Competitive Route Building (British Theme)

[WileeCoyote]

Folks,

I think the point is being missed here. All I think Bidmod is saying is that this particular competion is for UK based routes only. Competitions for routes from other nations coulkd be run at the same time. He's not trying to exclude anybody.

Think of it another way then, we have one big international competition, but with sub-catagories for each county (UK, USA, Australia etc, etc). The best three from each catagory go through to the grand final....or something like that.

Good idea there, I've considered doing a German one, but in the German forums as here there seems to be little interest for German railroading. But the country sub-category and then to a grand final? I think this is an excellent idea, if theres enough interest we could perhaps make it an annual thing.

WileeCoyote

 

[Lord-Claud-Hamilton]

2. 15 bb's is alot. I recall our last one was 4 bb's.

You could break this down to further categories as well. 1 BB, 4 BB etc, etc.

Yes, I know this would complicate things, but thought I'd suggest it anyway .

I'd personally love to see a category for layouts no bigger than Five Grid squares by Twenty Grid Squares

I have a couple already partly done!

Chris

 

[rockster]

hi, is there any need for people to create a route specially for this competition, could we not have a system where we could encourage users to put forward routes they have downloaded and think that theyre worthy of going to a poll.

i think it is a good idea to have a little competition like this, if alan could organise a FCT for the winner/s that would be a great reward, however i think the august deadline maybe a little early, i think there are some nice looking small routes out there but i personally like a route with a bit more functionality to it, would a 6 monthly competition not be a better idea?

cheers

Gav

 

[BidMod]

1. British theme (perhaps someone else could run another themed competition in parallel)
2. No more than 15 boards (otherwise testing and opinion finding would take forever)
3. Must contain a railway (seems obvious, but I bet someone doesn't)
4. 1 man (or woman) 1 layout; though "man" could be substituted with "team" so 1 team 1 layout - team members must not enter another layout
5. Must be uploaded to the DLS for easy access
6. Must contain only DLS assets for easy access
   These two rules are to ensure that the layouts are available to everyone anywhere, rather than to produce a community split I fear coming over the DLS issue
   Another alternative would be to create a list of acceptable sites and include a detailed list of assets and locations in the readme.
7. 1 man (or woman) 1 vote
8. Deadline for layouts to be set in August, to allow the best layouts to be developed
9. Session also to be uploaded to demonstrate the layout's potential.
10. Compatbility is not guaranteed across all versions, so it is up to the developer to decide which version of TRS will be used. Common sense dictates that the ideal solution is to use the lowest version possible, however this is not always possible.
11. Somewhere in the description add the line "2007 route builders competition" spelt letter for letter - this will allow people to search the DLS using that term to find all of the routes in the competition.
12. No Payware please - a discussion about this is for another thread I think.
13. All work must be your own.

Marking Criteria

1. Entertainment value - this is by far the most important
2. Operational potential
3. AI operation - does it operate without conflicts with each other etc.
4. Good use of space available to create a suitable landscape
5. Prototypical appearance - this does not mean the layout has to be modelled on a real place: this refers to aspects such as signal positions, track alignments, corner radii etc.

EDIT: Been thinking further about the exceptions to the DLS rules, and I think assets from VSR and HP Trainz should be exempt, simply because they are so widespread. Post what you think should be added to the list. No payware.

Yeah, I like quality layouts and anything that encourages them. I'm happy to run a poll, but i will need to ascertain exactly how many polling options we can have... leave that with me.
We may be able to offer a free 12 month FCT (or 04, 06 or other product) to the winner.

I'll also offer my thoughts on your suggested rules...
1. British??? no fair.
2. 15 bb's is alot. I recall our last one was 4 bb's.
3. Invisible railway counts.
4. OK
5. of course
6. wherever possible. minor exceptions would be OK
7. cant enforce this with a forum poll. anyone with a valid username (s/n registered in it) can vote.
8. OK
9. OK
10. OK
11. OK
12. OK
13. OK

and am i allowed to enter?

Hi Alan,

It's good to see the support of Auran here - that means a lot to us as a community and I hope we see the back of the "Auran is something nasty" posts

I think that the comments you have added fill in some of the detail I omitted originally, but could you tell us a little about last time? I guess it must have been when we had the old forum, which I only ever lurked on and even then only at the very end; so I don't know much about the last competition.

The only point I would argue is that 4 baseboards can produce a brilliant layout, but it would be quite short and restrictive for some people. Would it not be better to move with the times and produce something bigger, as computers nowadays can easily handle such layouts? Perhaps some more people could comment on this.

In answer to your last point, you are welcome to enter as long as you don't plan to rig the vote .

