Content Creation Help

mp202

Active member
Since I was told I needed to have a lot of custom content to sell a route, I figured I would learn. I was going to start off by making a locomotive. Is there a commonly used 3D design program to create locomotives for TS12?
 
MM. well a piece of advice first. Try something simpler like a house if you have never done any 3d modelling before. As to common programs used there is 3D Max, Blender, gmax and sketchup. I have put them in order of complexity starting with the most complex (at least some would agree).
 
MM. well a piece of advice first. Try something simpler like a house if you have never done any 3d modelling before. As to common programs used there is 3D Max, Blender, gmax and sketchup. I have put them in order of complexity starting with the most complex (at least some would agree).

Okay I am looking for the least complex program, a free program, but one that can produce quality equal to JointedRail's.
 
GMax or Blender. GMax is supposedly somewhat easier than Blender though. Do not try Sketchup. Most "pro" modellers model in 3DSMax - I think JR does - but it isn't free, and is, in fact, pretty expensive. I've tinkered with all of them but model in Blender. Antony is right, start with simple stuff and work your way up.

Here are some links to Blender tutorials:
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...r-TS12&p=970575&highlight=tutorial#post970575

Phil_C of World of Trainz has some good GMax tutorials, but he starts you off with a locomotive, so perhaps try this one first if you go GMax:
http://www.worldoftrainz.com/garyp/gmaxtutorials.htm
http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/learning.htm

Oh, also get used to working either with Photoshop or Gimp, as the best textures are made from photographs of objects. IMO this is harder than the modelling part.
 
You might want to give 3DCrafter a try - http://amabilis.com/?page_id=26363 - there is a freebie version of it you can try out, but you would need the pro (payware version of it), which is still relatively inexpensive for such a capable 3D program at about 40 quid, to be able to export models in the correct format since the freebie version does not have many plug ins that are necessary for exporting in the correct format for Trainz. Crafter has the advantage of being fairly easy to learn, and the pro version can export to MSTS and FSX too, so if you are looking at selling models, that might be of importance, since it opens up more market possibilities.

Be aware that 3DSMax is quite a steep learning curve, and I know that because I train people on it for a living! But, if you do want to give Max a go, you could try GMax, which is the free chopped down version of 3DSMax, 3DSMax itself being very pricey although students can get a discount. It is also possible to use Google Sketchup, but it is not ideal for creating stuff like trains. You would probably also need Photoshop for texture creation, although again there are freebie alternatives, such as Paint.net, which is very good.

There are a lot of freebie 3D programs you could use, you just have to be sure that they can either convert or export to the necessary file format. Here's a list of some good ones if you are feeling like exploring your options. All of these ones listed have a free version of some kind, so you can try them out and then if you need the full versions to export in the Trainz format, you will know whether you will end up liking the program, which is important, because it often comes down to personal preference as to which 3D program people end up using:

http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/25-free-3d-modelling-applications-you-should-not-miss/

That site link by the way(hongkiat.com), has a lot of Photoshop tutorials on it, in fact it's the one I send my students to when they ask about where to find decent Photoshop tutorials.

Al
 
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I doubt it as it's only a 30-day trial. Also, due to the DRM, you're essentially renting the software; you won't really own it. With those warnings in mind, I do believe there is a "student version" available for about $160, though I don't know how long that's good for - try searching the forums here as I believe at least a few folks have obtained it that way, or poke around the Autodesk site.
 
Since I was told I needed to have a lot of custom content to sell a route, I figured I would learn. I was going to start off by making a locomotive. Is there a commonly used 3D design program to create locomotives for TS12?

You can simply incorporate items from the DLS in your route, you may not win friends doing it but according to N3V the DLS content is available for payware routes etc. Making good well performing content has a learning curve, typically a good steam loco will take some months to do and could well take longer.

Cheerio John
 
You might want to give 3DCrafter a try - http://amabilis.com/?page_id=26363 - there is a freebie version of it you can try out, but you would need the pro (payware version of it), which is still relatively inexpensive for such a capable 3D program at about 40 quid, to be able to export models in the correct format since the freebie version does not have many plug ins that are necessary for exporting in the correct format for Trainz. Crafter has the advantage of being fairly easy to learn, and the pro version can export to MSTS and FSX too, so if you are looking at selling models, that might be of importance, since it opens up more market possibilities.

Be aware that 3DSMax is quite a steep learning curve, and I know that because I train people on it for a living! But, if you do want to give Max a go, you could try GMax, which is the free chopped down version of 3DSMax, 3DSMax itself being very pricey although students can get a discount. It is also possible to use Google Sketchup, but it is not ideal for creating stuff like trains. You would probably also need Photoshop for texture creation, although again there are freebie alternatives, such as Paint.net, which is very good.

