Club Car Members - NEW BETA 9/18/12

[RRSignal]

1. Product activation is defiantly in the future for it. Right now our goal is simplicity for the general user. Right now it will verify our products are already installed for updating purposes.

Ok, well, then, I will soon be an ex-customer of JointedRail. Do you have a timeframe? I assume the mandatory DRM/Product Activation will require internet access. Also, I amended my post to ask about multiple installations. Any word on this? Thanks for the prompt reply.

 

[opus722]

The build number for my Steam version of TS2010 is 43361. From what I understand it's more than SP2, but still missing stuff from SP3. I've had no issues whatsoever running JR content though so it should be otherwise compatible.

 

[HLJames]

Ok, well, then, I will soon be an ex-customer of JointedRail. Do you have a timeframe? Also, I amended my post to ask about multiple installations. Any word on this? Thanks for the prompt reply.

Same here, especially due to I'm a Mac user.

 

[jointedrail]

We will not be leaving anyone behind. There will still be the old way of getting the files and dependencies just for this reason. We're not forcing you to do anything, this is a BETA. A BETA is a test, this isn't set in stone, we're trying some options here.

Mike

 

[HLJames]

We will not be leaving anyone behind. There will still be the old way of getting the files and dependencies just for this reason. We're not forcing you to do anything, this is a BETA. A BETA is a test, this isn't set in stone, we're trying some options here.

Mike

Then how come this beta only seems to be available in just a .exe? I'm feeling ripped off just for that, even though I've technically got my moneys worth right now.

 

[RRSignal]

So, are you saying there will still be a method to get purchases in CDP form even AFTER the DRM scheme is finalized? I'm not just talking the beta period, but going forward?

Sean indicated that the ultimate goal is some form of Product Activation/DRM, which suggests otherwise.

 

[jointedrail]

You guys are waaay to quick to jump the gun. If you want to participate in the BETA great, that's what it's for, to test. The 3 pieces of content will be freeware when the route is released. If you don't want to BETA this, then don't. This is not a discussion about what if's or maybe's. This is a discussion on how the current BETA is working or not. Any other issues you may have or think you may have, we can discuss that via email.

Thank you.

 

[jointedrail]

Then how come this beta only seems to be available in just a .exe? I'm feeling ripped off just for that, even though I've technically got my moneys worth right now.

You're feeling ripped off because you are getting extra content for FREE during a BETA? I don't see how this is ripping you off in any way shape or form. Again this is a BETA TEST. You are not forced to participate.

 

[HLJames]

You guys are waaay to quick to jump the gun. If you want to participate in the BETA great, that's what it's for, to test. The 3 pieces of content will be freeware when the route is released. If you don't want to BETA this, then don't. This is not a discussion about what if's or maybe's. This is a discussion on how the current BETA is working or not. Any other issues you may have or think you may have, we can discuss that via email.

Thank you.

Sorry if I was a problem in any way, but how am I suppose to "BETA" the content if I can't install it due to the .exe? The first post makes it sound like you wanted the content tested but as a bonus it'd be nice for people to test the .exe installer - it wasn't worded in the way where you guys wanted both tested at the same time just one or the other if people could. Sorry once again, I can easily get confused sometimes.

EDIT: Excuse me, just saw the response to my post. Once again, I'm sorry, I just felt due to the previous content being available I'd be able to have this to test also. I'll move on now and let things develop. I've made the mistake of getting on the wagon of assuming before I should of.

 

[opus722]

On a more positive note the installer looks nice since I was expecting one of those spartan grey deals.

 

[jointedrail]

Sorry if I was a problem in any way, but how am I suppose to "BETA" the content if I can't install it due to the .exe? The first post makes it sound like you wanted the content tested but as a bonus it'd be nice for people to test the .exe installer - it wasn't worded in the way where you guys wanted both tested at the same time just one or the other if people could. Sorry once again, I can easily get confused sometimes.

EDIT: Excuse me, just saw the response to my post. Once again, I'm sorry, I just felt due to the previous content being available I'd be able to have this to test also. I'll move on now and let things develop.

This is from the original post:

Hey Guys!

More BETA stuff now in the Club Car section of the store for you. Today we are testing 2 things. First is the rolling stock we are planning to include on the Reading and Northern. Included is a 52ft Gondola, a Bethgon with gecko script, and a new ACF 3 Bay hopper in the R&N scheme.

THE REAL BETA:

What we're really testing here today is our new installers. We have created these installers so that when you download any Jointed Rail content the dependencies will also be installed with it. Gone are the days of buying an engine and then going to our store to search for any dependencies that you may need. Simply download and run the .exe and the installer should install everything for you without the need to touch or open CMP.

ANY AND ALL BUGS TO REPORT WITH THE INSTALLER ONLY: Please send us an email to sean@jointedrail.com

WHEN CONTACTING PLEASE INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:

Trainz Version:
Build #
Name
Username




Sean is our new full time programmer and will be working with us in the office on a day to day basis, we hope to be able to deliver some fantastic stuff with this ever expanding team.

Thanks and most of all.... ENJOY!

Jointed Rail

 

[spkelly86]

Justin will clerify

 

[spkelly86]

On a more positive note the installer looks nice since I was expecting one of those spartan grey deals.

lol thanks.

 

[HLJames]

Thanks jointedrail (Mike)

I understand the "real beta" part, it's just that my mind disconnected and thought you were saying about 2 different betas due to the mention of "testing 2 things" - could you emphasize what that part should of meant a little bit more if you don't mind?

