johnwhelan
Well-known member
Set back the viewing distance to one km, same as TRS2004 and using the same content you should get at least as good a frame rate with TS2010 as TRS2004 with the same content in native mode if not better.
Cheerio John
Campaign to retain full DLS for TRS2004/06
- Thread starter mezzoprezzo
- Start date
- Status
Set back the viewing distance to one km, same as TRS2004 and using the same content you should get at least as good a frame rate with TS2010 as TRS2004 with the same content in native mode if not better.
Cheerio John
Gandalf0444
FVRR member
Very much agreed
I'm not buying a car, I'm buying a train sim. But if we're taking orders a '69 Camaro convertable for me please.
Lets see a new Subaru hold that kind of resale.
I can understand a lot of the moving on posts. But, not everyone's first exposure to this sim is on the internet. I happened on it by chance in a store. I saw a copy of 06 in a bin this last Christmas while out shopping and 04, 06 and TC where available on the Auran site AFTER this announcement came out, right along with 09 and 10. There are still threads coming up recently of people buying 06 still. They are still on the shelves in some places.
If Auran quit selling these quite some time ago, I could see it. But, they continued selling the soon to be unsupported versions after announcing the cut off date for them within six months. With so many copies of older versions for sale is it wise to cut support for them so soon. If my first exposure was buying one of these new in a store only to find out they were unsupported what do you think the chances of my buying another would be.
I don't think this thread was started as a which is better discussion, that is all personal opinion. It's about access. That doesn't just include old hats but new comers as well, the ones still buying the older versions because they still are available as well as buyers of 10.
For everyone happy with 2010, enjoy. For everyone happy with 04/06TC, enjoy. If you check your passion at the door and take an impartial look at what is happening you may see it may have an effect on everyone. Ask the kids over at Railworks about MSTS. That old unsupported dinosaur is still keeping quite a few away from buying RW.
Dave......
Lets see a new Subaru hold that kind of resale.I can understand a lot of the moving on posts. But, not everyone's first exposure to this sim is on the internet. I happened on it by chance in a store. I saw a copy of 06 in a bin this last Christmas while out shopping and 04, 06 and TC where available on the Auran site AFTER this announcement came out, right along with 09 and 10. There are still threads coming up recently of people buying 06 still. They are still on the shelves in some places.
If Auran quit selling these quite some time ago, I could see it. But, they continued selling the soon to be unsupported versions after announcing the cut off date for them within six months. With so many copies of older versions for sale is it wise to cut support for them so soon. If my first exposure was buying one of these new in a store only to find out they were unsupported what do you think the chances of my buying another would be.
I don't think this thread was started as a which is better discussion, that is all personal opinion. It's about access. That doesn't just include old hats but new comers as well, the ones still buying the older versions because they still are available as well as buyers of 10.
For everyone happy with 2010, enjoy. For everyone happy with 04/06TC, enjoy. If you check your passion at the door and take an impartial look at what is happening you may see it may have an effect on everyone. Ask the kids over at Railworks about MSTS. That old unsupported dinosaur is still keeping quite a few away from buying RW.
Dave......
If it comes out of a bargain bin it gets no support .. And you've no need to read anything into my opinion of some clown that spends $10 ( more or less ) and then expects full support ..... Caveat Emptor :hehe:
Sci
meatloaf747
Spotter...
Up until now I have been able to resist posting in this thread. - Can't resist any longer...
The 2004 verses the rest debate will go on forever. (well, at-least till September anyway)... Those that love 04 and want to say with it, great, you'll always be part of the community and good luck to you...
Fortunately most of the rest of Trainz community/addicts want to move forward with the times. I applaud NV3/Auran with cutting off support for earlier versions (later on this year).
They have to make some not so pleasant decisions that will undoubtedly improve there chances of staying in business. Decisions that will hopefully ensure that new sales will continues to bring in the revenue so that Trainz's continues to get developed.
What alot of the community doesn't seem to understand is that NV3 could close down the development of Trainz overnight. (If it's no longer profitable, why wouldn't they)? MS did and they are turning over 13 - 14 billion per year...
