Circuit blocks and the latest update.

[UncleBuck]

I use interlocking towers and circuits a lot on the Oxford to Queens route and I noticed today that in the properties of circuit detectors and insulators there are many more options now.

Is there a breakdown of these and how to use them correctly?

Do these new options even work with interlocks?

Cheers

 

[pguy]

Hi.

I have done several tests using the new options available in the properties of track circuit detector and track circuit insulator and you will find here below how I think they are now working in TRS22 SP3 (no documentation already available from N3V - so the following clues are only what I have found during my tests and will need to be confirmed either by some N3V representative or by many other tests).

Now, in TRS22 SP3, any track circuit block is assigned two properties : a traffic type and a block type. These two properties value are choosen in the track circuit detector properties window and can receive the Following values :
- for traffic type, you can choose either "passenger trains" or "freight trains" or "any"
- for block type, you can choose either "main line" or "branch line" or "spur" or "yard - general" or "yard - receiving" or "yard - departure" or "yard - classification"
The default values for a new track circuit detector are traffic type = any and block type = branch line.

As before, the track circuit detector will create a track circuit block with the same traffic type and block type properties, expanding as before along the tracks from the track circuit detector until it reaches a track insulator. But the change is that now it will end only when reaching a matching track insulator (matching either the traffic type value or the block type value). A track insulator not matching both the traffic type and the block type value will be ignored and the track circuit block will expand beside the not matching track insulator.
The track insulator has now a property window where you can enable or disable which traffic type values and block type values track circuit block will be terminated by this track insulator (one checkbox for each properties possible values to enable or disable track circuit block termination for this property value).

This means that track circuit block are now in TRS22 SP3 categorized through the traffic type and block type you choose and will end only when encountering a matching track circuit insulator.
This means also that you can have several track circuit blocks with distinct properties that can overlap. For example, you can set a first track circuit block for passenger trains - mainline using insulators enabled only for passenger trains and have a second track circuit block freight trains - mainline limited this time by insulators enabled only for freight trains.

Having now categorized train circuit blocks that can overlap when using distinct properties values will open certainly some new possibilities whose interest remains to be evaluated.

About consequences on EITs, EITs have been designed from the begining to support multiple track circuits blocks. So for example if you have a path with exit signal TCB enabled, if there are several TCBs embedding the exit signal the EIT will check all the embedding exit signal TCBs and will allow path activation only if ALL embedding TCBs are unoccuppied whatever type is the train requesting the path ...

Just so far how I think and believe new TCBs properties values are working in TRS22 SP3.

Regards.
Pierre.

 

[UncleBuck]

Thanks for taking the time to do a bit of investigation into this.

I thought it may have been something along those lines but I have not had the chance to test it all out.

One thing I have worked out though is that TLR did not like that way I had all my interlocks set up and consists were constantly getting stuck.

For now I have removed all interlocks as TLR is a great way to test all the industries and lines on the route are working as expected without having to do step by step AI schedules.

I know this is only Phase 1 for TLR and it still has a LONG way to go, but for testing purposes it has been great so far.

Once again, thanks for checking this out for me.

Cheers.
Colin

 

[cooper_engineer]

This means that track circuit block are now in TRS22 SP3 categorized through the traffic type and block type you choose and will end only when encountering a matching track circuit insulator.
This means also that you can have several track circuit blocks with distinct properties that can overlap. For example, you can set a first track circuit block for passenger trains - mainline using insulators enabled only for passenger trains and have a second track circuit block freight trains - mainline limited this time by insulators enabled only for freight trains.

Having now categorized train circuit blocks that can overlap when using distinct properties values will open certainly some new possibilities whose interest remains to be evaluated.

Very interesting.
In reality, do TCB work like this or is it a function created in Trainz to allow certain operating logics?

 

[bcesarec]

Very interesting.
In reality, do TCB work like this or is it a function created in Trainz to allow certain operating logics?

