Above sequence repeated using the Decouple DLX command. Only the first driver responded.

Sequence repeated again with the Decouple DLX command but this time the second driver was first given the instruction to Move Off the Train, which was obeyed and then reassigned to the same loco, again obeyed. When he/she was instructed to Drive To the trackmark the command is ignored.

So, the problems appears to be with the Decouple DLX command.

 

[pware]

Your problem may be related, so I'm looking carefully to what you are describing. Once we figure it out, it will be released as CDE Decouple DLX. If you are interested, I can send a CDP to try it before it is released on the DLS.

Thanks, I would be interested in having a look.

 

[JonMyrlennBailey]

Jon,

I have jest tested Decouple DLX,<kuid2:160293:100120:2> by trev999 and it is working perfectly, both in Driver and in the Session Editor. I am using Trainz Plus but it worked exactly the same in TRS19 and TRS19 Platinum Edition when I was using those. From memory (it has been a while) it also worked in T:ANE.

You did not describe how you are identifying the wagon or vehicle number when you issue the Decouple DLX command. In Driver mode both the vehicle number and its name are shown in the popup menu, while in the Session Editor only the vehicle number is shown.
The first vehicle (the lead loco) is 0, the second vehicle (the second loco or the tender attached to the first loco) is 1, and so on down the line, up to vehicle 99.

In the image above, the first loco is 0 and its tender is 1, The second loco is a Garrett with the head unit as 2, the main (boiler) unit as 3, and the tender unit as 4. The first freight wagon is 5, and so on.

Decouple DLX 5 created the result shown above.
Decouple DLX 2 separated the two locos. If I had issued Decouple DLX 4 the Garrett would have separated between the main unit and the tender unit.

EDIT: After further experimentation, I think I can see what you mean.

Both locos in the setup shown above have been assigned drivers and after using the Decouple DLX command to separate the two locos the two drivers are still assigned to their locos BUT the driver of the 2nd loco does not respond to driver commands.

I will send trev999 a PM to alert him to this problem.

Coupler identified by number, of course. Counting couplers back from the nose of the lead loco and excluding the nose coupler itself.

UnCouplezFrom,<kuid2:66277:80005:2> by smileyman solves my engine conk-out problems associated with uncoupling. Trainz is software that's truly jinxed. It's the eighth wonder of the modern world.

 

[wreeder]

Here is a short video showing steps to reproducing the buggy behavior of the built-in decouple command and its effect on locomotives.

 

[JCitron]

That's an interesting bug find, but anyway to get the properties on any train car, or locomotive,

Press the CTRL-key while right-clicking on the train. This will bring up the properties box which includes the name as assigned on the route. The actual name is not always the same as the assigned name due to various reasons including the number of the same freight car installed.

 

[pware]

Here is a short video showing steps to reproducing the buggy behavior of the built-in decouple command and its effect on locomotives.

Having viewed the video and then running some tests myself, it seems that the reason why the locos do not move is a combination of the Drive command, the loco heading and the close proximity of other vehicles.

I set up a similar situation as shown in your video but with the locos starting uncoupled from each other and from the cars but only slightly separated. Both locos had their direction of travel towards the cars.

Neither would obey the Drive command because, I believe, they both saw that the path ahead (towards the cars) was blocked by other vehicles.

Using the tool to change the loco headings so that they pointed away from the cars gave them a clear path ahead and they obeyed the Drive command. In the case of the 2nd loco it moved until it became too close the the 1st loco which I had stopped further down the track.

 

[JonMyrlennBailey]

That's an interesting bug find, but anyway to get the properties on any train car, or locomotive,

Press the CTRL-key while right-clicking on the train. This will bring up the properties box which includes the name as assigned on the route. The actual name is not always the same as the assigned name due to various reasons including the number of the same freight car installed.

I have also found that some locos follow others after decoupling a locomotive consist down the middle using the Decouple DLX,<kuid2:160293:100120:2> by trev999 command. I have had a string of 4 engines that when cut right in the middle, continue to move together as one unit. Just because the jaws of the coupler are open, doesn't mean the engines are guaranteed to separate when the driver tries to take off in one end of the "split" consist. In that case, I have to move the driver to the other end of the loco split and have him drive toward a track mark the opposite direction just to pull the train apart. Then I have to move "Dave" back to the other set of separated locos again so he can continue to drive forward as onto the roundhouse turntable. I have to split my 4-engine string in two to fit the turntable and the roundhouse bays. The devil is in splitting the engines, track mark locations and strategically bouncing the driver around in some clever sequence on the time table. Marshaling locos at the roundhouse is a real juggling act. It's even trickier to put the engines back to bed than it was in pulling them out of the roundhouse in AI mode. It's simply easier to put engines together than pull them apart.

