Canadian Pacific Signals

[HSSRAIL]

Canadian Pacific Railroad uses GCOR and there signals incorporate route signaling.

Route Signaling means that the highest speed route set gets the top signal head at a crossover this works out as follows:

Green over Red over Red - Going Strait down the mainline
Red over Green - Diverging Clear going thru crossover at maximum speed permitted by turnout.

Red over Red over Lunar - Going into a yard track restricted speed.

Yellow over Yellow - Approach Diverging be prepared to go thru a diverging route at the next signal.

Flashing Yellow: Advanced Approach be prepared to pass next signal at a speed not exceeding 40 mph.

Yellow - Be prepared to stop at next signal trains exceeding 40 mph must reduce to that speed immediately.

Red - No number plate Stop and Stay "Absolute" Number Plate block signal proceed at restricted speed.

Combination

Red over flashing Yellow - Diverging Advanced Approach--proceed onto diverging route at maximum permissible speed thru turnouts than do not pass next signal at a speed exceeding 40 mph.

 

[007007]

You forgot Approach Restricting. Yellow over Lunar.

A lunar signal does not always mean you are going into a yard. You can also get it when track ahead is occupied past a control point but the dispatcher cleared you anyway. Some controlled sidings also will not give you a signal better than Restricting when entering it. Why, I couldn't tell you.

 

[HSSRAIL]

The concept being conveyed is that the signal authorizing movement as it moves down on the mast means a more unfavorable route.

The approach restricting aspect was not necessary with explaining the concept of route signaling. I kept it simple.

Some controlled sidings have no track circuiting because of this trains must enter them at restricting speed.

Howard

 

[007007]

Howard.... HSS? I get it.... :wave: Cheers from an ex CP!

 

[TorenHynes]

Man, that's a lot of signal combinations to remember!

 

[REFJR2]

A Lunar aspect is called a “restricting” indication, “proceed at restricted speed”.

Now if someone could make a signal like this for Trainz ?!

(Red,Yellow,Green,Lunar)

or like these:

http://www.navpooh.com/signals.html

Rule 289 (Permissive) : Proceed at slow speed, approaching next signal at slow speed.

Rule 289a (Medium Permissive) : Proceed at slow speed, approaching next signal at slow speed.

Rule 290 (Restricting) : Proceed at restricted speed until entire train passes next signal.

 

[mhicaso]

I run in dark territory on the CP, CTC candian rules on the CN,and Norac CTC rules on the CSX and NS. I like the dark territory much better than the CTC, it is alot less stressful.

 

[REFJR2]

I run in dark territory on the CP, CTC candian rules on the CN,and Norac CTC rules on the CSX and NS. I like the dark territory much better than the CTC, it is alot less stressful.

but how do you deal with opposing AI trains in dark territory ?

 

[mhicaso]

No A.I. trains in the real world.

 

[REFJR2]

No A.I. trains in the real world.

sorry,

what I was asking is in Trainz how dow you deal with A.I. trains in dark territory ?

would not that result is LESS trains in a given strech of track ?
(dark territory vs CTC)

 

[djt]

and Norac CTC rules on the CSX and NS.

That’s interesting seeing as CSXT ditched NORAC back in late 2004 and NS shortly after that?

I like the dark territory much better than the CTC, it is alot less stressful.

So the possibility of coming up on a open switch or broken rail (as just two examples) in TWC without any warning is less stressful then having a signal system that can warn you ahead of time of the block condition ahead?

 

[mhicaso]

In Buffalo terminal we are still given NORAC classes. Athough the CSX has informed us that it intends to change by summer 2012, and they will give new training before the change. As for the dark vs CTC, yes I perfer the dark, and about 95% of the people who work in my terminal would say the same. Alot of the people who have moved to other terminals with CTC, say they miss the dark terrritory. ABS or CTC gives a false sense of security when it comes to broken rails. All of the major derailments caused by broken rails in this area since I have started with CP have occured in CTC or ABS with the train entering on a clear signal, because although broken the rail did not contract enough to seperate completely, so the signal system is not effected. Because in dark territory we do not have that false sense of security, we are always on the lookout for other signs of a broken rail. CTC is great for track that see's alot of train traffic, but for our terminal that only gets 6-8 trains a day, we like the dark.