Real life track curcuit uses either voltage or audio frequencies. If it's voltage, you can't overlap them as circuit is either opened (electricty flows) or closed (electricty doesn't flow).
If it's AF, it can use multiple frequencies and each one represents different circuit, but you still wouldn't like to have them overalped. AF is used because it's the only way to have track circuit on the tracks which are continuoulsy welded and this is today's standard in Europe. You can't have insulated sections on continuously welded tracks.
If you need to cover a track and use it as 2 circuits for passanger train and 1 as cargo (they are longer), you just program the signaling system in such way that it can enable so-called short entry into the station (where you occupy just 1 circuit and the other one can be used by other tran) and long entry where both are occupied.

Good question is how to do this in Trainz. I think EIT path's can't overlap so you can't have path A-B-C which would be short entry and A-B-C-D which would be long entry.

 

[JCitron]

Real life track curcuit uses either voltage or audio frequencies. If it's voltage, you can't overlap them as circuit is either opened (electricty flows) or closed (electricty doesn't flow).
If it's AF, it can use multiple frequencies and each one represents different circuit, but you still wouldn't like to have them overalped. AF is used because it's the only way to have track circuit on the tracks which are continuoulsy welded and this is today's standard in Europe. You can't have insulated sections on continuously welded tracks.
If you need to cover a track and use it as 2 circuits for passanger train and 1 as cargo (they are longer), you just program the signaling system in such way that it can enable so-called short entry into the station (where you occupy just 1 circuit and the other one can be used by other tran) and long entry where both are occupied.

Good question is how to do this in Trainz. I think EIT path's can't overlap so you can't have path A-B-C which would be short entry and A-B-C-D which would be long entry.

The way you described it, this is how more model railroads work. We have the old-fashioned block-system with switches to connect power to the various insulated blocks, or the new DCC system that uses a coded audio frequency to contact specific locomotive given a code number that matches the one sent from the controller. In real life, they still do use insulated track sections in some locations. I saw some not long ago on my local rail line. They were slips of plastic set between the rails, fishplates and joiners. I thought they looked similar to the old plastic ones from Atlas Model Railroad Co.

 

[bcesarec]

The way you described it, this is how more model railroads work. We have the old-fashioned block-system with switches to connect power to the various insulated blocks, or the new DCC system that uses a coded audio frequency to contact specific locomotive given a code number that matches the one sent from the controller. In real life, they still do use insulated track sections in some locations. I saw some not long ago on my local rail line. They were slips of plastic set between the rails, fishplates and joiners. I thought they looked similar to the old plastic ones from Atlas Model Railroad Co.

You might be right for some countries. But in Europe you will only find non-wlded tracks on some old branch lines and they use some ancient signaling system or no signaling at all.
If the track is welded, nothing else than AF works.
Alstom's solution is quit often used in Europe. There's also ISKRA, SEL and so on.
Nearly every manufactured of signaling system, level-crossing protection systems, interlocking systems and so on also produces devices to check occupancy of track section.
Some also use axel counting.

 

[JCitron]

You might be right for some countries. But in Europe you will only find non-wlded tracks on some old branch lines and they use some ancient signaling system or no signaling at all.
If the track is welded, nothing else than AF works.
Alstom's solution is quit often used in Europe. There's also ISKRA, SEL and so on.
Nearly every manufactured of signaling system, level-crossing protection systems, interlocking systems and so on also produces devices to check occupancy of track section.
Some also use axel counting.

The mainlines in the US and Canada are being updated to the PTC, or Positive Train Control which uses a radio frequency to control the trains, signals, and other equipment. Our crossings, except for old branch line level-crossings, have used circuit detection through magnets or radio frequency for years. PTC is similar if not the same as used in Europe today.

There was much pushback when this was proposed and forced on the railroads for safety. The pushback came through our congress as they fought the law being put in place due to the railroads not wanting to spend money on the upgrades. Today, they are now reluctantly installing the system because they were given so many years to do it and the time is now up. My local commuter rail organization, MBTA was one of the first to implement PTC and now they are upgrading that to a different system but it's the same but better in some way I don't recall.

Coming from an electronics engineering and technician background, I find this technology very fascinating. Pierre's implementation of this technology in software is amazing how it works.

 

[cooper_engineer]

... If I'm not mistaken in Europe the system is called ETCS (European Train Control System)