There are a lot of freebie 3D programs you could use, you just have to be sure that they can either convert or export to the necessary file format. Here's a list of some good ones if you are feeling like exploring your options. All of these ones listed have a free version of some kind, so you can try them out and then if you need the full versions to export in the Trainz format, you will know whether you will end up liking the program, which is important, because it often comes down to personal preference as to which 3D program people end up using:

http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/25-free-3d-modelling-applications-you-should-not-miss/

That site link by the way(hongkiat.com), has a lot of Photoshop tutorials on it, in fact it's the one I send my students to when they ask about where to find decent Photoshop tutorials.

Al

I'm looking for something relatively easy to use. I just tried Gmax and that program was very confusing. But I managed to make a cardboard box... I think I will try Crafter Now
 
The problem with programs like that is that (unless something's changed) there are no Trainz exporters available for them, so you'll have to export to a supported program and then import from there. Needless to say, there are lots of potential pitfalls if that even works at all. You could certainly try, but it would really suck if, say, you learned the program, built an entire asset, and then found out you can't export animations properly.
 
You can simply incorporate items from the DLS in your route, you may not win friends doing it but according to N3V the DLS content is available for payware routes etc. Making good well performing content has a learning curve, typically a good steam loco will take some months to do and could well take longer.

Cheerio John

Haha thanks John. I was pondering the legalities of that but I will take your word for it! :) Also could you have other creators make content for your payware route? Because I am not skilled in this area at all.
 
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You can simply incorporate items from the DLS in your route, you may not win friends doing it but according to N3V the DLS content is available for payware routes etc.
Where on earth did you dig that up from? Routes sold by N3V yes, but nobody else.

Paul
 
I'm looking for something relatively easy to use. I just tried Gmax and that program was very confusing. But I managed to make a cardboard box... I think I will try Crafter Now


If you found gmax confusing then I can tell you from experience, 3dMax will be more so. Gmax is a cut down version of 3dMax. I use 3dMax but I would not recommend it for someone who has not done any. As for saving up for it , you will need deep pockets. Blender is not the easiest to start with but it is both free and very well supported both here on the forums and on their own forums. You would do well to start with something like that.
 
Quote Originally Posted by johnwhelan View Post
You can simply incorporate items from the DLS in your route, you may not win friends doing it but according to N3V the DLS content is available for payware routes etc.



Where on earth did you dig that up from? Routes sold by N3V yes, but nobody else.

Paul

Your understanding is what I also understood until WindWalkr's post. If you have a dig in the forums you'll find a post by WindWalkr that says the DLS content is available to all content creators and that includes payware. Possibly a year or so ago. It's not something I'm happy about but it was posted as N3V's position. That's the reason I'm having difficulties with textures at the moment, according to N3V it is my responsibility to ensure any textures are licensed in accordance with the above. I did request my content be removed from the DLS because of this but apparently this cannot be done unless the copyright holder of the textures requests the removal directly from N3V.

Cheerio John
 
Yup, where 3DSMax, and to some extent GMax, since it is a chopped down version of it are concerned, the software training company I work for has an intro course for 3DSMax, and it is four full days, and very intense days they are too, making it a fairly tough course. There is also a follow-on intermediate course we do, and that's four days as well, and it costs about 1,500 quid to attend just one of those courses. Generally speaking, it is games companies and TV companies etc which send people on those courses, it is rare for someone to pay for it out of their own pocket, which is hardly surprising since 3DSMax costs a fortune to buy. That's why when you read of some young kid on the internet who says he uses 3DSMax, then they've either got fabulously rich parents, or more likely a pirated copy of it LOL.

The above should give you an idea of how involved it is to learn to use GMax or 3DSMax to a reasonably competent level, although if you do learn it well, then there are jobs out there for people with good skills in it, and of course you can make money producing stuff for things like FSX and Trainz etc. It is certainly possible to teach yourself how to use 3DSMax, there are many built-in tutorials and there are plenty of books and online tutorials which will help with that, but if you want to make something like a locomotive to acceptable payware standards, and you are teaching yourself, then I reckon it would probably take you about two weeks practicing every evening for a few hours before you were fairly confident with it to the extent that you'd be able to tackle that, and even then you'll probably have to do a bit of reading up to learn exactly how to do things like the animations properly.

Up until fairly recently, most industry jobs in 3D modeling were for people using 3DSMax, and very little else, since it was regarded as the industry standard 3D modeling program, but these days there are a few competing programs such as Cinema 4D and Maya. That might change even further too in the not too distant future, since Adobe are looking at getting into adding a 3D modeling program to their creative suite of applications, since at present the lack of really extensive 3D capabilities in Adobe's product catalogue is a fairly glaring omission.