The idea of creating catagories interests me, especially a 100 baseboard idea - are you sure you typed that right LCH, because 15 - 100 is a big jump? I think shortening the tag to add to the description is definately a good idea though, since it would be easy to introduce a typo.

Alan - RE: the prize - I guess you would have to clear this with your superiors before offering it, but I would really appreciate this if you could offer it.

RE: the vote - I had in mind that it would be possible to vote for the route creator in a single poll, but I guess if a huge number of people enter then we may need to have heats and ultimately a final, which would make it a little more fair.

Rockster - part of the idea is to encourage more small routes - as many of the routes currently available are large and require a large number of dependencies: not good for non-FCT people such as myself. Think of this as like creating a model railway. Think: What can I do with this small space which will give me hours of entertainment? It is not uncommon to compress several miles of track into about 1 scale mile, perhaps the same could be done here? The key thing I've tried to express is that to many people operational and entertainment value is more important then placing the buidings to within 1m of their real position (you'll come unstuck if you do this anyway, due to the curvature of the planet - explained elsewhere).

BidMod

 

[CoolMatty]

The idea of creating catagories interests me, especially a 100 baseboard idea - are you sure you typed that right LCH, because 15 - 100 is a big jump? I think shortening the tag to add to the description is definately a good idea though, since it would be easy to introduce a typo.

Will the categories be just baseboard sizes or versions of Trainz? (this next point may seem dumb but...) Aren't 06 layouts going to be more detailed due to the higher graphics quality with newer games? I could be wrong. I don't want to put the competition down. If it's not split categories I'll be fine with it. If there are different categories for 04 and 06 I could judge the 04... Just a thought.

CoolMatty

 

[BidMod]

I can't see a reason to segregate the layouts by size, however it may be necessary to split '06 and '04, but not because of detail levels. I believe these will be the same whether the user is using '04 or '06. It would simply be because '06 layouts won't open in '04 without config changes, and then looking through the assets to ensure you aren't using any '06 items. Thus, '06 layouts are disadvantaged, contrary to your view, as fewer people will be able to use them.

My entry would be an '06 entry, by the way.

More comments on this would be interesting, and also on the voting system. As far as I can see the poll idea is the better, but is this everyone's view?

BidMod.

 

[CoolMatty]

Thus, '06 layouts are disadvantaged, contrary to your view, as fewer people will be able to use them.

Said I might be wrong!

That's great. I think the poll voting is a good idea. Will the only votes come from the judges of the routes or will anyone vote? I could judge the 04 category if there is a place. If not I will enter. When will be the final closing date?

Great suggestion on the competition!

CoolMatty

 

[BidMod]

I think everyone should be able to vote in the competition whether they entered a layout or not. They'd even be able to vote for him/herself (before anyone questions that, just think - who does Tony Blair vote for?), though they don't have to.

Besides, in most voluntary polls only around 10% of people asked actually respond, and I guess the same is probably true here.

Maybe if the competition gets too big we'd need judges to decide a shortlist, but that may complicate things a little.

Keep those ideas flowing

BidMod.

 

[Lord-Claud-Hamilton]

The idea of creating catagories interests me, especially a 100 baseboard idea - are you sure you typed that right LCH, because 15 - 100 is a big jump? BidMod

Whoa....did I type 100 Baseboards? If so, then yes, it's a typo. Geeze, it takes me long enough to detail a ten baseboard map, let alone that many.

Having said that, now that I've looked, I can't find where I did post 100 BB's to correct it?

chris

 

[rockster]

I'd personally love to see a category for layouts no bigger than Five Grid squares by Twenty Grid Squares

Chris

hi, i think this is what he means, 5 x 20 = 100

not sure if hes joking or if he didnt understand your joke

 

[Lord-Claud-Hamilton]

hi, i think this is what he means, 5 x 20 = 100

Aha.....by Grid Square i meant the 10mtr x 10mtr squares you see in surveyor before ground texture is added. So, smaller than a single baseboard. Just like my Little How and Skinners Lane routes basically.

 

[CoolMatty]

This competition, what is happening about it? I'm certainly interested but I'd like to know the closing date (for definite) and the judging. I have suggestions:

1) A randomly selected group (who volunteer) judge each route in a category. Seperate judge groups for categories (e.g 04 and 06). They feed back through either email or a thread on the Forum anyone can read. They come up with a decision for a winner.

2) Closing Date not to be August. Being May now and an uncertainty on details could cause confusion. Maybe a deadline this year but something like November or something.

I hope I don't sound annoying.

CoolMatty

 

[BidMod]

1) A randomly selected group (who volunteer) judge each route in a category. Seperate judge groups for categories (e.g 04 and 06). They feed back through either email or a thread on the Forum anyone can read. They come up with a decision for a winner.