NV3 could lay off all there programmers and half there support staff and still stay in business. NV3 are now distributing a large number of other gaming titles and would survive. (Yes, that right!!! Would survive!!! It maybe even be more profitable to the shareholders if NV3 ran a leaner business model). If you have ever been in business, you'll know exactly what I mean by this.
The only way Trainz is going to survive is if enough people purchase the latest additions (& FCT's) to warrant it's continuing development. At the end of the day NV3 is a business. Any business needs continual cash flow to cover there (normally) high overheads (wages, etc, etc) to stay in business.
I don't mind hardcore 04 fanatic knocking 09/2010 if they has purchased 09 or 010 and for whatever reason don't like it, (and gone back to 04). At-least they have supported NV3/Auran. What really pisses me off is the 04 fanatic's that are always knocking 09/10 at every opportunity and yet haven't bothered to purchase either of them.
Part of NV3/Auran problem is that some of the 04 fanatic's purchased "04" six years ago. They have never brought an other version of Trainz. They have never brought a FCT, yet continue to bludge off the rest of us that regularly buy the latest versions (and FCT's). They just continue to download there 100 megs per day and expect the rest of us to buy FCT's and latest versions so that NV3/Auran have the financial resources to stay in business...
I loved 04 when it came out. (buggy, but an improvement over UTC). I loved it even more when SP4 was issued. Moved onto 06 when it was launched and loved it once SP1 came out. (warts & all).
Brought TC1 & 2. Felt a bit short changed. Brought TC3 & loved it. (great value). Then brought 09 and was a little disappointed. Spent my time 60/40 between 06/09 until TS2010 came out. Service packs have greatly improved 09, but I still feel another SP (or two) is still required.
Then brought TS2010 SP1 and love it. (from day one). Put simply, the best version of Trainz to date. Without question, IMHO...
Imported some large layouts from 06/09 and are getting much better frame rates in 2010... (As far as I'm concerned, if TS2010 doesn't unite the Trainz community, nothing will)...
The main point of my post; All those 2004 diehards. Why don't you download all the UTC, 04 & 06 stuff you want between now and September this year. That way, no matter what changes come in September (if any) you will have all the earlier content that you want, already downloaded.
NV3 have given you plenty of time to download what you want. Anybody with any common sense knows the DLS needs a good clean-out. (long overdue). Particularly alot of that SP3, UTC, 04 stuff that is showing up as faulty and in a lot of cases outdated. (rolling stock, no moving bogeys, cars with pencil thin wheels, etc, etc)...
How much is eventually cleaned out seem to be what's up for debate.
Personally I would like to see anything that was made for the earlier versions of Trainz that shows up with faults in TS2010 either fixed or delete. If some of the original creators don't want to repair there faulty content, that's fine. Either let someone like Ian Woodhouse or other great content repairers fix their creations, still giving credit to the original creator or ask for the FAULTY stuff to be deleted/removed...
Credit should still go to the original creator. Eg; Originally created by Jo Blobs. Repaired to 2010 standards by Bill Smith...
Just imagine, a DLS with no faulty old content and with everything able to work/run in TS2010 "Native Mode" - I'm very optimistic that it will happen. I'd like to see more of the community with half full glasses, rather than half empty glasses...
My two penny's worth.
Cheers, Mac...
The 2004 verses the rest debate will go on forever. (well, at-least till September anyway)... Those that love 04 and want to say with it, great, you'll always be part of the community and good luck to you...
Fortunately most of the rest of Trainz community/addicts want to move forward with the times. I applaud NV3/Auran with cutting off support for earlier versions (later on this year).
They have to make some not so pleasant decisions that will undoubtedly improve there chances of staying in business. Decisions that will hopefully ensure that new sales will continues to bring in the revenue so that Trainz's continues to get developed.
What alot of the community doesn't seem to understand is that NV3 could close down the development of Trainz overnight. (If it's no longer profitable, why wouldn't they)? MS did and they are turning over 13 - 14 billion per year...
NV3 could lay off all there programmers and half there support staff and still stay in business. NV3 are now distributing a large number of other gaming titles and would survive. (Yes, that right!!! Would survive!!! It maybe even be more profitable to the shareholders if NV3 ran a leaner business model). If you have ever been in business, you'll know exactly what I mean by this.
