Creating Sessions...Arrrrrrrggggg!!!!!

[Dalwood]

Ok...can someone....ANYONE...drag me back from the abyss of insanity by explaining, in easy terms, how you are supposed to create a 'session' for use by other Drivers WITHOUT resorting to Voodoo, Witchcraft or turning to the 'Dark Side'.!!!!

Before anyone comments, let it be known that I have created many,many,sessions for my own use (some extremly complex) for the routes I have on my computer and all function as intended. However, my major problems occur when creating (or trying to create) a session for distribution.
Problem 1
Many of the routes I wish to use (either in-built or downloaded) do not have industries setup as I want them setup, OR, have nothing setup at all. In these cases, it seems impossible (at least I think it is!) to modify ANY industry without being forced to save the Route rather than just the session. Is there any way around this problem?
Problem 2
I normally work on the session layer with the route layer 'locked' but on occasions (don't know why) am still asked to save the Route as well as the session. This is pointless as, obviously, the Route is saved under my Kuid which means the session is going to be usless for anyone else unless they have my version of the Route. Any ideas anyone?

I'm begining to wonder if I'm not entirely alone with this problem as I have downloaded a few sessions for some of my favourite Routes and I have yet to find one that actually works properly (as the author intended). Whether this is the fault of the Author, something getting 'screwed' in the upload process OR the dowload remains to be seen.
So, is there something obvious I have over-looked or is there some 'devious' method of achieving the modification of industries that I don't know about?

Incidently, I'm now only working with TS12.
Regards,
Dalwood

 

[itareus]

To the best of my knowledge if you modify or create anything in a session layer that must (according to the "rules") be on a route layer then Trainz will put it on the route layer and thus require the route to be saved along with your session. (this applies to TS2010 but I guess the same applies to 12).

I hope for your sanity's sake that someone has found a work around, or nkows better than I do !!

 

[celje]

...if you modify or create anything in a session layer that must (according to the "rules") be on a route layer then Trainz will put it on the route layer and thus require the route to be saved along with your session

itareus, that's not correct

see

Layers Quickstart Guide


Dalwood, for both of your problems you will find the answer in the thread mentioned above.

Of course if you wish to upload the session for original route then there is a limitations.
Look
[h=3]ECML KC-Nc cargo session[/h]
regards
celje

 

[pware]

I agree with celje.

In my experience it is possible to modify session layers without having to resave the route each time. The properties of active industries (types and quantites of goods) are stored as part of a session although not in a session layer. I do not recall ever being forced to resave the route after altering the propertes of an industry.

I do have one point of confusion in your post - forgive me if the confusion is mine or if I have misinterpreted your post. You load into surveyor a route that was either built-in to Trainz or downloaded from the DLS and then modify the properties of one of its active industry assets. You then save. Trainz asks you to save both the route and the session. The reason for saving the session is obvious because you have just modified a session related feature - the properties of an industry. However, you must also save the route at least once because it will now be saved under your name and kuid number, not those of the original creator. You can also change the name of the route if you wish. The route now belongs to you as a "customised" route. If you upload the session to the DLS then you must also upload your new customised route as well - even though you may not have changed a single thing in the route you have in fact "rebadged it" as one of your routes.

Peter Ware

 

[Dalwood]

Peter,
I believe you have grasped my problem in part. I will try and explain a little better.
I don't normally load the route into surveyor, I select the route, go into sessions then select 'Create new session'. It is then, in the session layer, that I try to alter the properties of an industry. As long as I don't modify an industry, I have no problem, only the session is saved.

Now, if I use a route which has the default Auran industries e.g. Coal Mine, Power Station, lumber Mill etc.etc. I have no problems as I only have to create the session which will then save as a session only. So, I can create and upload as many sessions as I wish and anyone with the original Route will be able to run those sessions without problem (hopefully )

If, however, the route I wish to use has only got MIN industries which haven't been set up by the route creator, then my Driver can't load/unload anything at those industries....a pointless excercise!
For my Driver to be able to carry out loading and unloading tasks require me to modify the properties of those industries, which, as you rightly point out, requires me to save, not only the session but a 'modified' route, which is the problem I'm trying to avoid.
Surely, there must be some method by which industry properties can be modified within a session without it effecting the route itself??
Regards,
Dalwood

 

[philskene]

"For my Driver to be able to carry out loading and unloading tasks require me to modify the properties of those industries, which, as you rightly point out, requires me to save, not only the session but a 'modified' route, which is the problem I'm trying to avoid."

That's certainly not my experience. If I am in the session layer and I configure or change the configuration of the industries then I only have to save the session, not the route.

But if you do want to start with a session where all of the industries are configured, try my (search using "philskene" as the author) multiplayer sessions on the Download Station. In the folder containing the route you will find a txt and sometimes a jpg file showing how the industries are configured and the freight cars that are used. This is from DowntownTractionCo:

If you do not want to use multiplayer, remove the multiplayer rule "Edit Session Rules".

Tell me if this helps.

 

[pware]

I just conducted a test with a route I just downloaded from the DLS - the route had no sessions. I followed your steps and created a new session (which does load the route into surveyor for editing) and then modified the product properties of one of its active industries. Then I selected Save from the menu. Only the newly created session was saved - Trainz, contrary to my earlier opinion, did not resave the route.

I exited Trainz and entered CM and found that the original route was unaltered but a new session had been created with my user name and KUID number.

Unfortunately the route did not have any MIN (Multiple Industry New) assets to test. My only hypothesis would be that the MIN assets are somehow altering the route data and not just the session data as I would have expected.

 

[Lewiscc65]

I have created a session using the MIN and it worked fine. The one thing you have to watch for is not to place some thing then undo this will create a route change. You need the route layer open in order to change the properties even thought they are not saved there. I do a save after each MIN change.

 

[Dalwood]

Hello All,
Many, many thanks for all of your replies and advice. I think the problem has been cracked....Yippee!!!

I'm not 100% sure as to how it's been solved BUT could be down to a number of things i.e. :-

1) The routes I have been using are ones that I ported over from TS10, not realizing that they had been updated for TS12 (Many Thanks Phil)
2) Some rolling stock also needed updating.
3) I also discovered that, when changing a MIN industry properties, switching the MIN properties tab to the 'Session Layer' causes the editor to want to save the route. Leaving it set to the Route Layer doesn't cause this to happen.
4) Possible 'finger trouble', accidently (Duh!) moving a scenery item or adding then undo-ing something also causes the editor to want to save the route.

So, barring any other 'Gremlins' creeping in, it looks like my problems are solved (or is that tempting fate!!!!)

I do a save after each MIN change.

Point noted

Thanks again to all
Regards,
Dalwood

 

[Lewiscc65]

3) I also discovered that, when changing a MIN industry properties, switching the MIN properties tab to the 'Session Layer' causes the editor to want to save the route. Leaving it set to the Route Layer doesn't cause this to happen.

When you switch the MIN properties tab to Session Layer you are actually changing the MIN track to the session layer. The properties of the track are saved to the session layer by default.