I'd like to keep the voting as open as possible, but we'll see what other people have to say about this.

2) Closing Date not to be August. Being May now and an uncertainty on details could cause confusion. Maybe a deadline this year but something like November or something.

I think this is a good idea. Some people will have finished by August, wheras other's won't and it is not fair to make people rush. We do need to finalize some details soon though I think, as you point out there could be some confusion.

I hope I don't sound annoying.

I appreciate the feedback. Without it, I could just set some rules and people would say "well I don't like your rules so I'll do my own thing". More feedback from a variety of people wanted

BidMod.

PS: apologies for the confusion about baseboard sizes - I see what you mean now
Actually, that's quite a good idea, if it weren't for the fact that the short portals cause all sorts of problems. It would certainly be a challenge - the station I built this afternoon is bigger than that.

 

[CoolMatty]

I'd like to keep the voting as open as possible, but we'll see what other people have to say about this.

It would require everyone to download the routes to make the voting fair. On the other hand everyone could vote. Tricky. In the actual thread you could have a list of the routes that have entered so you can direct people to them.

How 'bout that?

EDIT: Oh, what about a session or something to go with it. When answering the "poly" question you said about operations to keep it right. Also two criteria say entertainment and operational (no AI confusion). This surely would need a session to show these? Have I just complicated things?

CoolMatty

 

[BidMod]

9. Session also to be uploaded to demonstrate the layout's potential.

Already covered that one

Marking Criteria

1. Entertainment value - this is by far the most important
2. Operational potential
3. AI operation - does it operate without conflicts with each other etc.
4. Good use of space available to create a suitable landscape
5. Prototypical appearance - this does not mean the layout has to be modelled on a real place: this refers to aspects such as signal positions, track alignments, corner radii etc.

 

[CoolMatty]

I rekon I ask too many questions and I don't read things carefully.

How about a deadline of the end of November? 6 Months should be enough and it still is in 2007 .

Some people might like to use locos from freeware websites in their sessions. Although I do agree that DLS stuff should be used.

Is the competition on now?

CoolMatty

 

[BidMod]

I think it is wise to start building now, and I'll officially announce a competition if Alan can confirm that Auran will give away the FCT - I don't want people working towards an prize given by someone else, as I'd feel guilty if for some reason Auran weren't able to give it.

Just one thing to agree between ourselves though - how are we voting and how big can the layouts be?

My opinions - I like the poll idea, and I also would like to see 15 board layouts, however I acknowledge that some other users would like to see smaller projects. The only thing I would mention is that on a shunting layout the user would find it a challenge to create an AI session that correctly functions.

Strings has also pointed out that how could a prize be shared between team members? I think it is simplist if the team idea is dropped. Every trainzer for themself.

BidMod (who has also already started).

 

[CoolMatty]

How about a maximum board size? Maybe 15? or 20? Also a place where all the layout names are posted so Trainzers can check them out? This could have a description and links to save searching.

If the poll idea fails then what I said before could happen. It would have to be decided before the deadline so there is no-one who enters and ends up a judge.

Hmmm...

CoolMatty (waiting for DL helper to go faster)

 

[tommylommykins]

I have a couple of things to say:

1: I plan to enter

2: I would push for an end of June deadline: That's more than enough time to produce a good layout, and I think if we push the past kuju's release date, there'll be nobody left to join in.

3: I would say an absolute NO to four boards. For one thing that doesn't even cover the main station and associated yard of the route I plan to enter. it also does not tailor to a prototypical route 4 boards would barely cover two signal blocks, let alone proide enough space for a route. There is a big difference in the design of proto or semi-proto and 'model train' layouts. 15 boards, as originally specified, would hardly be enough for many a branchline (I would reccomend a limit of 45 for that), but would be a bit excessive for a 'model train' layout due to all the looping and doubling back that occurs in that style of route. My suggestion is an unlimited board size. The desire to keep quality high ought to prevent people from going OTT.


4: The 'poly' sugegstion, like the 'route length one' is probably to controlling IMO. I think it ought to be up to the route buildier to decide that's good and what isn't.

5: My suggestion about assets: I think it's easiest to allow any assets (since so much good stuff is not on it), but I think responsibility for finding non-dls assets should rest on the route builder. if the route builder is too lazy to point people to non-DLS stuff and make it easy for others to collect it, then it will be the route builder's fault for being lazy.


6: A stipulation that every individual asset must be downloadable without an FCT, since some people do not have them.

 

[Lord-Claud-Hamilton]

and I think if we push the past kuju's release date, there'll be nobody left to join in.

That comment has gone right over my head...what is kuju's please?