The only way Trainz is going to survive is if enough people purchase the latest additions (& FCT's) to warrant it's continuing development. At the end of the day NV3 is a business. Any business needs continual cash flow to cover there (normally) high overheads (wages, etc, etc) to stay in business.
I don't mind hardcore 04 fanatic knocking 09/2010 if they has purchased 09 or 010 and for whatever reason don't like it, (and gone back to 04). At-least they have supported NV3/Auran. What really pisses me off is the 04 fanatic's that are always knocking 09/10 at every opportunity and yet haven't bothered to purchase either of them.
Part of NV3/Auran problem is that some of the 04 fanatic's purchased "04" six years ago. They have never brought an other version of Trainz. They have never brought a FCT, yet continue to bludge off the rest of us that regularly buy the latest versions (and FCT's). They just continue to download there 100 megs per day and expect the rest of us to buy FCT's and latest versions so that NV3/Auran have the financial resources to stay in business...
I loved 04 when it came out. (buggy, but an improvement over UTC). I loved it even more when SP4 was issued. Moved onto 06 when it was launched and loved it once SP1 came out. (warts & all).
Brought TC1 & 2. Felt a bit short changed. Brought TC3 & loved it. (great value). Then brought 09 and was a little disappointed. Spent my time 60/40 between 06/09 until TS2010 came out. Service packs have greatly improved 09, but I still feel another SP (or two) is still required.
Then brought TS2010 SP1 and love it. (from day one). Put simply, the best version of Trainz to date. Without question, IMHO...
Imported some large layouts from 06/09 and are getting much better frame rates in 2010... (As far as I'm concerned, if TS2010 doesn't unite the Trainz community, nothing will)...
The main point of my post; All those 2004 diehards. Why don't you download all the UTC, 04 & 06 stuff you want between now and September this year. That way, no matter what changes come in September (if any) you will have all the earlier content that you want, already downloaded.
NV3 have given you plenty of time to download what you want. Anybody with any common sense knows the DLS needs a good clean-out. (long overdue). Particularly alot of that SP3, UTC, 04 stuff that is showing up as faulty and in a lot of cases outdated. (rolling stock, no moving bogeys, cars with pencil thin wheels, etc, etc)...
How much is eventually cleaned out seem to be what's up for debate.
Personally I would like to see anything that was made for the earlier versions of Trainz that shows up with faults in TS2010 either fixed or delete. If some of the original creators don't want to repair there faulty content, that's fine. Either let someone like Ian Woodhouse or other great content repairers fix their creations, still giving credit to the original creator or ask for the FAULTY stuff to be deleted/removed...
Credit should still go to the original creator. Eg; Originally created by Jo Blobs. Repaired to 2010 standards by Bill Smith...
Just imagine, a DLS with no faulty old content and with everything able to work/run in TS2010 "Native Mode" - I'm very optimistic that it will happen. I'd like to see more of the community with half full glasses, rather than half empty glasses...
My two penny's worth.
Cheers, Mac...
Last edited:
Are you inferring that Auran are responsible for this in some way ???
Yes. I believe that they were selling the soon to be unsupported products at their online store until just a short while ago.
And that clown bins Trainz never to return. Some clowns were even able to buy it off of Auran's online bargain bin up until less than two months ago. I'm sure it came with a warning about cutting off support for it shortly. I'm also sure stores didn't just happen to find a pile buried in the back somewhere.
Once again access is confused with support. The question was asked is it wise to cut that access off so soon after that product still being available from Auran's site and still available in stores. Sales weren't cut off years ago even for 04.
Dave......
Once again access is confused with support. The question was asked is it wise to cut that access off so soon after that product still being available from Auran's site and still available in stores. Sales weren't cut off years ago even for 04.
Dave......
you missed this bit
Originally Posted by sparky15
There are still threads coming up recently of people buying 06 still. They are still on the shelves in some places.
Maybe you'd like to speak to the Publishers in the US about their contractual arrangements re: the sales of Trainz .
