So I've decided to try out this brand new technique which includes crossovers for all the train tracks in the yard. Which would allow for switch engines to maneuver across multiple tracks to get to certain rolling stock that was on a certain track. The crossover faced both directions like you would have on mainlines. Second thing is before those crossovers I have track marks which denotes the storing of rolling stock shall not exceed beyond that point. Third, I made the departure tracks separate from the rest of the yard although not isolated in it's own are but connected to the rest of the yard. Fourth, I placed a RR Workshops, Diesel Refueling Depot and Staging Tracks for the mainline and switch engines to reside when not in service. What do you guys think of this method?
Configuring Train Yards
- Thread starter Kris94
- Start date
cascaderailroad
New member
This oughta' be another great route
Last edited:
NJCurmudgeon
New member
Are you planning on operating the locomotive(s) yourself or use AI? I ask because of an issue I had with a yard I had made a while ago (Trainz 2009) that bears some similarity in terms of the numbers of switches in close proximity. It was for a passenger terminal station and the loco on an inbound train would switch to the other then of the consist via a turntable and then have to pull across a series of tracks to get to the outbound platforms for the return trip. In AI, it would only go so far and then get stuck, seemingly randomly throwing switches and never seem to realize there was in fact a clear path if they were aligned right. I had posted about it here and someone told me having a bunch of switches all close together was the problem - the AI could only think so many switches ahead and got confused.
I don't know offhand what the limit is in T12 or if it is any different. But I would suggest if you are planning on running AI trains that you do some tests to make sure the locos will be able to navigate from one side to the other.
But like JohnnyC1 said - the best layout is whatever makes sense and you can have fun with. Unless you're going for prototypical realism, I find it just has to make sense why this track is here and that building is there and so on.
I don't know offhand what the limit is in T12 or if it is any different. But I would suggest if you are planning on running AI trains that you do some tests to make sure the locos will be able to navigate from one side to the other.
But like JohnnyC1 said - the best layout is whatever makes sense and you can have fun with. Unless you're going for prototypical realism, I find it just has to make sense why this track is here and that building is there and so on.
First off, what is the purpose for the yard, is it for interchange or is it for local industry, will it have an engine service facility, car repair shop, steam or diesel or transition area. How many trains will terminate/originate from this yard. Get out a piece of paper and do the figures. A yard that does not function will soon loose interest and so will the route.
John
John
If you are interested in creating prototypical operations, I'd recommend you come up with a transportation plan for the route. There are a lot of good
resources at http://www.opsig.org/ that will help you figure this out.
Once the overall plan for the route is understood, then you can define the functions needed in the yard, which will act as guidelines for how it should be structured.
If you don't care about prototype ops, then do whatever you want. Some will like it, most who value prototype ops will probably not be impressed.
I wonder why you would need all the crossovers. A properly managed yard does not store cars and then pull them as needed. It sorts cars as they arrive and put them into the next train that will be headed in the proper direction. So, each track in the yard represents a destination or group of destinations in a general area. As a train arrives, the cars in that train are sorted or "classified" by destination. Depending on you operation plan, an outbound train will be made up either at a specific time, or when a sufficient number of cars have been accumulated. There a books written on yard operations, so please don't think that this short explanation tell the whole story.
As for using AI, I have been quite successful creating a rather complex prototype yard, using AI to bring in all the inbound trains and also to take away the outbound trains. This yard has 26 classification tracks, three arrival tracks for southbound and three arrival tracks for northbound. It includes an engine facility with turntable and roundhouse. It also uses an AI driver to pick up the cabooses from the arrival tracks and store them on the caboose track.
Best of luck with your venture.
David
resources at http://www.opsig.org/ that will help you figure this out.
Once the overall plan for the route is understood, then you can define the functions needed in the yard, which will act as guidelines for how it should be structured.
If you don't care about prototype ops, then do whatever you want. Some will like it, most who value prototype ops will probably not be impressed.