 

[JCitron]

I have also found that some locos follow others after decoupling a locomotive consist down the middle using the Decouple DLX,<kuid2:160293:100120:2> by trev999 command. I have had a string 4 engines that when cut right in the middle, continue to move together as one unit. Just because the jaws of the coupler are open, doesn't mean the engines are guaranteed to separate when the driver tries to take off in one end of the "split" consist. In that case, I have to move the driver to the other end of the loco split and have him drive toward a track mark the opposite direction just to pull the train apart. Then I have to move "Dave" back to the other set of separated locos again so he can continue to drive forward as onto the roundhouse turntable. I have to split my 4-engine string in two to fit the turntable and the roundhouse bays. The devil is in splitting the engines, track mark locations and strategically bouncing the driver around in some clever sequence on the time table. Marshaling locos at the roundhouse is a real juggling act. It's even trickier to put the engines back to bed than it was in pulling them out of the roundhouse in AI mode. It's simply easier to put engines together than pull them apart.

I've run into that issue as well on occasion when the AI become blind to commands and run about as if they're on their own. The only way I have found to stop them, outside of jumping into Surveyor in the Plus version and delete them, is to attach another train to them and take control.

 

[wreeder]

Take note that the BN loco has not been issued a decouple command. It couples to the hoppers but after the Santa Fe loco decouples from it and moves away the BN loco now believes that it is not coupled to anything. It should understand that it is coupled to the hoppers and be able to move them regardless of the direction of travel of the loco.

 

[pware]

Retested with slightly different results from yours.

1. Control to establish base operation with Drive command:

• Manually couple 2nd loco to wagon with manual driving.
• Manually couple 1st loco to 2nd with manual driving.
• Manually decouple 1st loco from 2nd. Change heading of 1st loco to face forward. Issue AI Drive command to 1st loco. Result: It moves forward.
• Manually decouple 2nd loco from wagon. Change heading of 2nd loco to face forward. Issue AI Drive command to 2nd loco. Result: It moves forward.

2. Test using built-in Couple and Decouple commands with Drive command:

• Use Couple command to couple 2nd loco to wagon.
• Use Couple command to couple 1st loco to 2nd loco.
• Use Decouple command to separate 1st loco from 2nd. Change heading of 1st loco to face forward. Issue AI Drive command to 1st loco. Result: It moves forward.
• Use Decouple command to separate 2nd loco from wagon. Change heading of 2nd loco to face forward. Issue AI Drive command to 2nd loco. Result: It moves forward.

3. Test using built-in Couple and DLS Decouple DLX commands with Drive command:

• Use Couple command to couple 2nd loco to wagon.
• Use Couple command to couple 1st loco to 2nd loco.
• Use Decouple DLX command to separate 1st loco from 2nd. Change heading of 1st loco to face forward. Issue AI Drive command to 1st loco. Result: It does not move. This test was repeated several time to confirm result.

This seems to confirm that there is something wrong with the Decouple DLX command when used with multiple locos.

 

[trev999]

Thanks, Guys, for the reports about my DLX command. On investigation I conclude that the reason for the behaviour is due to a feature where the physics of the decoupled consist is disabled by the command. There ought to be a check that prevents the disabling of the consist physics if a loco is still coupled but that doesn't take place.

A workaround is to disable the feature by editing "decoupleschedulecommand.gs" and commenting out line 160, by adding two slashes to the beginning of that line.

There is a later version of the command in the pipe-line which will be released once the other issue with TRS19 and hump sorting has been resolved.

Best Regards - Trev

 

[pware]

Thank you Trev. I will look for the updated command when it is released.

 

[pware]

Downloaded and installed the updated <kuid:647907:100949> CDE Decouple DLX driver command and ran tests. The same tests as in post #14 of this thread. I am sorry to report that the results were the same.

The new CDE Decouple DLX command will work to separate the first loco from the second. It will also work when the two locos are joined together and they are both separated, as a single unit, from the first wagon.

But when the first loco is separated from the second, using CDE Decouple DLX, and is move away then the second loco is given the CDE Decouple DLX command to separate it from the first wagon, it cannot be moved either manually (keyboard "W") or by driver commands.

Sorry to report.

EDIT: Forgot to add that the second loco does uncouple from the first wagon but refuses to move when given any Drive or Drive To AI command or manual "W" command.

 

[Christopher824]

Downloaded and installed the updated <kuid:647907:100949> CDE Decouple DLX driver command and ran tests. The same tests as in post #14 of this thread. I am sorry to report that the results were the same.

The new CDE Decouple DLX command will work to separate the first loco from the second. It will also work when the two locos are joined together and they are both separated, as a single unit, from the first wagon.

But when the first loco is separated from the second, using CDE Decouple DLX, and is move away then the second loco is given the CDE Decouple DLX command to separate it from the first wagon, it cannot be moved either manually (keyboard "W") or by driver commands.

Sorry to report.

EDIT: Forgot to add that the second loco does uncouple from the first wagon but refuses to move when given any Drive or Drive To AI command or manual "W" command.

pware, thanks for helping us look into this. I think we are getting closer to a solution. Currently, the asset works when decoupling wagons or locos if they are not going to be driven. Once a loco is detached, its a boxcar in TRS19 (not sure in TANE yet).

Anyone know the script call to assign a consist into a consist with loco so it can be driven, and assign a driver to it?