With regard to using content off the DLS, you will probably find that the EULA states something along the lines of you relinquishing rights to it when you fire it up there for availability. It would make sense for N3V to take that position since it would remove any legal problems they might otherwise become entangled in. Some people might take umbridge at finding their freeware in a payware product, others might be flattered by it, but generally speaking although it might be a bit cheeky, when you put something out there for free, you have to expect that sort of thing can and almost certainly will occur. Personally, I have always put read me files on any freeware stuff I've made which says that anyone can do what the hell they like with it, because I know they probably would anyway, so I might as well accept that fact LOL.

Al
 
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Your understanding is what I also understood until WindWalkr's post.

I concur with John's statement, as I was "corrected" once by the same source in a different thread concerning the same subject in a rather agitated manner.

For the original poster: If you plan on selling a route it doesn't make sense to me that you would start out by building a locomotive. When people purchase a ROUTE they are more interested in location specific landmark buildings and facilities rather than locomotives and rolling stock. How far have you researched this plan? Is it even a profitable venture?
 
Yup, if it is a route you are going to make, then it will be the accuracy of the terrain and the buildings you should concentrate on developing an ability in. You will certainly find it easier to start off making buildings as opposed to vehicles, since the vast majority of buildings are invariably simple geometric shapes where the texturing does a lot of the work in making it look detailed. Vehicles on the other hand, have to be very accurately modeled, animated, and every train enthusiast and rivet-counter will spot anything you get wrong on a model of a well known locomotive, whereas they are less likely to be critical of a building that might be a couple of feet longer than the real one, or not quite the same colour as the real thing.

I would not wish to dampen your enthusiasm, but if you have not got any experience with 3D modeling, then it does take a while to get the hang of it. That in itself should not put you off, since everyone who uses 3D modeling software had to start somewhere. That said, I note that you wrote: 'I am looking for the least complex program, a free program, but one that can produce quality equal to JointedRail's'.

You should be aware that whilst the right program is important, any 3D program is merely a tool, and the real skill comes from experience and ability in using that tool, just as owning a pencil won't make you great at sketching stuff, owning a 3D program won't make you great at 3D modeling, that comes with a lot of practice, and some talent doesn't go amiss either. When you have a bash with a 3D program, you will soon realise that one simply cannot fire it up, have a quick go at a couple of tutorials and then expect to be banging out something to rival the output of the top notch payware developers in a matter of hours. Quite apart from sourcing blueprints and checking out the real thing, or some good pictures of it, it takes a long time to get that good at creating such things.

There's nothing wrong with aiming high of course, but the vast majority of good quality payware modelers of the ilk of Jointed Rail, RR Mods and VMD etc, are people who have honed their abilities over a considerable period of time, often having spent a number of years knocking out freeware before getting to a point where they are skilled enough and confident enough to make something which people are prepared to get their wallets out for. As with everything in life, it is better to learn to walk before you try running. Don't let any of this put you off, but just be aware that it is quite a task you are taking on, nevertheless, I certainly wish you good luck with it, because making 3D models is actually quite an enjoyable task when you get into it.

Al
 
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I use Gmax and it does everything I need for my countryside assets and more, just go look at my threads in the Freeware section.
As stated anything that moves is going to be a serious challenge for you if you have never used a 3D program before so begin with a simple boxey house and get used to texturing, this is where you will find it difficult as many do. Getting textures on a model and in the right place and perspective can be daunting but it gets easier with practice and you will need plenty of practice.
For instance I have been making assets for a section of my rather long route for several years now and am nowhere near finished. It takes time to make the assets and then incorporate them into the route and then add everything else.
And if there is a question mark hanging over whether or not you can use content off the DS that is freeware in a payware route then you will need to make every single item on that route, including all the trees, cars, trucks and people as well as all the buildings. Rolling stock doesn't come into it because folk will use whatever locos they have on their drives so dashing off to make one is the first big mistake wannabe creators make, they are very hard to do and to do them very well is even harder because you will need to be able to script the config file as well.
As I said, my program is Gmax and using it with TACS means it is a snap Exporting and getting the finished article into Trainz. I believe Blender now has some sort of Exporter but most 3D programs do not cater for getting your finished object into a Trainz version.
And as said by several other creators in this thread the learning curve in both Gmax and Blender is very steep and you will need a lot of patience.
I always recommend that you start by making a die (or dice for those who play at throwing them along the ground). This means you will have to create the texture first, as you will with most assets, so making a texture map is your first learning experience and it isn't even in Gmax/Blender. Then comes the hard part; after getting your texture map go into the 3D package and make the box you are going to use, preferably to the correct size for a die but that is not so important at first, then cover it with the texture you made and after that edit each side of the box and place each number in the correct order. If it sounds easy give it a go...

Best of luck, you will need a fair share of it and also somebody willing to help you over the hurdles and help like that is vital.

Angela
 
AlanBradbury is way off on how long it takes to make a loco, your first one would be more like 6 mouthes as the 3D modeling is the simple part.
 
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