I wonder why you would need all the crossovers. A properly managed yard does not store cars and then pull them as needed. It sorts cars as they arrive and put them into the next train that will be headed in the proper direction. So, each track in the yard represents a destination or group of destinations in a general area. As a train arrives, the cars in that train are sorted or "classified" by destination. Depending on you operation plan, an outbound train will be made up either at a specific time, or when a sufficient number of cars have been accumulated. There a books written on yard operations, so please don't think that this short explanation tell the whole story.
As for using AI, I have been quite successful creating a rather complex prototype yard, using AI to bring in all the inbound trains and also to take away the outbound trains. This yard has 26 classification tracks, three arrival tracks for southbound and three arrival tracks for northbound. It includes an engine facility with turntable and roundhouse. It also uses an AI driver to pick up the cabooses from the arrival tracks and store them on the caboose track.
Best of luck with your venture.
David
cascaderailroad
New member
You might need to study some track maps of freight yards ... This looks like a 5 mile long stretch of way too widely spaced out tracks with no real yard throat, as your seems to just be a hodge podge of crossovers.
A RR has to pay real estate taxes, every year on the wide swath of land that they built on ... This is why a RR only is a narrow right of way, with no wastage of land ... tracks are usually spaced very close together, and are not merely a 500' wide swath of wasted land, 5 miles long, as that would cost the millions per year in tax's.
Also 3 way switches are rare, as they are complex, have multiple movable points, levers, and frogs, and expensive to maintain.
http://www.fymanager.co.uk/xfiles/colourfilters.html
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/41174880.jpg
A RR has to pay real estate taxes, every year on the wide swath of land that they built on ... This is why a RR only is a narrow right of way, with no wastage of land ... tracks are usually spaced very close together, and are not merely a 500' wide swath of wasted land, 5 miles long, as that would cost the millions per year in tax's.
Also 3 way switches are rare, as they are complex, have multiple movable points, levers, and frogs, and expensive to maintain.
http://www.fymanager.co.uk/xfiles/colourfilters.html
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/41174880.jpg
Last edited:
Kris, Here's some pics that might help...
Numbers 1 through 7 are local industries for switching
The interchange track is a good way of bringing stock in and out without fouling the mainline.
There is a bypass so you can run trains around switching operations
There's a loco & car servicing area and sidings for northbound and southbound freight movements
This is the same area (reversed) showing the local industry spur in more detail as well as the sidings for northbound cars. This yard works well under AI control and is great fun manually.
Also note: signals, junction levers (automatic & manual) and speed signs throughout.
Numbers 1 through 7 are local industries for switching
The interchange track is a good way of bringing stock in and out without fouling the mainline.
There is a bypass so you can run trains around switching operations
There's a loco & car servicing area and sidings for northbound and southbound freight movements
This is the same area (reversed) showing the local industry spur in more detail as well as the sidings for northbound cars. This yard works well under AI control and is great fun manually.
Also note: signals, junction levers (automatic & manual) and speed signs throughout.
FWIW eso, I would recommend removing those diamonds in your second screenshot. Real railorads hate them, require an inordinant amount of matinence, and need excessive inspection. There are very few places where they are worth it, and that is mainly in passenger terminals in the heart of the city, where space is at a premium.
And Kris, if you're tempted to build a yard that large for 15000ton drag freights, remember that if they are that large, they will only pause for fuel and a crew change. You don't need to store a train there overnight, that's a waste of money! Also, remember to slow the train down well before you get to the yard, 20mph max inside, 25mph around. Trains any larger than 15000tons are pretty much used solely in merry-go-round loading/unloading bulk, so yards are needed only for setting out bad-orders, thus no more than 3 or 4 tracks.
Of course, we could start talking about the old DM&IR iron ore shunting processes, but that's a whole different (taconite) ball game.
And Kris, if you're tempted to build a yard that large for 15000ton drag freights, remember that if they are that large, they will only pause for fuel and a crew change. You don't need to store a train there overnight, that's a waste of money! Also, remember to slow the train down well before you get to the yard, 20mph max inside, 25mph around. Trains any larger than 15000tons are pretty much used solely in merry-go-round loading/unloading bulk, so yards are needed only for setting out bad-orders, thus no more than 3 or 4 tracks.
Of course, we could start talking about the old DM&IR iron ore shunting processes, but that's a whole different (taconite) ball game.
Tell that to the Brits!