Sci
Ah , but I do realize , I simply don't care
Anyone to stupid or too lazy to check on the requirements for , or level of support they will receive for the software they intend to purchase deserve all they get . It's not my responsibility to handhold these people ... you are responsible for your own actions . I'm also not here to see the money I spend not put to what I consider good use i.e. the improvment of Trainz simply because some people can't afford to upgrade . Sci
gremlin1812
New member
G’Day All, The big question seems to be TRS2010 or not, well I have a P4 (single core*) 3.0ghz with 2 gig of ram and a Nvidia GeForce 6200 (AGP* 256meg), XP SP3 and yes I have the latest Nvidia drivers etc bla bla bla.
TRS2010 runs like a slide show any way you configure it and with the sliders turned right down it’s a slide show with little scenery until it pops out in front of you. I am lucky that a friend who has it came around and let me test it in my PC just to see.
Auran’s minimum recommended is: - XP (SP3) 1 GB RAM, Pentium D 3.4GHz, nVidia GeForce 7200/128MB.
The Pentium D is a dual-core* 64-bit x86 processors with the NetBurst microarchitecture.
The GeForce 7200 has Bus Technology PCI* Express Memory Interface 64-bit.
THAT is minimum recommended and I would suggest it is minimum.
To anyone thinking of getting TRS2010 I would suggest you first check your PC specs with Auran’s minimum (all this information is available on the net just use google) and make your decision from there as you could be mislead by some of the pro TRS2010ers even if they mean well, at the end of the day it is you decision and your money.
To find your PC specs go to start > run and type in DXDIAG and click on OK, the first tab has info on the operating system, processor and ram. The third tab has your video information.
Hope this allows some to make an informed decision as to their PC suitability.
Regards
Barrie
TRS2010 runs like a slide show any way you configure it and with the sliders turned right down it’s a slide show with little scenery until it pops out in front of you. I am lucky that a friend who has it came around and let me test it in my PC just to see.
Auran’s minimum recommended is: - XP (SP3) 1 GB RAM, Pentium D 3.4GHz, nVidia GeForce 7200/128MB.
The Pentium D is a dual-core* 64-bit x86 processors with the NetBurst microarchitecture.
The GeForce 7200 has Bus Technology PCI* Express Memory Interface 64-bit.
THAT is minimum recommended and I would suggest it is minimum.
To anyone thinking of getting TRS2010 I would suggest you first check your PC specs with Auran’s minimum (all this information is available on the net just use google) and make your decision from there as you could be mislead by some of the pro TRS2010ers even if they mean well, at the end of the day it is you decision and your money.
To find your PC specs go to start > run and type in DXDIAG and click on OK, the first tab has info on the operating system, processor and ram. The third tab has your video information.
Hope this allows some to make an informed decision as to their PC suitability.
Regards
Barrie
Kinda bringing this back up, but for all of you saying Auran/etc should just flat out drop support of 04/06...
Just over 3,000 people (that seriously use this forum) out of over 300,000 is not a lot. (Basic Math here fellas.
)
Can you imagine being one of the HUGE chunk of 297,000 people that bought Trainz 04/06, that wake up, turn their PC on one day in September, and find they can't Download Anything?
And Fancy this - You join the forum and ask for help, and instead get:
'Oh sorry, we don't support that Ancient thing anymore - Would you rather buy this Shiny, Buggy new version that you don't want instead?'
And please. Stop comparing a Train game to a Buying a Car. That's like beating a rock with a stick. It doesn't accomplish anything.
Just over 3,000 people (that seriously use this forum) out of over 300,000 is not a lot. (Basic Math here fellas.
)Can you imagine being one of the HUGE chunk of 297,000 people that bought Trainz 04/06, that wake up, turn their PC on one day in September, and find they can't Download Anything?
And Fancy this - You join the forum and ask for help, and instead get:
'Oh sorry, we don't support that Ancient thing anymore - Would you rather buy this Shiny, Buggy new version that you don't want instead?'
And please. Stop comparing a Train game to a Buying a Car. That's like beating a rock with a stick. It doesn't accomplish anything.
Retro00064
New member
Poster's Note: the below quote is from the original thread on this subject over in the Content Creation Support forum (here). I originally meant to post this reply in that thread some time ago, but discussion seems to have moved here, so thus I am posting here instead.
Now there's something that makes sense. It's just like I said before: There is a difference between technical support and a file hosting service like the DLS.