 

[djt]

As for the dark vs CTC, yes I perfer the dark, and about 95% of the people who work in my terminal would say the same. Alot of the people who have moved to other terminals with CTC, say they miss the dark terrritory. ABS or CTC gives a false sense of security when it comes to broken rails.

It’s much better than no protection at all. I’ve operated trains in ABS/CTC, Cab Signal and in TWC as well as dispatched trains in CTC and TWC (under GCOR, NORAC and CSXT operating rules) and without a doubt TWC is obviously a lot more open to human error then ABS/CTC.

Strictly relying on what amounts to nothing more than verbal permission for movement authority in TWC is a false sense of security in itself.

All of the major derailments caused by broken rails in this area since I have started with CP have occured in CTC or ABS with the train entering on a clear signal, because although broken the rail did not contract enough to seperate completely, so the signal system is not effected.

What was the traffic volume on this section CTC/ABS compared to the amount of traffic running over the TWC that didn’t see any derailments?

Because in dark territory we do not have that false sense of security, we are always on the lookout for other signs of a broken rail.

Your false sense of security is the reliance of what comes down to nothing more than verbal permission from the dispatcher in TWC. I’m not sure how effective looking out for broken rail and switches in TWC at 30-49 MPH is with 10,000 tons behind you, lol.

 

[evan123]

In Buffalo terminal we are still given NORAC classes. Athough the CSX has informed us that it intends to change by summer 2012, and they will give new training before the change. As for the dark vs CTC, yes I perfer the dark, and about 95% of the people who work in my terminal would say the same. Alot of the people who have moved to other terminals with CTC, say they miss the dark terrritory. ABS or CTC gives a false sense of security when it comes to broken rails. All of the major derailments caused by broken rails in this area since I have started with CP have occured in CTC or ABS with the train entering on a clear signal, because although broken the rail did not contract enough to seperate completely, so the signal system is not effected. Because in dark territory we do not have that false sense of security, we are always on the lookout for other signs of a broken rail. CTC is great for track that see's alot of train traffic, but for our terminal that only gets 6-8 trains a day, we like the dark.

<<<<Is on the CP Portal Sub.

 

[evan123]

Your false sense of security is the reliance of what comes down to nothing more than verbal permission from the dispatcher in TWC. I’m not sure how effective looking out for broken rail and switches in TWC at 30-49 MPH is with 10,000 tons behind you, lol.

We have dispatchers that from time to time give out the wrong TW# and/or void out the warrant while it's still in effect.. Human error is an occurrence. Plus TWC allows for you to take naps on the sidings, whereas CTC/ABS you have to stay awake for the signal indication. (Guess a plus/minus for each)

 

[djt]

We have dispatchers that from time to time give out the wrong TW# and/or void out the warrant while it's still in effect.. Human error is an occurrence.

It’s happened in a lot of other dispatching offices also (just take a look through the NTSB/FRA incident reports). I actually dispatched from the Minneapolis office (including time on the Dakota desks) that you take your track warrants from.

Plus TWC allows for you to take naps on the sidings, whereas CTC/ABS you have to stay awake for the signal indication. (Guess a plus/minus for each)

When I was in train service I never got in any more nap time in TWC territory then I did in ABS/CTC or Cab Signal territory. You still have stay awake and alert during meets in TWC with opposing traffic (especially when the warrant involves an “After Arrival Of”), hardly an example of a good time to take a nap, lol.


When I worked third trick as a dispatcher I would actually tell a crew that I would be taking them at a particular control point after a long wait in the siding just as a wake up call.