On another note I think Eso's diamonds looks perfectly fine and reasonable. What you're seeing (as he describes) is an industrial spur for local industries and not part of the mainline. Space is usually a concern for such sidings and it's not a big problem for diamonds since trains are occasional and speeds low.
Pray tell, I am much intrigued.
I have always thought of GB as an extremely cramped island, and those pics only reinforce that idea.
As for the old DM&IR, their Yellowstones brought down 18000 gross tons of iron ore/taconite pellets each train. Each was then broken into lots of 10 cars and stored on separate sidings; yes that's right, 10 cars a siding, maybe less, don't exactly remember. Each mine produces a different grade of iron ore, and the steel mills were set up for a particular blend that varied depending on desired output and plant design. So when a ship was scheduled to be loaded, particular lots would be pulled, shunted into a particular order, thawed, then dumped into their respective pocket on the ore dock. The reason for a specific order is to enable easy flow when the gate is opened and to ensure proper blending. Each pocket could hold on the order of 200 tons, which is about 4 cars worth. Once the pockets had been filled, extra cars were positioned to "top off" the ship once the gates were opened.
Great thoughts, guys.
Here's a picture of an interchange yard on the local railroad near me looking south, or east by timetable. There have been a few changes here since this view has taken including a second track on the main on the right and some improved switches going into the yard, and a new yard lead. This is a through yard so trains coming in from the south end can pull into the yard lead and disconnect their locos near the crew office. The on-call switchers, there are usually 2 or more GP-9s residing here, then do their switching duties as required.
http://goo.gl/maps/Zoytt
Here is the view looking in the opposite direction, facing north or west by timetable.
http://goo.gl/maps/B18k3
As DAP says, you need a purpose for a yard. In real life they are expensive to maintain and operate, perhaps that's why Guilford and now PAR have let this one rot down to a point there are now standing derailments! Yards also have very, very few triple switches. The only places I have seen those in real life are along transit lines and in very close quarters where a third track needs to be switched. Other than that, as can be seen by the first view, the yard lead was worked out not to have a triple switch.
Eso, your yard looks awesome. That's a great job there and it does look like it's fun to work.
John
Here's a picture of an interchange yard on the local railroad near me looking south, or east by timetable. There have been a few changes here since this view has taken including a second track on the main on the right and some improved switches going into the yard, and a new yard lead. This is a through yard so trains coming in from the south end can pull into the yard lead and disconnect their locos near the crew office. The on-call switchers, there are usually 2 or more GP-9s residing here, then do their switching duties as required.
http://goo.gl/maps/Zoytt
Here is the view looking in the opposite direction, facing north or west by timetable.
http://goo.gl/maps/B18k3
As DAP says, you need a purpose for a yard. In real life they are expensive to maintain and operate, perhaps that's why Guilford and now PAR have let this one rot down to a point there are now standing derailments! Yards also have very, very few triple switches. The only places I have seen those in real life are along transit lines and in very close quarters where a third track needs to be switched. Other than that, as can be seen by the first view, the yard lead was worked out not to have a triple switch.
Eso, your yard looks awesome. That's a great job there and it does look like it's fun to work.
John
kws4000,
Regarding diamonds in switching locations, about which you wrote in part
I would differ just a bit. While it is true that diamonds require slightly more inspection and maintenance than the same length of "normal" track, it is overstating the case to write that railroads "hate" them, and your statement about being used mainly in passenger terminals understates their use in industrial areas. While I agree that, due to the rural character of the area ESO pictured, the area would have been engineered to avoid diamonds, the fact is that railroads did, and wil,l put them in wherever they are required, and they were fairly common in industral "in-plant" situations.
ns
Regarding diamonds in switching locations, about which you wrote in part
I would differ just a bit. While it is true that diamonds require slightly more inspection and maintenance than the same length of "normal" track, it is overstating the case to write that railroads "hate" them, and your statement about being used mainly in passenger terminals understates their use in industrial areas. While I agree that, due to the rural character of the area ESO pictured, the area would have been engineered to avoid diamonds, the fact is that railroads did, and wil,l put them in wherever they are required, and they were fairly common in industral "in-plant" situations.
ns