Could Steam Rule Again?

[BigBoyFan4006]

***sigh***
Read everything given to you, then do research.
John T Rhodes is working with the Coalition for Sustainable Rail http://www.csrail.org/ , with title as Vice President and Treasurer. David Ward is President, and Shaun McMahon is Director of Engineering. Advisors include Bill Withuhn and the son of LD Porta, Alejandro Porta.

So? In my opinion that makes him all the more capable and more suited to write the article. He obviously knows what he's talking about since it's his field of research, and he is able to gather knowledge from his colleges. If I'm missing something, please tell me.

 

[opus722]

Honestly, I'm just upset that the Coalition for Sustainable Rail is going to butcher ATSF 3463 for what is, at best, a pipe dream. For all the infrastructure upgrades and construction needed to maintain a fleet of modernized steam locomotives the railroad might as well just electrify the line.

 

[Enzo1]

Honestly, I'm just upset that the Coalition for Sustainable Rail is going to butcher ATSF 3463 for what is, at best, a pipe dream. For all the infrastructure upgrades and construction needed to maintain a fleet of modernized steam locomotives the railroad might as well just electrify the line.

The problem is, they were once going to electrify the rail-lines until they found out the cost of doing it all! Steamers never had and probably never will have the power that today's modern diesels have. Parts would be too expensive. Everything about the idea is just to expensive to do, not to mention they would never get past the EPA. EPA is really the reason why we don't see steam engines anymore.

 

[bendorsey]

Actually there is a scenario in which steam engines could replace diesels. Not because of efficiency but of necessity.

The sun (good old sol) puts out a truly gigantic MCE (Mass Coronal Ejection) that fries absolutely every transistor and solid state device on earth no matter how well shielded. Nothing incorporating one would work. My old motorcycle with a carburetor would - your brand spanking new Corvette with computerized fuel injection would not. Basically its back to the 1920's or 1930's before any solid sate device was invented. Yes we would still know how to make them but the machinery to do so wouldn't work ether as is all computer controlled as well. Worse - the machines to make the machines to make the machines and so on wouldn't work either for the same reason.

A highly unlikely event but not impossible. Steam engines were built before the transistor and computer control and could be again, lol.

Vacuum tubes anyone?

Ben (amateur astronomer)

 

[Enzo1]

Actually there is a scenario in which steam engines could replace diesels. Not because of efficiency but of necessity.

The sun (good old sol) puts out a truly gigantic MCE (Mass Coronal Ejection) that fries absolutely every transistor and solid state device on earth no matter how well shielded. Nothing incorporating one would work. My old motorcycle with a carburetor would - your brand spanking new Corvette with computerized fuel injection would not. Basically its back to the 1920's or 1930's before any solid sate device was invented. Yes we would still know how to make them but the machinery to do so wouldn't work ether as is all computer controlled as well. Worse - the machines to make the machines to make the machines and so on wouldn't work either for the same reason.

A highly unlikely event but not impossible. Steam engines were built before the transistor and computer control and could be again, lol.

Vacuum tubes anyone?

Ben (amateur astronomer)

This is quite a possible theory. I would have never thought of an event like that could change how the entire world rolls. Who knows, it could happen in the future.

 

[PortlandBill]

I think if the sun put out a massive MCE, frying transistors would be the least of our problems

 

[bendorsey]

Its happened in the recent past. A few years ago one tripped a lot of the electrical grid in Canada and part of the US. A big enough one would totally fry the electrical grid world-wide but would have little direct effect on humans unless you have a pacemaker or the like that is solid state controlled.

Mass fatalities overnight - no. Its the side effects that would cause world wide problems. Agriculture reduced to mom-n-pop farms. Ditto cattle. No transportation other then by horse or shanks mare unless you he a car or truck with a carburetor and even then gas would become a problem as refineries are massively computer controlled. Anyone have a Stanly Steamer in their garage, lol? Medicine - - - back to your local family doctor. No TV (wait - that might be a blessing in disguise, lol).

Steam power would work just as soon as folks could get things connected and stoked up.

Ben

 

[kws4000]

Honestly, I'm just upset that the Coalition for Sustainable Rail is going to butcher ATSF 3463 for what is, at best, a pipe dream. For all the infrastructure upgrades and construction needed to maintain a fleet of modernized steam locomotives the railroad might as well just electrify the line.

True, "CSR is not a preservation organization and will not be “restoring” the locomotive to preservation, but it recognizes the historical importance of the locomotive which, until acquisition by CSR, rusted away silently under the shade of a cottonwood tree. This organization will do its best to recognize the history of the locomotive and provide new worth to it."

However, would you rather have it rust away? Stated elsewhere, once project and demonstration is complete, it is anticipated to return her back to original appearance.

 

[KingConrail76]

Actually there is a scenario in which steam engines could replace diesels. Not because of efficiency but of necessity.

The sun (good old sol) puts out a truly gigantic MCE (Mass Coronal Ejection) that fries absolutely every transistor and solid state device on earth no matter how well shielded. Nothing incorporating one would work. My old motorcycle with a carburetor would - your brand spanking new Corvette with computerized fuel injection would not. Basically its back to the 1920's or 1930's before any solid sate device was invented. Yes we would still know how to make them but the machinery to do so wouldn't work ether as is all computer controlled as well. Worse - the machines to make the machines to make the machines and so on wouldn't work either for the same reason.

A highly unlikely event but not impossible. Steam engines were built before the transistor and computer control and could be again, lol.

Vacuum tubes anyone?

Ben (amateur astronomer)

It wouldn't knock us back that far, that we'd need Steam engines. Long before "solid state" electronics, and even up until the mid 90's, diesel engines have been 100% mechanical (computer controls not needed, except to meet EPA regs...oh, that nasty EPA again...)

The electric motors and generators would not be affected either, as all they are are copper wires wound around steel plates, combined with magnets...

Yes, a massive EMD/MCE would make significant impact on society, but Diesel Locos would survive it.

As for the OP, simply put, Steam engines are not efficient. (external combustion)...create fire to produce heat to boil water to make steam to create force/energy to push the piston that pushes the rod that pushes the crank pins that rotates the wheels which activate and set in motion the valve train which directs the energy (lots of parasitic loss).

Diesel engine: inject fuel, compress, ignite, create force/energy, spin generator, make energy, power motors.

 

[Klinger]

The only thing not factored in, is maintenance costs. They are much...much higher then diesel locomotives.

 

[Isegrinns]

IF at some point oil is too valuable to burn it or its derivates in engines, coal-produced energy in whatever form might be the more economical "fuel". That could mean that you fire coal in powerplants and run electric engines. The steam engines in the form here discussed arent very likely to ever come back in the form we love so much. If it comes back to coal-fired engines, they´d probably look very different from the old designs. An interesting research field in that direction are the steam turbine engines developed during the end of the steam area.
There are few problems that cant be solved with modern technology, as long as it pays the bills and generates profit.
An MCE would also impair the ole days steam engines as they had many parts that would suffer during such an event.

 

[Blutorse4792]

Personally, I would prefer a return to traction.