 

[RRSignal]

The future of the installer would be connecting to the webserver after a purchase, inputting the confirmation number, and then the installer downloading the files and installing/committing them. Its more or less how it works now, except the installer downloads it. Maybe "product activation" isn't the right wording for it.

Sean

Yes, it's absolutely Product Activation/DRM, the wording is correct. Let's put it this way: If you go out of business or decide to stop approving future activations tomorrow, would people still be able to install the content 5 or 10 years from now? As it stands, I can download the CDPs I purchase and install them now, tomorrow pr 10 years from now, whether I have an internet connection or not. Seeing as almost all of the games/sims I run are over 10 years old and most are 20-30, it's a concern.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

I want to further expand on what has already been answered here.

1. Will this ultimately turn into a product activation-style DRM scheme? Exactly what does JR mean by saying this will incorporate "small part DRM"? If so, you can count me as an ex-JR customer right now, but I'd appreciate answers to the rest.

Not for all products being installed. There will be a future version of a generic content installer that will allow a customer to input their site details and gain access to all of the items they have purchased. This will not be sent with every purchase, but will be available on the site for those interested. The download sent via the purchase email will be an installer much like this one that does not do any network searching or downloading, it simply installs the product and all of it's required assets.

2. I run Trainz on a non-networked machine. Will the new content delivery method still work?

Yes, this is simply an installer for said content.

3. Does this new installer run once or is it installed as a service or resident program?

It only runs to install the content. Do what you wish after that, but as usual we recommend a backup of your purchase.

4. Does this new installer install some kind of validation code in Trainz itself, similar to WoT's Gatekeeper?

No. There are no plans to require a validation code in the game since we cannot predict how it will function in the future.

5. Do we have the option of disabling the search for any dependencies? I already have what is required installed.

There is no searching for dependencies or other network activity from this installer.

6. Can we still install to multiple installations of Trainz that we own? Will the installer work with installations that are copied i.e. don't have the proper Windows registry entries? (I have 3 TS2010 installations, 2 TS12 and two TS12 Beta's on two different computers. Only the betas are "official" since they were the last installed.)

The search for properly installed versions is simply for convenience. If you know the location of a Trainz install you wish to direct it to then do so. The content will however only install into Trainz builds that it recognizes as being compatible. This is obviously beneficial to us and the user since we do not need support emails about how installing the content into TC did not succeed.

7. What else does the installer do?

Nothing. It extracts data and installs it using the game's trainzutil.exe, and ensures it is committed properly.




Now to address Mac users: We will explore options for this platform as well, but you will not be left out. As Mike said, there was a lot of jumping the gun here.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Yes, it's absolutely Product Activation/DRM, the wording is correct. Let's put it this way: If you go out of business or decide to stop approving future activations tomorrow, would people still be able to install the content 5 or 10 years from now? As it stands, I can download the CDPs I purchase and install them now, tomorrow pr 10 years from now, whether I have an internet connection or not. Seeing as almost all of the games/sims I run are over 10 years old and most are 20-30, it's a concern.

Even more clarification:

There are 3 levels of installer planned with the intention of keeping things easy for the customer.

1. Content Installer (early version being tested here) - This will be fully self contained install package of the required files, requires no internet connection and can be used multiple times. This IS the content.

2. Update/Patch Installer - This will allow us to make major changes to content without actually redistributing a whole new installer with all of the content to everyone who has purchased it. There will be no product activation or anything like that, the only requirement is that the product being updated already exists in the current Trainz installation.

3. Download Manager - This will require the user to enter his/her site login details and retrieve a list of purchased items from our database. The user will then be able to select and install products from the list. This is the only version that will require any kind of user information (just like the site does) and also the only version that will contact JR over the internet to get any content. This version is still in the early planning stages and is still some time out.

 

[slabay]

WOW! I feel like I really kicked the hornet's nest here!!

I've been at it for over two years now in the Trainz community, and I still have my little snafus here and there. I bought your CR SD70MAC within the past two months or so and wasn't able to get it to work, downloaded the dependencies again, still couldn't get it to work, and if I recall correctly, the issue was not having the interior, which I was able to find, install, and get working. I consider myself a pretty experienced user, and it took a little chasing down of things to get everything working. I can imagine a new user's frustration, especially with a piece of payware, when they can't get it to work right.

After seeing countless threads in the forums "Jointed Rail Sucks!" "I HATE you guys!" "I'm going to sue you out of existence" and whatnot from these very sorts of people, who typically install, doesn't work, and get the flamethrower out from the closet, it is certainly understandable to make it an automatic process.

Although I've been too broke to make the jump onto the Club Car (my day will still come!), and I haven't actually been able to download and try this, I like that you guys have put it out to test like this. I'm glad I could have planted the bug in your ears to not forget about the Mac people, and I'm interested in seeing where this goes.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

There was never any intention of abandoning or forgetting about anyone. The only purpose here was testing a very early version of the content installer.

 

[muniman]

First shot at running it resulted in COMODO Firewall going nuts with warnings about the .exe attempting to access and modify various COM interfaces and registry keys. I trust that .exe, so I disabled COMODO and tried again without it. It worked smoothly until I hit "install". The program reached "Communicating with the Trainz Database [...]" and stayed there for half an hour before I shut it down via Windows Task Manager (the only way I could shut it down at all), when it gave me an "Unresponsive task" error.

That aside, I think this idea of creating a clean program that will install things for you with the target result of completely error-free content is wonderful, and could be groundbreaking if ironed out properly.