It seems that, from what I have been reading, some of what has been going on in these two threads is an argument, between users of TC and later (who aren't really going to get affected in September), and users of TRS2006 and earlier, who will be affected (i.e. kicked out of uploading to the DLS). It's a war of opinions it seems, with the non-affected users (especially users of TS2009 and TS2010 it seems) going on about how good the new versions are, and stuff that looks like it basically means "Why do you other users refuse to upgrade? I don't see what is wrong with the latest version of Trainz", while we 'heritage' users (what I will call users who have TRS2006 or earlier), and probably some right-minded TC+ users too, try to distribute some common sense that all you users of the latest version of Trainz have your own game and your own opinion about it. That's fine. But please don't try to put us down in any way just because we either can not or don't want to upgrade. We have our own game and our own opinion about it.
All that can really be said is that Auran is making a bad move in respect of the community. The DLS will lose a lot of its usefulness. For users with the latest version of Trainz, life just goes on normally. Users of TRS06 and earlier, however, will be kicked out of uploading their creations to the DLS, and will therefore have to find somewhere else to distribute their content (best case scenario), or just quit creating content altogether (worst case scenario). The TPR Download Depot is one place for users to upload their content other than the DLS, but there are alternatives, such as a user's own website, etc.
And that really is pretty much all that can be said about this subject. Now, about this petitioning-Auran-to-allow-TRS06-and-earlier-users-to-upload-to-the-DLS stuff. I know there are lots of users who are fond of the DLS, but why make Auran rich, and even more hungry for your dollars, just to be able to upload TRS06 and earlier stuff, when there are alternatives such as the TPR Download Depot and free websites? Sure, there would probably not be the functionality to automatically find & download most of the dependencies for a layout, like there is on the DLS, but it should be up to the layout builder's responsibility to link people to all the third party dependencies required by the layout. Just as it is with DLS layouts that also require non-DLS dependencies. I'm not against petitioning, but do it the right way.
So please, guys. Please end this pointless argument between TC+ and TRS06/earlier users. It really is pointless. And if there are any of you TC+ users who are in denial of that fact, then don't post anything unless it's not criticizing us in any way about our opinion on the game versions. That's the right-minded way of doing it.
As for any users who say they may quit content creation if this problem does occur in September, please don't go. Upload your stuff to the TPR DL Depot or set up your own free website and upload there. Notify people of your new stuff and where to get it here on the forums, and just let life go on.
So let us just hope that Auran will muster up enough right-minded thinking to change their mind. We can protest, but no guarantee it will work. (Why is it that almost every company I ever see has greedy, selfish businesspeople running it?)
So there. This may seem like quite a large reply, but all I'm trying to do is to make some sense, and put a stop to the pointless arguing.
Regards.
Now there's something that makes sense. It's just like I said before: There is a difference between technical support and a file hosting service like the DLS.
It seems that, from what I have been reading, some of what has been going on in these two threads is an argument, between users of TC and later (who aren't really going to get affected in September), and users of TRS2006 and earlier, who will be affected (i.e. kicked out of uploading to the DLS). It's a war of opinions it seems, with the non-affected users (especially users of TS2009 and TS2010 it seems) going on about how good the new versions are, and stuff that looks like it basically means "Why do you other users refuse to upgrade? I don't see what is wrong with the latest version of Trainz", while we 'heritage' users (what I will call users who have TRS2006 or earlier), and probably some right-minded TC+ users too, try to distribute some common sense that all you users of the latest version of Trainz have your own game and your own opinion about it. That's fine. But please don't try to put us down in any way just because we either can not or don't want to upgrade. We have our own game and our own opinion about it.
All that can really be said is that Auran is making a bad move in respect of the community. The DLS will lose a lot of its usefulness. For users with the latest version of Trainz, life just goes on normally. Users of TRS06 and earlier, however, will be kicked out of uploading their creations to the DLS, and will therefore have to find somewhere else to distribute their content (best case scenario), or just quit creating content altogether (worst case scenario). The TPR Download Depot is one place for users to upload their content other than the DLS, but there are alternatives, such as a user's own website, etc.
And that really is pretty much all that can be said about this subject. Now, about this petitioning-Auran-to-allow-TRS06-and-earlier-users-to-upload-to-the-DLS stuff. I know there are lots of users who are fond of the DLS, but why make Auran rich, and even more hungry for your dollars, just to be able to upload TRS06 and earlier stuff, when there are alternatives such as the TPR Download Depot and free websites? Sure, there would probably not be the functionality to automatically find & download most of the dependencies for a layout, like there is on the DLS, but it should be up to the layout builder's responsibility to link people to all the third party dependencies required by the layout. Just as it is with DLS layouts that also require non-DLS dependencies. I'm not against petitioning, but do it the right way.
So please, guys. Please end this pointless argument between TC+ and TRS06/earlier users. It really is pointless. And if there are any of you TC+ users who are in denial of that fact, then don't post anything unless it's not criticizing us in any way about our opinion on the game versions. That's the right-minded way of doing it.
As for any users who say they may quit content creation if this problem does occur in September, please don't go. Upload your stuff to the TPR DL Depot or set up your own free website and upload there. Notify people of your new stuff and where to get it here on the forums, and just let life go on.
So let us just hope that Auran will muster up enough right-minded thinking to change their mind. We can protest, but no guarantee it will work. (Why is it that almost every company I ever see has greedy, selfish businesspeople running it?)
So there. This may seem like quite a large reply, but all I'm trying to do is to make some sense, and put a stop to the pointless arguing.
Regards.
gremlin1812
New member
“Scitimar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky15 View Post
Some clowns were even able to buy it off of Auran's online bargain bin up until less than two months ago. I'm sure it came with a warning about cutting off support for it shortly.
Dave......end quote
No legal requirement to do so that I'm aware of .”
G’Day again, I’m “to stupid or too lazy to check on the requirements for, or level of support they will receive for the software they intend to purchase”. I purchased Trainz Ultimate Collection on the 14 February 2010 FROM THE AURAN SHOP, there was NO indication in the information there as to the impending termination of support even though it was less than four weeks from the discovery of their announcement (buried on the wiki).
You cannot tell me that they did not know at that stage or well before and yes there is a requirement under the Trade Practices Act. Oh and by the way if you check in the neverfail shop you will find all of the soon to be unsupported Trainz versions for sale WITH NO WARNING still.
At this point I don’t give a damn, by September I will have all of the content that I need for my UTC, TRS2004 and TRS2006 and then me and my young bloke can have as much fun and enjoyment as we want. I would like to have TRS2010 but I am not going to buy something to just gather dust on the shelf, it has it’s flaws but there is loads of potential if Auran dose it right
. You never know by then I may have the PC to run it and any way I have supported them this year with a product purchase and an FCT.
Regards
Barrie
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky15 View Post
Some clowns were even able to buy it off of Auran's online bargain bin up until less than two months ago. I'm sure it came with a warning about cutting off support for it shortly.
Dave......end quote
No legal requirement to do so that I'm aware of .”
G’Day again, I’m “to stupid or too lazy to check on the requirements for, or level of support they will receive for the software they intend to purchase”. I purchased Trainz Ultimate Collection on the 14 February 2010 FROM THE AURAN SHOP, there was NO indication in the information there as to the impending termination of support even though it was less than four weeks from the discovery of their announcement (buried on the wiki).
You cannot tell me that they did not know at that stage or well before and yes there is a requirement under the Trade Practices Act. Oh and by the way if you check in the neverfail shop you will find all of the soon to be unsupported Trainz versions for sale WITH NO WARNING still.
At this point I don’t give a damn, by September I will have all of the content that I need for my UTC, TRS2004 and TRS2006 and then me and my young bloke can have as much fun and enjoyment as we want. I would like to have TRS2010 but I am not going to buy something to just gather dust on the shelf, it has it’s flaws but there is loads of potential if Auran dose it right
. You never know by then I may have the PC to run it and any way I have supported them this year with a product purchase and an FCT.Regards
Barrie
Retro00064
New member
Oh man. That makes me crack up almost every time I read it. :hehe:
I didn't miss a thing.
Ah , but I do realize , I simply don't care
Sci
Yes, you've made it very clear that you don't care.
Mike
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